Dem Post Mortem

[Derec]

This is a good, well balanced article from Bret Stephens (New York Times columnist). I lot of what I see from some of the liberals on this forum is reflected in this article

I posted this column before. He makes a lot of good points. It was not well received on here.

 

[Politesse]

I said no such thing.

Yes, you definitely said that we should not criticize "minorities" for their voting choices.

I did not.

 

[Derec]

No, being a token conservative for “balance” on the Times op-ed page doesn’t make him wrong. What makes him wrongs is being wrong.

You offered no arguments as to why Bret's analysis is wrong. You just bitched about how he does not offer Dems moving toward Bernie Sanders as a solution for their woes.

 

[Derec]

I did not.

Posts like this one certainly suggest otherwise:

Scapegoat, scapegoat, scapegoat. What minority is small enough and despised anough to safely deflect guilt for the loss of a national election onto? Someone who stayed home is more guilty than someone who actively voted in a dictator, apparently.

We just need to learn to hate more and better, that's what will win elections. Find someone everyone despises and fears.

 

[Politesse]

I did not.

Posts like this one certainly suggest otherwise:

Scapegoat, scapegoat, scapegoat. What minority is small enough and despised anough to safely deflect guilt for the loss of a national election onto? Someone who stayed home is more guilty than someone who actively voted in a dictator, apparently.

We just need to learn to hate more and better, that's what will win elections. Find someone everyone despises and fears.

Derec, excoriating the Democratic party for always seeking out minority scapegoats to blame for their electoral losses is entirely justified, because they do that every time, and it's shitty behavior that puts the lie to their claimed values. That doesn't mean anyone is above criticism for their voting choices, only that I'm sick and tired of the "liberal" hypocrisy represented by this perennial character fault (and dubious command of mathematics).

Even if I meant to suggest that minorities should never be criticized, as you are incorrectly intimating, it says more about your own bias than mine that "minority" is apparently a synonym for "non-white" in your mind. Given that I'm a member of just such a minoritized community and also white... there are other discriminated populations in the US and routinely targeted by Democrats for alleged misbehavior. Young people, for one obvious example key to understanding this particular election.

 

[Derec]

Derec, excoriating the Democratic party for always seeking out minority scapegoats to blame for their electoral losses is entirely justified, because they do that every time, and it's shitty behavior that puts the lie to their claimed values.

I have seen a lot of blame placed on white women in 2016 for example. But minorities should not be exempt from blame, especially when they make a big to-do about not voting for somebody because of ideological non-purity.

Should people like these not face their share of blame?

No matter their skin color, ethnolinguistic group, religion, sexual orientation or age.

That doesn't mean anyone is above criticism for their voting choices, only that I'm sick and tired of the "liberal" hypocrisy represented by this perennial character fault (and dubious command of mathematics).

When you say that "minorities" should not be blamed for their vote choices, only white people (whom you explicitly called out for supposed "biggotry"), than that's exactly what you are saying.

Even if I meant to suggest that minorities should never be criticized, as you are incorrectly intimating, it says more about your own bias than mine that "minority" is apparently a synonym for "non-white" in your mind.

Not necessarily, although in terms of race it does mean that in the US.
But Arabs are generally white and Dearbornistan voted for Trump and Jill Stein.

Given that I'm a member of just such a minoritized community and also white... there are other discriminated populations in the US and routinely targeted by Democrats for alleged misbehavior. Young people, for one obvious example key to understanding this particular election.

Every age group is technically a minority. Boomers, Gen Xers, Millennials, Zoomers - none of these command anywhere close to the majority of the vote.
What else? Sexual orientation? LGBT is certainly a minority. Is it a minority that is relevant here? Have a lot of LGBTs withhold a vote from Kamala Harris because she wasn't sufficiently ideologically pure? Then they deserve as much blame as straight people who did the same thing.

 

[thebeave]

This is a good, well balanced article from Bret Stephens (New York Times columnist). I lot of what I see from some of the liberals on this forum is reflected in this article

I posted this column before. He makes a lot of good points. It was not well received on here.

Indeed you did. I don't know how I missed it.

 

[thebeave]

No, being a token conservative for “balance” on the Times op-ed page doesn’t make him wrong. What makes him wrongs is being wrong.

You offered no arguments as to why Bret's analysis is wrong. You just bitched about how he does not offer Dems moving toward Bernie Sanders as a solution for their woes.

I have a hard time imagining someone as far to the left as Bernie ever being elected POTUS, given the US population is much more centered. And Kamala is as far to the left as Bernie, at least with regard to govtrack voting records. It was one of the reasons I was doubtful from the get-go about Kamala's chances. I think even Kamala knew deep down she was too far to the left for nationwide appeal, which was why she was so evasive and contradictory about her positions in the campaign.

 

[Politesse]

When you say that "minorities" should not be blamed for their vote choices, only white people (whom you explicitly called out for supposed "biggotry"), than that's exactly what you are saying.

I did not say that, you did.

 

[pood]

No, being a token conservative for “balance” on the Times op-ed page doesn’t make him wrong. What makes him wrongs is being wrong.

You offered no arguments as to why Bret's analysis is wrong. You just bitched about how he does not offer Dems moving toward Bernie Sanders as a solution for their woes.

What “argument” did good ol’ “Bret” make that you would like me to respond to?

He said mumble-mumble something-something about how tired Americans are of liberals. And the Times pays this guy good money to drool in the public prints?

I wonder if I submitted an essay to the Times contending that the reason Trump won is because this nation is chock-full of deeply repulsive and pig-ignorant people who are just like him, do you think the Times would print that in the interest of their precious “balance”?

 

[pood]

I did not.

Posts like this one certainly suggest otherwise:

Scapegoat, scapegoat, scapegoat. What minority is small enough and despised anough to safely deflect guilt for the loss of a national election onto? Someone who stayed home is more guilty than someone who actively voted in a dictator, apparently.

We just need to learn to hate more and better, that's what will win elections. Find someone everyone despises and fears.

Derec, excoriating the Democratic party for always seeking out minority scapegoats to blame for their electoral losses is entirely justified, because they do that every time, …

Every time? Name one.

It is not “scapegoating” anyone to criticize them for voting the way they did. For example, I was reading that a lot of people were voting to protect abortion rights in their states, while simultaneously voting for Trumo — the very person who made it possible to repeal those very rights they want to protect in the first place!

Telling such people “you are dumb asses” is not scapegoating.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Is “nothing wrong” also a rhetorical device of sorts? To clear up your strawman you propose another strawman?

It's not the strawman. Some on here refuse to acknowledge any mistakes by Harris campaign.

Ok. That’s not me nor have I seen that myself but perhaps I missed those posts.

 

[pood]

As of 2022, less than half (!) of Americans could name all three branches of government!

And these people vote!

Do these people think Biden controls the price of eggs at their supermarket? They probably do!

 

[pood]

Oh, this is nice. The Atlantic has its own thumb sucker online about the election. Guess who its writer scapegoats, inside the first three paragraphs? Ready?

“Hyper-online and overeducated [!!!] progressives,” and, naturally, Biden’s signing an executive order on the first day of his administration protecting the rights of the transgendered and those with different sexual orientations!

I stopped reading there, and went for the barf bag.

 

[pood]

I’d like to ask the undereducated idiot who wrote this piece for the Atlantic, what does “overducated” even mean? Is it even possible to be overeducated? Maybe we should stop people from attending school after the fifth grade, as the Taliban assholes do to girls in Afghanistan? Trump won not because of “overeducated” people, but because of pig-ignorant people!

And here is The Atlantic, which is aimed at literate and educated people, publishing this swill!

 

[Politesse]

The Atlantic has every reason to feel (secretly) pleased about the election results! Historically, Republican presidents have done wonders for their circulation, as the "liberal elites" look for sources of guidance through troubled times.

 

[pood]

The Atlantic has every reason to feel (secretly) pleased about the election results! Historically, Republican presidents have done wonders for their circulation, as the "liberal elites" look for sources of guidance through troubled times.

Not if they read that they are “overeducated,” according to The Atlantic.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I’d like to ask the undereducated idiot who wrote this piece for the Atlantic, what does “overducated” even mean? Is it even possible to be overeducated? Maybe we should stop people from attending school after the fifth grade, as the Taliban assholes do to girls in Afghanistan? Trump won not because of “overeducated” people, but because of pig-ignorant people!

And here is The Atlantic, which is aimed at literate and educated people, publishing this swill!

Overeducated means reading a book once in a while at this point.

 

[pood]

I looked up the writer. He’s very well educated. Go figure!

 

[pood]

We want a populace that reads nothing but comic books and the bible, and views online porn. That way we’ll elect Democrats, right?