Democrats 2020

[Harry Bosch]

No they don't, but if they were rigging it now, Gabbard wouldn't register as a concern.

It's not like the 2016 primary campaign exists.

You know, at the time in 2016, I listened to the claims that things were “rigged,” and I followed the specific claims to the facts, and they just did not hold up. I kept trying to see what on earth they saw in data and it was not there. It was often clearly opposite. I started out as a Bernie supporter, sent money to his campaign. Over the course of the campaign I changed my mind, mostly due to Clinton’s impressive 11-hour testimony demonstrating her command of facts and leadership. But I did not condone any “rigging,” and therefore kept my eye out for it and actually cared about the charges of it.

And it was just never supported by facts.
The idea that Bernie, who got many of his delegates from the most restrictive possible voting rules (caucuses) was somehow cheated by restrictive voting rules is barren.

And yet people continue to believe that there was some “rigging” that kept the guy with fewer votes out of the nomination. And they have allowed themselves to wear a cloak of distrust about the system that damages their capacity to influence it to this day. They are still ready to sit out elections over a myth.

Totally agree. I blame the Russian bots! If Trump wins in 2020 it will because the democratic vote remains divided. So yea, the bots and the republicans are going to be promoting these conspiracy theories and anything else they can do to divide the dems.

 

[PyramidHead]

Totally agree. I blame the Russian bots! If Trump wins in 2020 it will because the democratic vote remains divided. So yea, the bots and the republicans are going to be promoting these conspiracy theories and anything else they can do to divide the dems.

 

[Elixir]

Agreed, except the gay comment. If Pete’s folks in South Bend can look past this, I’m sure Independents across the US can.

My apology for lack of clarity. I think he'd win if nominated, and would make anyone whose vote turns on someone else's sexual preference look like the fools they are. But at the head of the line of such fools, are the Democratic Party Elite. He can never get the nomination.

 

[ZiprHead]

And tax the rich out of existence! Without the rich, there will be no jobs, no new investment and America would be well on the way to a gigantic Venezuela or a Cuba, who by the way, Sanders deeply admired it's leader Fidel Castro!

Ever the fount of bullshit, aren't you.

Oh look what I found!

If you think Cuba is moving closer to democracy, I've got a swamp outside Havana to sell you. In the mind of Fidel Castro, it's just the opposite.

The former Cuban leader thinks the U.S. is moving closer to his regime.

Not only is he about to entertain a softened-up, legacy-seeking American president, he's having a bromance with a candidate he hopes will replace Barack Obama in January: Bernie Sanders.

Frail as he is at age 89, Fidel gave an impressive four-hour speech in October to a crowd of thousands in the Cuban capital, and the chief subject of his address was The Bern.

“Comrades, I speak before you today because I feel energized by this new America that is being born in front of our eyes ... Socialism is coming to America, and its name is Bernie Sanders, the new face of Socialism” he said to an exalted crowd.

“We have seen how Obama has brought universal health care to America, and now we have this presidential candidate, this Bernie Sanders, who in some way reminds me of my late friend Hugo Chavez in his will to bring Socialism to the American people.” By all accounts, he was speaking with passion.

We had a marginal tax rate of 90% in the fifties. Good to know how much like cuba we were.

 

[Treedbear]

Wall Street bankers threaten to back Trump if Democrats nominate Warren for 2020 election

Democratic donors on Wall Street and in big business are preparing to sit out the presidential campaign fundraising cycle — or even back President Donald Trump — if Sen. Elizabeth Warren wins the party’s nomination.

In recent weeks, CNBC spoke to several high-dollar Democratic donors and fundraisers in the business community and found that this opinion was becoming widely shared as Warren, an outspoken critic of big banks and corporations, gains momentum against Joe Biden in the 2020 race.

I was for Bernie until the last debate when he began to look very old. I became resigned to become a Warren supporter. But that little item certainly stokes my enthusiasm. If she pisses off Wall Street's big money that much it must mean she stands for real change and stands a real chance of beating Trump. I'm getting on-board with the school marm.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Wall Street bankers threaten to back Trump if Democrats nominate Warren for 2020 election

Democratic donors on Wall Street and in big business are preparing to sit out the presidential campaign fundraising cycle — or even back President Donald Trump — if Sen. Elizabeth Warren wins the party’s nomination.

In recent weeks, CNBC spoke to several high-dollar Democratic donors and fundraisers in the business community and found that this opinion was becoming widely shared as Warren, an outspoken critic of big banks and corporations, gains momentum against Joe Biden in the 2020 race.

I was for Bernie until the last debate when he began to look very old. I became resigned to become a Warren supporter. But that little item certainly stokes my enthusiasm. If she pisses off Wall Street's big money that much it must mean she stands for real change and stands a real chance of beating Trump. I'm getting on-board with the school marm.

Because he looked old at the last "debate"? That seems a tad shallow, no? Where's her funding coming from again? Real change how? One 80 some odd year old guy who answers only to KY voters can shut anything down single handedly. Warren will not take on the donor class, watch.

 

[PyramidHead]

Wall Street bankers threaten to back Trump if Democrats nominate Warren for 2020 election

Democratic donors on Wall Street and in big business are preparing to sit out the presidential campaign fundraising cycle — or even back President Donald Trump — if Sen. Elizabeth Warren wins the party’s nomination.

In recent weeks, CNBC spoke to several high-dollar Democratic donors and fundraisers in the business community and found that this opinion was becoming widely shared as Warren, an outspoken critic of big banks and corporations, gains momentum against Joe Biden in the 2020 race.

I was for Bernie until the last debate when he began to look very old. I became resigned to become a Warren supporter. But that little item certainly stokes my enthusiasm. If she pisses off Wall Street's big money that much it must mean she stands for real change and stands a real chance of beating Trump. I'm getting on-board with the school marm.

It's theatrics. As Biden continues to tank and it seems more and more plausible that either Bernie or Liz will take the nomination, the banker class is creating the impression that Liz is who they really don't want, when by any sane metric they would have much more to lose under a Bernie administration. They are counting on liberals responding to this in exactly the way you did, because in the end Liz is far less of a threat to them. It's called cutting your losses.

 

[PyramidHead]

You could not ask for a more perfect illustration of the three candidates than this paragraph

 

[Treedbear]

I was for Bernie until the last debate when he began to look very old. I became resigned to become a Warren supporter. But that little item certainly stokes my enthusiasm. If she pisses off Wall Street's big money that much it must mean she stands for real change and stands a real chance of beating Trump. I'm getting on-board with the school marm.

Because he looked old at the last "debate"? That seems a tad shallow, no?

I try not to be cynical in judging a person's abilities so I give them the benefit of the doubt when they represent hope for the future. But Biden looked too old from the beginning. I can see it in his thinning hair, pale complexion and a certain hollowing out of the temples that says he's turned the corner. Sanders had tremendous energy at first so I ignored other's warnings about his age. But I saw that dwindling in the second debate. I think he no longer has the stamina or agility. Warren looks fresh as a daisy in comparison and handles herself with poise and enthusiasm.

Where's her funding coming from again? Real change how? One 80 some odd year old guy who answers only to KY voters can shut anything down single handedly. Warren will not take on the donor class, watch.

See below, but of course a lot depends on the Senate turning Democrat.

...
“My plan not only bans lobbyists from making political contributions, it also bans them from bundling donations or hosting fundraisers for political candidates,” Warren said in her Medium post.

This plan represents the latest phase of an apparent shift from Warren, who accepted at least $95,000 from federally registered lobbyists during her campaigns for the U.S. Senate, according to records reviewed by CNBC.

Federal Election Commission filings and lobbying disclosure reports show that Warren accepted the money during the 2012 and 2018 Senate election cycles. The sum from lobbyists represents just a tiny fraction of the money she raised during those Senate campaigns. A $10.4 million transfer from her Senate political committee helped fund the early stages of Warren’s presidential campaign.

Since then, Warren has focused on appealing to small dollar donors. She raised $19 million in the second quarter with an average donation of $28 and has refused contributions from lobbyists. Many other primary contenders have followed her lead in not taking money from lobbyists. In the buildup to her run for president, Warren was a vocal critic of lobbyists.
...

That's what I'd call an admirable record.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Jason is convinced there is a conspiracy against Gabbard, while also believing only radicals would want to impeach Trump.

It's not like the Democratic Party has any sort of history with rigging the primaries. That never happens, right?

Given that the Democratic Party is half of an utterly corrupted and rigged system, your point seems a tad insufficient and limited in scope.

 

[Treedbear]

I was for Bernie until the last debate when he began to look very old. I became resigned to become a Warren supporter. But that little item certainly stokes my enthusiasm. If she pisses off Wall Street's big money that much it must mean she stands for real change and stands a real chance of beating Trump. I'm getting on-board with the school marm.

It's theatrics. As Biden continues to tank and it seems more and more plausible that either Bernie or Liz will take the nomination, the banker class is creating the impression that Liz is who they really don't want, when by any sane metric they would have much more to lose under a Bernie administration. They are counting on liberals responding to this in exactly the way you did, because in the end Liz is far less of a threat to them. It's called cutting your losses.

I'm not so interested in punishing the banker class as you seem to be. I just want them held within bounds. I take the view that they consider Warren to be the plausible threat.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

It is not so much as "punishing" the banking class so much as reining in their abuses, and adequately monitoring their activities. and dealing with too big to fail situations. Re-enacting curbs on activities that put this nation at risk from crap like the housing crisis of 2008 that nearly dragged us into a depression.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

I try not to be cynical in judging a person's abilities so I give them the benefit of the doubt when they represent hope for the future. But Biden looked too old from the beginning. I can see it in his thinning hair, pale complexion and a certain hollowing out of the temples that says he's turned the corner. Sanders had tremendous energy at first so I ignored other's warnings about his age. But I saw that dwindling in the second debate. I think he no longer has the stamina or agility. Warren looks fresh as a daisy in comparison and handles herself with poise and enthusiasm.

Where's her funding coming from again? Real change how? One 80 some odd year old guy who answers only to KY voters can shut anything down single handedly. Warren will not take on the donor class, watch.

See below, but of course a lot depends on the Senate turning Democrat.

How so when "both" parties serve the same donor class? We got "here" over decades of the people waiting on the system to live up to the rhetoric and self correct. No one party or swapping out personalities will deal with the situation, that's folly. Revisit the Powell Memorandum and the Trilateral Commission's publication "A Crisis of Democracy". There's nothing wrong with the system, it's working as designed.

Member how "fresh" Obama felt? Yeah well, there ya go, go pick someone who makes you feel better, try that one moe'gin.

 

[Treedbear]

I try not to be cynical in judging a person's abilities so I give them the benefit of the doubt when they represent hope for the future. But Biden looked too old from the beginning. I can see it in his thinning hair, pale complexion and a certain hollowing out of the temples that says he's turned the corner. Sanders had tremendous energy at first so I ignored other's warnings about his age. But I saw that dwindling in the second debate. I think he no longer has the stamina or agility. Warren looks fresh as a daisy in comparison and handles herself with poise and enthusiasm.

Where's her funding coming from again? Real change how? One 80 some odd year old guy who answers only to KY voters can shut anything down single handedly. Warren will not take on the donor class, watch.

See below, but of course a lot depends on the Senate turning Democrat.

How so when "both" parties serve the same donor class? We got "here" over decades of the people waiting on the system to live up to the rhetoric and self correct. No one party or swapping out personalities will deal with the situation, that's folly. Revisit the Powell Memorandum and the Trilateral Commission's publication "A Crisis of Democracy". There's nothing wrong with the system, it's working as designed.

Member how "fresh" Obama felt? Yeah well, there ya go, go pick someone who makes you feel better, try that one moe'gin.

Well you could just refuse to vote and see where that gets ya.

 

[Treedbear]

It is not so much as "punishing" the banking class so much as reining in their abuses, and adequately monitoring their activities. and dealing with too big to fail situations. Re-enacting curbs on activities that put this nation at risk from crap like the housing crisis of 2008 that nearly dragged us into a depression.

And reinstating Glass-Steagal -

The Wall Street Journal surveyed the Senate Banking Committee and only one senator on the panel, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.), ​voiced support for reviving the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial and investment banking before it was repealed in 1999. Ms. Warren has reintroduced a bill reinstating the law.​

 

[Fentoine Lum]

It is not so much as "punishing" the banking class so much as reining in their abuses, and adequately monitoring their activities. and dealing with too big to fail situations. Re-enacting curbs on activities that put this nation at risk from crap like the housing crisis of 2008 that nearly dragged us into a depression.

Being fought tooth-n-nail-n-billions by the substantial people.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

It is not so much as "punishing" the banking class so much as reining in their abuses, and adequately monitoring their activities. and dealing with too big to fail situations. Re-enacting curbs on activities that put this nation at risk from crap like the housing crisis of 2008 that nearly dragged us into a depression.

And reinstating Glass-Steagal -

The Wall Street Journal surveyed the Senate Banking Committee and only one senator on the panel, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.), ​voiced support for reviving the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial and investment banking before it was repealed in 1999. Ms. Warren has reintroduced a bill reinstating the law.​

And the Wall Street Journal's position on this? How about Jeff Bezos' WashPo position?

 

[PyramidHead]

I was for Bernie until the last debate when he began to look very old. I became resigned to become a Warren supporter. But that little item certainly stokes my enthusiasm. If she pisses off Wall Street's big money that much it must mean she stands for real change and stands a real chance of beating Trump. I'm getting on-board with the school marm.

It's theatrics. As Biden continues to tank and it seems more and more plausible that either Bernie or Liz will take the nomination, the banker class is creating the impression that Liz is who they really don't want, when by any sane metric they would have much more to lose under a Bernie administration. They are counting on liberals responding to this in exactly the way you did, because in the end Liz is far less of a threat to them. It's called cutting your losses.

I'm not so interested in punishing the banker class as you seem to be. I just want them held within bounds. I take the view that they consider Warren to be the plausible threat.

That's the difference between the two candidates in a nutshell. When Warren talks about her plans, she frames it as speaking to the manager of a restaurant because the service wasn't up to par. When Bernie talks about our movement, it gets people asking whether billionaires should even exist. Incremental reformism versus structural change. Asking for a loaf of bread knowing you'll only get half versus asking for a slice without realizing you'll probably get crumbs.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

How so when "both" parties serve the same donor class? We got "here" over decades of the people waiting on the system to live up to the rhetoric and self correct. No one party or swapping out personalities will deal with the situation, that's folly. Revisit the Powell Memorandum and the Trilateral Commission's publication "A Crisis of Democracy". There's nothing wrong with the system, it's working as designed.

Member how "fresh" Obama felt? Yeah well, there ya go, go pick someone who makes you feel better, try that one moe'gin.

Well you could just refuse to vote and see where that gets ya.

Were I to select that option, that would put me with half of my fellow countrymen in refusing to accept the lessor of two evils, which is still evil. When a 16 year old kid from Sweden will step up to reality and my entire political system is too cucked to do so? Yeah sorry, I'm not down with your/its concentration camps either. The notion that voting = representation is pure unadulterated bullshit in american society.

 

[Treedbear]

I'm not so interested in punishing the banker class as you seem to be. I just want them held within bounds. I take the view that they consider Warren to be the plausible threat.

That's the difference between the two candidates in a nutshell. When Warren talks about her plans, she frames it as speaking to the manager of a restaurant because the service wasn't up to par. When Bernie talks about our movement, it gets people asking whether billionaires should even exist. Incremental reformism versus structural change. Asking for a loaf of bread knowing you'll only get half versus asking for a slice without realizing you'll probably get crumbs.

I'm not in favor of eliminating billionaires per se. I believe in capitalism. But we don't have capitalism when large segments of society have no hope of ever having enough wealth in order to invest in opportunities when they become available. Which is what capitalism actually means. So redistribution or whatever else it takes so that everyone has that opportunity sometime in their adult lives. The call to eliminate billionaires is attacking the symptom. I'm not in favor of socialism. The left has been duped by the right into accepting their definition of the term. It's a straw man. It's gaslighting. And I'm tired of having to defend whatever it means to be a democratic socialist.