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Democrats 2020

He was neither stupid nor used as a tool.

He was the only candidate from the left and many on the left wanted a voice.

Gore lost his own state and lost Florida due to political incompetence.

Nader had nothing to do with it.

Scapegoating Nader shows how lost a person is.

Still can't cope with the fact that you are as responsible for Iraq and the Great Recession as those who voted for Dubbya? Sorry, I can't help you with that. But maybe you can take your self righteous purity, put it in a blender, slug it down in one shot, and continue to delude yourself through the next election.

People not voting for Nader are responsible for those things too.

Nader would not have invaded and would have been better than Gore in regulating the banks.

All those bastards that didn't vote for Nader are traitors to the left.
 
Look, Sanders is too old. It isn't going to happen. And if he is the "compromise" candidate, who in the heck is the first choice?
That's Sanders' biggest problem. The dude is old. He'd be about 79 by the time he took office. If he won a second term he'd be 87 by the time he was done.
I agree. That's why I think that he and Joe Biden are too old and Elizabeth Warren is on the borderline.
I can't be the only one whose ever seen how rapidly and severely an elderly person can decline.

I happen to think that Sanders is what we need--he's a better candidate than anyone currently running. But a younger candidate with the same platform would be better.

Who that candidate is, I don't know. Kamala Harris seems to scare the piss out of the conservatards, so she might be the best bet.
They seem scared of *any* popular and successful Democrat. Consider the Clintons and the Obamas and AOC.

Did Sen. Kamala Harris Use an Affair With a Married Man to Launch Her Career? - Truth or Fiction? -- she had a brief affair with San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown early in his career, and right-wingers are running with it and saying that she slept her way to the top.
 
I agree. That's why I think that he and Joe Biden are too old and Elizabeth Warren is on the borderline.
I can't be the only one whose ever seen how rapidly and severely an elderly person can decline.

I happen to think that Sanders is what we need--he's a better candidate than anyone currently running. But a younger candidate with the same platform would be better.

Who that candidate is, I don't know. Kamala Harris seems to scare the piss out of the conservatards, so she might be the best bet.
They seem scared of *any* popular and successful Democrat. Consider the Clintons and the Obamas and AOC.

Did Sen. Kamala Harris Use an Affair With a Married Man to Launch Her Career? - Truth or Fiction? -- she had a brief affair with San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown early in his career, and right-wingers are running with it and saying that she slept her way to the top.
Geesh, that is a lot of sleeping around to get elected Senator.
 
I agree. That's why I think that he and Joe Biden are too old and Elizabeth Warren is on the borderline.
I can't be the only one whose ever seen how rapidly and severely an elderly person can decline.

I happen to think that Sanders is what we need--he's a better candidate than anyone currently running. But a younger candidate with the same platform would be better.

Who that candidate is, I don't know. Kamala Harris seems to scare the piss out of the conservatards, so she might be the best bet.
They seem scared of *any* popular and successful Democrat. Consider the Clintons and the Obamas and AOC.

Did Sen. Kamala Harris Use an Affair With a Married Man to Launch Her Career? - Truth or Fiction? -- she had a brief affair with San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown early in his career, and right-wingers are running with it and saying that she slept her way to the top.

Conservatives? Accusing a woman in power of slutting her way to the top of the company/government? I am shocked. Totally shocked.
 
Eh, I see him as just another cranky old white dude
To paraphrase AIDS Skrillex, "he's a fucking white male. A white male! And he is old!"
Race and gender should never be disqualifiers one way or another. Age could be an issue, given the facts of ageing.

with issues with sexism and racism.
He does not participate in the whole identity politics nonsense which is so fashionable in the Democratic Party right now. That makes him, ironically enough, a breath of fresh air.

Been there, done that almost my entire life. Done with that.
You must be really old. Identity politics has been fashionable among Democrats for decades.
 
Conservatives? Accusing a woman in power of slutting her way to the top of the company/government? I am shocked. Totally shocked.
Just because she is a woman should not mean she should be shielded from accusations of improper behavior.
If she used her sexual relationship with Brown to gain government jobs, that is corruption and fair game for attacks. Even if she was still in her 20s.
Certainly she gave Kavenaugh a lot of hell for his alleged behavior while he was still a minor. Surely her behavior when she was a young lawyer should not be off limits then.
 
I agree. That's why I think that he and Joe Biden are too old and Elizabeth Warren is on the borderline.
Exactly. Bernie at least tried. I think Biden is still kicking himself for not running in 2016. He could have won the nomination and would almost certainly have won the general vs. Trump.

Did Sen. Kamala Harris Use an Affair With a Married Man to Launch Her Career? - Truth or Fiction? -- she had a brief affair with San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown early in his career, and right-wingers are running with it and saying that she slept her way to the top.

I find it amazing how these supposed fact check sites carefully circumscribe the question so they get an answer favorable to their side. The issue is not if Brown helped her in 2003, but how much he helped her get appointed to state boards while she was a young ADA while they were fucking and there was a conflict of interest.

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All those bastards that didn't vote for Nader are traitors to the left.
Bush pulling a Nixon v. McGovern would have helped your side exactly how?
 
He was neither stupid nor used as a tool.
Not a tool?
Nader draws donations from Bush's supporters

He was the only candidate from the left and many on the left wanted a voice.
Gore was on the Left.
And nobody was denying leftists a voice. But having a voice and having a niche presidential candidate are quite different things.

Gore lost his own state and lost Florida due to political incompetence.
"His own state" is deep-red Tennessee where he hadn't lived for years.

Nader had nothing to do with it.
Nader had everything to do with Gore losing Florida.

Scapegoating Supporting Nader shows how lost a person is.
FIFY.
 
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If Bernie is your compromise candidate, who would be your wish candidate? AOC? Nicolas Maduro? Ghost of Che Guevara?
Any of them would be better than tRump.

Really? Che Guevara was an extremist communist who murdered his political opponents. Nicolas Maduro made a country with biggest oil reserves after Saudi Arabia into a basket-case with inflation rate of over 10,000% and shortages of all basic products. AOC is too young to have really screwed up, but hitherto her main accomplishments are a mishandled roll-out of the "Green New Deal" and running Amazon out of New York.
 
And there's a reason why his new slogan is "Not Me. Us".
Sounds familiar.
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What it means to vote for Bernie versus a go-getter who knows how to reach across the "isle" is the difference between people who admire the Yellow Vest movements happening in France and those who wish they would all just go home and vote for a moderate centrist who can appeal to both sides.

I do not think many of the Yellow Vests would like a Jew like Sanders anyway.
Anti-Semitic Taunts by Yellow Vests Prompt French Soul-Searching
 
Biden's not an idiot and he's not likely to be led by some misplaced sense of loyalty to his betters who want to tell him what to do.
I do not think McCain was an idiot either.

As for the rest--google it.

I will research her more if and when she gains some traction.
But I am still interested in some contradictory things you wrote. Like how you think she is Islamophobic but then also fault her for endorsing Keith Ellison, who is a Muslim.
Or how about you faulting her for endorsing a candidate not preferred by the bigwigs at DNC. Why is that a negative?

I think that she's new age-ier than any other new age nutcase I know--and I know more than a few.
I agree with you on that. Rejecting telescopes because of some superstitious hocus pocus is idiotic.
 
Thanks Derec, for bringing up the Yellow Vest movement and how it's declined into a sometimes violent, anti semitic, hateful bunch of hooligans. I rarely agree with you, but this time I do. I was gong to link some articles about it yesterday but never had the time. It worried me that one of our posters seemed to be advocating some type of revolution. At least that's what it seemed like to me. Perhaps I'm wrong and he can explain what he actually meant when he brought up the Yellow Vest movement. That's the last thing we need in our already terribly divided country. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all discuss politics in a rational way without attacking each other?

I fear if Bernie becomes president, we will see more chaos and incompetence. I don't see him as a person who would be able to get things done. He's good at stirring up his base, but his history doesn't give me much hope that he'd be able to accomplish much, especially because he appears to be someone that refuses to compromise. We don't need another president that always tries to get his own way. We need someone who is rational and understands the need to work well with people, not one who only wants to please his base. Haven't we learned anything from our current populist president? No, I'm not saying that Bernie is Trump but I do see both of them as having cult like followings.

Still, I would love to hear the details of Bernie's plans. That's what nobody has been able to explain, not even the candidate himself. You can't just yell that you want certain things to happen without a very well thought out detailed plan.
 
The problem that Bernie had with minorities in 2016 was specifically Black voters where HRC stomped him. Your graphs/links don't specify Black voters, just non-White or specific non-White voters that aren't Black.

Specifically black voters is literally the first graph I posted
 
And for the love of god can we please all shut about his supposed problem with minorities
You mean like how he lost the southern primaries?

Look, Sanders is too old. It isn't going to happen. And if he is the "compromise" candidate, who in the heck is the first choice?

Sometimes the only choice available is still a compromise.
 
Thanks Derec, for bringing up the Yellow Vest movement and how it's declined into a sometimes violent, anti semitic, hateful bunch of hooligans. I rarely agree with you, but this time I do. I was gong to link some articles about it yesterday but never had the time. It worried me that one of our posters seemed to be advocating some type of revolution. At least that's what it seemed like to me. Perhaps I'm wrong and he can explain what he actually meant when he brought up the Yellow Vest movement. That's the last thing we need in our already terribly divided country. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all discuss politics in a rational way without attacking each other?

I fear if Bernie becomes president, we will see more chaos and incompetence. I don't see him as a person who would be able to get things done. He's good at stirring up his base, but his history doesn't give me much hope that he'd be able to accomplish much, especially because he appears to be someone that refuses to compromise. We don't need another president that always tries to get his own way. We need someone who is rational and understands the need to work well with people, not one who only wants to please his base. Haven't we learned anything from our current populist president? No, I'm not saying that Bernie is Trump but I do see both of them as having cult like followings.

Still, I would love to hear the details of Bernie's plans. That's what nobody has been able to explain, not even the candidate himself. You can't just yell that you want certain things to happen without a very well thought out detailed plan.


As opposed to being bullshat to? You do realize that that is all moderate candidates do, right? They talk big and do little justifying their watered-down legislation as "compromise" so people who think this way will excuse them.

Those days are hopefully coming to a close and constituents, other than corporate constituents, are holding members accountable, not just for "getting something/anything done" but for confronting issues with meaningful legislation and questions that have teeth.

It's interesting as to why some of the newer members of Congress are questioning the status quo in congressional behavior while others who've been there for years "never thought" to ask.

Why is it that nobody other than a new member thought to grill Elliot Abrams about his past behavior and how it is relative to the current Venezuela issue? Because everyone is afraid of aleinating organisations and people for the sake of bipartianship and compromise. Some of these new members seem to be saying "no more". I'm liking what I'm seeing from these few members.
 
I agree. That's why I think that he and Joe Biden are too old and Elizabeth Warren is on the borderline.
If Sanders picks a younger VP that will mitigate the age issue, and if we're fortunate enough to get granny out of the speaker slot with someone without the corporate ties and with true conviction then it's win-win-win.
 
The problem that Bernie had with minorities in 2016 was specifically Black voters where HRC stomped him. Your graphs/links don't specify Black voters, just non-White or specific non-White voters that aren't Black.

Specifically black voters is literally the first graph I posted

I missed it when I first looked at the graph.
 
...
I fear if Bernie becomes president, we will see more chaos and incompetence. I don't see him as a person who would be able to get things done. He's good at stirring up his base, but his history doesn't give me much hope that he'd be able to accomplish much, especially because he appears to be someone that refuses to compromise. We don't need another president that always tries to get his own way. We need someone who is rational and understands the need to work well with people, not one who only wants to please his base. Haven't we learned anything from our current populist president? No, I'm not saying that Bernie is Trump but I do see both of them as having cult like followings.

Before Trump, people would accuse Obama supporters of having that cult-like behavior, but I don't think he ever inspired anyone to anger and hatred as much as Trump has. Sanders strikes me as far more willing to compromise than Trump, but his reluctance to compromise is one of the things that endears him most to his supporters. He knows how to speak to crowds, just as Obama did. I don't see quite the same fire behind Warren, O'Rourke, Harris, or any of the other front runner Democrats. Nevertheless, Sanders, despite his long political career, has a lackluster record of accomplishment. Like Trump, Sanders' charisma with the public does not carry over to respect and charisma with elected officials that he would need in order to win political battles in Congress. In fact, he has alienated a large number of would-be allies with his open support for primary challenges that ended up failing. Unlike Trump, Sanders just does not pose the same threat to moderate Democrats that Trump poses to moderate Republicans. Since 2016, opposition to Sanders within Democratic ranks has grown, but the majority of Democrats seem to want a candidate who can bring together their shaky coalition. So I will remain strongly opposed to his bid for the nomination during the primary season. If he should manage to win the nomination despite my sage advice to fellow Democrats, then I will enthusiastically support him against any Republican candidate. I will always vote for the lesser of two evils, if that is the choice I am faced with.
 
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