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Dem Post Mortem

We want a populace that reads nothing but comic books and the bible, and views online porn. That way we’ll elect Democrats, right? :confused2:
Its a little disingenous to presume that its just the Republicans who are not educated. There is no shortage of poorly educated Democrats.

At 13 Baltimore City high schools, zero students tested proficient on 2023 state math exam

BALTIMORE (WBFF) — The latest round of state test results is raising alarm in Baltimore City Schools. Project Baltimore found that 40% of Baltimore City high schools, where the state exam was given, did not have any students score proficient in math. Not one student.

Baltimore has been strongly Democrat for decades, as has its elected leaders.
The American obsession with labelling everyone as Republican and Democrat is bizarre (especially regarding children). But let's play along; although this is a majority Democratic district, maybe all the Republican children were at these 40% of schools, wouldn't want them mingling with Democratic children would we? But this stat is suspicious anyway - not one student scored well at these schools? Not a single Sheldon Cooper or anyone even close at any of these schools? Also how can every maths teacher be so bad at all these schools? Did they graduate from Oklahoma? Also, despite the name 'Project Baltimore' is not some academic organization; it was created by Fox !!!! So definitely not an independent unbiased source. This is probably shoddy "investigation" and propaganda, not real research into education standards.
 
We want a populace that reads nothing but comic books and the bible, and views online porn. That way we’ll elect Democrats, right? :confused2:
Its a little disingenous to presume that its just the Republicans who are not educated. There is no shortage of poorly educated Democrats.

At 13 Baltimore City high schools, zero students tested proficient on 2023 state math exam

BALTIMORE (WBFF) — The latest round of state test results is raising alarm in Baltimore City Schools. Project Baltimore found that 40% of Baltimore City high schools, where the state exam was given, did not have any students score proficient in math. Not one student.

Baltimore has been strongly Democrat for decades, as has its elected leaders.
The American obsession with labelling everyone as Republican and Democrat is bizarre (especially regarding children). But let's play along; although this is a majority Democratic district, maybe all the Republican children were at these 40% of schools, wouldn't want them mingling with Democratic children would we? But this stat is suspicious anyway - not one student scored well at these schools? Not a single Sheldon Cooper or anyone even close at any of these schools? Also how can every maths teacher be so bad at all these schools? Did they graduate from Oklahoma? Also, despite the name 'Project Baltimore' is not some academic organization; it was created by Fox !!!! So definitely not an independent unbiased source. This is probably shoddy "investigation" and propaganda, not real research into education standards.
I enjoy a non USA opinion. My father told me if you are having a hard time solving something, get someone else to look at it. Worked for me many times.
 
It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.
I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.
It is president-elect Trump not president-elect Harris ergo Harris ran a poorer campaign than Trump.
I know it is hard to acknowledgement you lost to a clown and a buffoon but reality doesn't not care about your feelings.
Note that I also asked how do you run a campaign against a campaign like Trump's. Would you care to take a shot at answering?
See bottom half of post 206 where I jot down some comments.
I saw it. That's not what I asked of you. I asked how you would confront Trumpers to change their minds.

I will ask you again. How you would confront Trumpers to change their minds? What would YOU say?
 
It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.
I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.
It is president-elect Trump not president-elect Harris ergo Harris ran a poorer campaign than Trump.
I know it is hard to acknowledgement you lost to a clown and a buffoon but reality doesn't not care about your feelings.
Note that I also asked how do you run a campaign against a campaign like Trump's. Would you care to take a shot at answering?
See bottom half of post 206 where I jot down some comments.
I saw it. That's not what I asked of you. I asked how you would confront Trumpers to change their minds.

I will ask you again. How you would confront Trumpers to change their minds? What would YOU say?
You asked the question I italicised above. I took that to refer to Trump's latest (sadly successful) electoral campaign.
That is not necessarily the same as confronting Trump supporters. Trying to change someone's mind during an electoral campaign is most unlikely to be successful. Time is short, emotions are sometimes running hot etc. etc. It needs to be done before the campaign begins.
To which where you referring?
 
The Dems don't necessarily need to win over Maga voters; there are a lot of Americans out there who decided not to vote at all. Try to offer something those workers would vote for.
 
I’d like to ask the undereducated idiot who wrote this piece for the Atlantic, what does “overducated” even mean? Is it even possible to be overeducated? Maybe we should stop people from attending school after the fifth grade, as the Taliban assholes do to girls in Afghanistan? Trump won not because of “overeducated” people, but because of pig-ignorant people!

And here is The Atlantic, which is aimed at literate and educated people, publishing this swill!

Overeducated means reading a book once in a while at this point.
My understanding at this point is that it means "anyone both educated and intelligent enough to shut my arguments down with reason and logic in a way anyone with similar intelligence can validate".

Instead of forwarding reasonable ideas, the GOP floats emotional appeals and "-y" versions of science, education, and intelligence, things that "cargo cult" actual reason. This works because, and I hate to say this, most people derive their knowledge from social trust rather than vigorous applications of doubt. Sadly, this is true even for the majority of intelligent folks who get through academia: they trust their teachers and educators, trusting in yet more "priests" in a stranger church.

Sure, the doctrine is better because many are not really priests, but for most it's still just doctrine and dogma of a different flavor.

It is far easier to avoid ending up like that when someone only allows social elements to influence them a little bit, when society can only inform rather than steer. I would assume this is why, if you were to ever actually meet the majority of people who build our technology, there is going to be at least 1-3 "one in a thousand" atypical working among a team of 9 or fewer.

This is overrepresentation by a few orders of magnitude, and I expect similar rates among instructors of any social-agnostic subjects.

The social "trust" aspect of most people's "knowledge" has, in fact, been one of the most frustrating aspects of the majority of discussions I have on topics that interest me. This has consistently been the final reason that shuts down discussion: their trust combined with a distaste for verification, because verification is hard, and construed as a social attack.

And, the social effects of having someone doubt what you say are painful at times. Someone can be very easily made to have "egg on their face" when they trust and someone else verifies, or fails to. These kinds of situations lead to a fertile field for seeds of pettiness to grow into unearned hatred, especially for those with an excess of dubious knowledge and pride in their self-image as a "learned person".

Certainly it does help a little bit when those incapable of effectively doubting their knowledge at least have mostly accurate knowledge, but I think we should start recognizing as a society that this is the case for at MANY people.

We clearly need something like that, because it's impossible and impossibly costly to guarantee everyone is really learning to be educated rather than learning to be "religious" in some way. For what it's worth, blind trust in something true actually allows faster response to myriad situations -- verification takes time and effort every time, which is not generally going to be available.

What this really comes down to is that asshole speaking against those who are educated enough to see through his bullshit.
 
Looking at Summit County Ohio, 2020 and 2024. Obviously 2024 isn't 100% official yet, but it has to be close. Summit County is reliably blue, but not super dark blue as Cuyahoga County.
  • Trump has about the exact same number of votes as he did 2020. Harris is about 9000 votes behind Biden, or 7% or so.
  • 74% turnout in 2020, 71% turnout in 2024.
  • Emilia Sykes (OH-13) had more votes than Harris
    • This is really weird, both are Black Female incumbants. Sykes is a bit of local political family thing, but it is surprising that she'd get about 1,000 more votes than Harris. I'm uncertain the politics involved for voting for her, but not Harris.
  • Sherrod Brown got more votes than Harris, 5,000 or so..
 
It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.
I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.
It is president-elect Trump not president-elect Harris ergo Harris ran a poorer campaign than Trump.
I know it is hard to acknowledgement you lost to a clown and a buffoon but reality doesn't not care about your feelings.
Note that I also asked how do you run a campaign against a campaign like Trump's. Would you care to take a shot at answering?
See bottom half of post 206 where I jot down some comments.
I saw it. That's not what I asked of you. I asked how you would confront Trumpers to change their minds.

I will ask you again. How you would confront Trumpers to change their minds? What would YOU say?
You asked the question I italicised above. I took that to refer to Trump's latest (sadly successful) electoral campaign.
No, you confronted me because I called Trump voters derogatory names and said that's not how it should be done.

That is not necessarily the same as confronting Trump supporters. Trying to change someone's mind during an electoral campaign is most unlikely to be successful. Time is short, emotions are sometimes running hot etc. etc. It needs to be done before the campaign begins.
To which where you referring?
Okay. So now you have two tasks before you. You are still avoiding doing both, just criticizing.

Stop criticizing until you can demonstrate you can do better.
 
A little more data.

Looking at Virginia:
  • About the same number of votes for Senate and President
  • Kaine won by 372,000 votes
  • Harris won by 128,000 fewer votes
  • Kaine received 78,000 more votes than Harris
  • Trump received 50,000 more votes than Cao
Pennsylvania is weird:
  • There were roughly 175,000 more votes for President than Senate. A tick over 2.5% more votes.
  • While Harris underperformed Biden, she received more votes (34,000) than the incumbent Casey.
  • Trump received 141,000 more votes than McCormick.
  • Turnout was higher in 2024, but votes appeared to switch
 
A little more data.

Looking at Virginia:
  • About the same number of votes for Senate and President
  • Kaine won by 372,000 votes
  • Harris won by 128,000 fewer votes
  • Kaine received 78,000 more votes than Harris
  • Trump received 50,000 more votes than Cao
Pennsylvania is weird:
  • There were roughly 175,000 more votes for President than Senate. A tick over 2.5% more votes.
  • While Harris underperformed Biden, she received more votes (34,000) than the incumbent Casey.
  • Trump received 141,000 more votes than McCormick.
  • Turnout was higher in 2024, but votes appeared to switch
Don’t get my conspiracy theory brain started.
 
A little more data.

Looking at Virginia:
  • About the same number of votes for Senate and President
  • Kaine won by 372,000 votes
  • Harris won by 128,000 fewer votes
  • Kaine received 78,000 more votes than Harris
  • Trump received 50,000 more votes than Cao
Pennsylvania is weird:
  • There were roughly 175,000 more votes for President than Senate. A tick over 2.5% more votes.
  • While Harris underperformed Biden, she received more votes (34,000) than the incumbent Casey.
  • Trump received 141,000 more votes than McCormick.
  • Turnout was higher in 2024, but votes appeared to switch
Don’t get my conspiracy theory brain started.
Honestly isn't unreasonable to suspect something given Trump tried to overthrow the government. And constantly lied about voter fraud. We already know there's no low he and his cronies won't sink to.
 
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Looking at Summit County Ohio, 2020 and 2024. Obviously 2024 isn't 100% official yet, but it has to be close. Summit County is reliably blue, but not super dark blue as Cuyahoga County.
  • Trump has about the exact same number of votes as he did 2020. Harris is about 9000 votes behind Biden, or 7% or so.
  • 74% turnout in 2020, 71% turnout in 2024.
    • This is really weird, both are Black Female incumbants. Sykes is a bit of local political family thing, but it is surprising that she'd get about 1,000 more votes than Harris. I'm uncertain the politics involved for voting for her, but not Harris.
  • Sherrod Brown got more votes than Harris, 5,000 or so..
It is weird. Who would have figured black people are freethinkers and don't always pull the lever at the voting booth for the person with the matching skin color and gender?
 
Not to mention the $1 million bribery scheme Elon Musk was doing. And there's nothing shady about this election? Uh huh.
 
A little more data.

Looking at Virginia:
  • About the same number of votes for Senate and President
  • Kaine won by 372,000 votes
  • Harris won by 128,000 fewer votes
  • Kaine received 78,000 more votes than Harris
  • Trump received 50,000 more votes than Cao
Pennsylvania is weird:
  • There were roughly 175,000 more votes for President than Senate. A tick over 2.5% more votes.
  • While Harris underperformed Biden, she received more votes (34,000) than the incumbent Casey.
  • Trump received 141,000 more votes than McCormick.
  • Turnout was higher in 2024, but votes appeared to switch
Don’t get my conspiracy theory brain started.
This is an odd election because we have a lot of data for close races which included close Senate races (6 states). In general, Trump outperformed 2020, except Arizona, which will likely have him very close to what he got last election. In PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, it ranged between 1.7 and 5.5% more votes for President that Senate (I'm only comparing top two candidates, so there could be a +/- 0.x% pt error). Turnout was higher, in PA, MI, WI, NV by 0.6, 1.4, 3.7 and 2.9 percent points. Those numbers will inch up as well. VA and AZ were down, Arizona by nearly 7%!

I've got to imagine, if Trump were going to fix the election, he'd have tried harder in Arizona. Trump currently is down 12k votes in Arizona, Harris is down 203K from 2020.

What I can't possibly understand in Arizona is someone that votes Trump, but not Lake. Trump out polled Lake by 160k. Harris under polled Gallego by 87k, so there is a group of others who thought voting for a crazy man was enough to turn out... but not the crazy lady?

I think part of the answer to "what the fuck happened here" is is in Maricopa County, where Gallego is up 100k votes... but Trump won by 74k.
 
It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.
I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.
It is president-elect Trump not president-elect Harris ergo Harris ran a poorer campaign than Trump.
I know it is hard to acknowledgement you lost to a clown and a buffoon but reality doesn't not care about your feelings.
Note that I also asked how do you run a campaign against a campaign like Trump's. Would you care to take a shot at answering?
See bottom half of post 206 where I jot down some comments.
I saw it. That's not what I asked of you. I asked how you would confront Trumpers to change their minds.

I will ask you again. How you would confront Trumpers to change their minds? What would YOU say?
I'll try to answer the question you didn't ask me, for whatever that's worth.

For died in the wool Trumpites, it's hopeless. It's like talking to an angry brick wall covered in shit. These people aren't just low information voters, they're anti-information.

It's the Republicans (or Dems) who stayed home and/or are genuinely concerned about their party, but didn't see Harris as an option. You can talk to those people. Unfortunately, they seem to be small in number, so finding them is a problem. When you find those people though, you can find common ground and it turns out there are only a few things we disagree on, which has surprised me. Oftentimes they have a serious misunderstanding of what the Dems are trying to do.

This isn't the job of the average individual though. The Democratic party has the resources to seek them out and begin the conversation.
 
Not to mention the $1 million bribery scheme Elon Musk was doing. And there's nothing shady about this election? Uh huh.
Again, the media would have to be in on it as the results line up with the Exit polling. The results weren't outlandish either. Trump won by more than in 2016, but not by obscene amounts in the battlegrounds. There are a number of explanations for the result.

1) Inflation. People lost their minds over inflation.
2) Younger voters have no idea Trump is a fraud and has been a fraud for decades.
3) Proto-male / anti-immigration tact for minority voters.
4) Anti-Transgender ads

What is frustrating is that Trumps lie carry so much weight. Imagine Harris doing exactly what Trump did at McDonalds... or going to a White Evangelical church that was oddly enough filled with black supporters. The world just operates different for a sociopath.
 

What is frustrating is that Trumps lie carry so much weight. Imagine Harris doing exactly what Trump did at McDonalds... or going to a White Evangelical church that was oddly enough filled with black supporters. The world just operates different for a sociopath.
For Trump to get votes he had to get the toothpaste out of the tube. For Harris to get votes she had to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
 
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