Deregulation and greed leads to massive pollution dump in river

[Axulus]

If only we could take out profit and greed and add more regulation and government inspection, this never would've happened.

(CNN) The mustard hue of the Animas River in Colorado -- the most visible effect of a mistake by the Environmental Protection Agency that dumped millions of gallons of pollutants into the water -- is striking.

Just a glance at a photo of the orange-yellowish slush is enough to know that something seems wrong. Scientists will have to say just how wrong, and possibly dangerous, the contamination is, though five days after the spill answers are few.

Just how polluted is the river? Is drinking water in peril? Are businesses dependent on the river out of luck?

One question that has been answered is the size of the spill: more than triple than originally estimated. The U.S. Geological Survey reported the size of the spill to be more than 3 million gallons, compared with the initial EPA estimate of 1 million gallons.

The EPA, which caused the accidental release of the contaminants Wednesday, said it continues to monitor the river.

Oh, shit! Nevermind

 

[ksen]

no link?

 

[braces_for_impact]

 

[laughing dog]

An outcome might be the result of a
1) direct knowledgeable choice,
2) unforseen circumstance,
3) mistake,
4) preventable accident, or
5) an unpreventable accident.

This seems to be the case of #3

According to the EPA, the spill occurred when one of its teams was using heavy equipment to enter the Gold King Mine, a suspended mine near Durango. Instead of entering the mine and beginning the process of pumping and treating the contaminated water inside as planned, the team accidentally caused it to flow into the nearby Animas River.

Which is different than #1. In addition, they were cleaning up the pollution caused by private activity.

So why is OP conflating an accident with deliberative choices, etc...?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

If only we could take out profit and greed and add more regulation and government inspection, this never would've happened.

The EPA owned and operated the Gold King Mine and was the primary cause of the original contamination?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What a crock of bullshit!

On Wednesday, an EPA-supervised cleanup crew accidentally breached a debris dam that had formed inside the Gold King Mine, shuttered since 1923, sending a yellow-orange sludge leaking into the Animas River.

A mistake was made and this happened accidentally. The OP wants to try and imply that stupid regulations or who the fuck knows what led to this mistake. The rivers aren't burning any more. There must be some level of progress thanks to the EPA.

 

[ksen]

No jimmy, there's not.

 

[KeepTalking]

If only we could take out profit and greed and add more regulation and government inspection, this never would've happened.

(CNN) The mustard hue of the Animas River in Colorado -- the most visible effect of a mistake by the Environmental Protection Agency that dumped millions of gallons of pollutants into the water -- is striking.

Just a glance at a photo of the orange-yellowish slush is enough to know that something seems wrong. Scientists will have to say just how wrong, and possibly dangerous, the contamination is, though five days after the spill answers are few.

Just how polluted is the river? Is drinking water in peril? Are businesses dependent on the river out of luck?

One question that has been answered is the size of the spill: more than triple than originally estimated. The U.S. Geological Survey reported the size of the spill to be more than 3 million gallons, compared with the initial EPA estimate of 1 million gallons.

The EPA, which caused the accidental release of the contaminants Wednesday, said it continues to monitor the river.

Oh, shit! Nevermind

Which regulation was it again that caused this?

 

[SimpleDon]

If only we could take out profit and greed and add more regulation and government inspection, this never would've happened.

(CNN) The mustard hue of the Animas River in Colorado -- the most visible effect of a mistake by the Environmental Protection Agency that dumped millions of gallons of pollutants into the water -- is striking.

Just a glance at a photo of the orange-yellowish slush is enough to know that something seems wrong. Scientists will have to say just how wrong, and possibly dangerous, the contamination is, though five days after the spill answers are few.

Just how polluted is the river? Is drinking water in peril? Are businesses dependent on the river out of luck?

One question that has been answered is the size of the spill: more than triple than originally estimated. The U.S. Geological Survey reported the size of the spill to be more than 3 million gallons, compared with the initial EPA estimate of 1 million gallons.

The EPA, which caused the accidental release of the contaminants Wednesday, said it continues to monitor the river.

Oh, shit! Nevermind

Do you have a point or are you just confused again?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If only we could take out profit and greed and add more regulation and government inspection, this never would've happened.



Oh, shit! Nevermind

Do you have a point or are you just confused again?

I think the point is EPA 1 v Industry 100... let's call it even.

Coal ash spill (2008)

The TVA Kingston Fossil Plant coal fly ash slurry spill occurred just before 1 a.m. on Monday December 22, 2008, when an ash dike ruptured at an 84-acre (0.34 km²) solid waste containment area at the Tennessee Valley Authority's Kingston Fossil Plant in Roane County, Tennessee, USA. 1.1 billion US gallons (4,200,000 m³) of coal fly ash slurry was released.

Oil Spill (2010)

The US Government estimated the total discharge at 4.9 million barrels (210 million US gal; 780,000 m³).

Chemical Spill (2014)

The spill began on Thursday, January 9, 2014 when up to 7,500 US gallons (28,000 litres; 6,200 imperial gallons) of crude MCHM leaked from a one-inch hole in the bottom of a stainless steel storage tank capable of holding 40,000 US gallons (150,000 litres; 33,000 imperial gallons) and its containment area at Freedom Industries' Charleston facility.

 

[SimpleDon]

Do you have a point or are you just confused again?

I think the point is EPA 1 v Industry 100... let's call it even.

Coal ash spill (2008)

The TVA Kingston Fossil Plant coal fly ash slurry spill occurred just before 1 a.m. on Monday December 22, 2008, when an ash dike ruptured at an 84-acre (0.34 km²) solid waste containment area at the Tennessee Valley Authority's Kingston Fossil Plant in Roane County, Tennessee, USA. 1.1 billion US gallons (4,200,000 m³) of coal fly ash slurry was released.

Oil Spill (2010)

The US Government estimated the total discharge at 4.9 million barrels (210 million US gal; 780,000 m³).

Chemical Spill (2014)

The spill began on Thursday, January 9, 2014 when up to 7,500 US gallons (28,000 litres; 6,200 imperial gallons) of crude MCHM leaked from a one-inch hole in the bottom of a stainless steel storage tank capable of holding 40,000 US gallons (150,000 litres; 33,000 imperial gallons) and its containment area at Freedom Industries' Charleston facility.

I worked in the mining industry and was a certified MSHA (The mining safety and health administration) trainer. If auxlus is confused by mining regulations and the need for them I am the one to ask.

If he believes that the mining industry in this country doesn't require government oversight I can clear that confusion up for him.

If he believes that the EPA intentionally breach that silt dam I can help set him straight.

I just need to know what is confusing him today, what was his reason for posting this in the way that he did it.

 

[ksen]

Even though he probably didn't mean it, Axulus' headline is unironically correct . . . just not in the way he thinks it is.

 

[SimpleDon]

The mining industry is openly hostile to any government regulation. They produce a commodity whose price has nothing to do with the costs of mining it.

If they were producing a product, say cement, the costs to meet government regulation would be pretty much the same for all of the cement producers and over a relatively short time the price of cement will increase to compensate for the added costs of the regulations.

But the price of a commodity like gold won't increase to compensate for the costs of regulations. The costs to meet the regulations will cut their profits.

This is also why auxlus' dream of a self-regulating mining industry forced to clean up their run off by the simplistic mechanism of supply and demand setting prices is so ridiculous.

And I suspect why he no longer uses it as an argument against regulation.

 

[SimpleDon]

Almost no gold is produced these days out of shaft mines like this one. Most gold is produced as a secondary operation to another mining operation, say an open pit copper mine in which they can get gold also out of the copper ore. Or because we are much better at freeing the gold out of ore now many operations are mining their slag piles. Reprocessing the slag waste with the more efficient processes that we have today to claim the gold that was missed before.

 

[bilby]

Almost no gold is produced these days out of shaft mines like this one. Most gold is produced as a secondary operation to another mining operation, say an open pit copper mine in which they can get gold also out of the copper ore. Or because we are much better at freeing the gold out of ore now many operations are mining their slag piles. Reprocessing the slag waste with the more efficient processes that we have today to claim the gold that was missed before.

That rather depends where you are; In places like the USA, all the easy stuff is long gone. But in less accessible parts of the world, there is still plenty of high grade ore in the ground.

This report from last week was produced by Crater Gold Mining Limited, who have been prospecting the Crater Mountain region of Papua New Guinea for a few years, and have just recently begun mining operations at their Nevera prospect.

The mining at that site is cheap and simple, due to the high quality of the ore; the reason it has not previously been developed is the lack of transport infrastructure - The mountainous jungle of central PNG is only now becoming accessible to ground vehicles and heavy equipment.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What a crock of bullshit!

On Wednesday, an EPA-supervised cleanup crew accidentally breached a debris dam that had formed inside the Gold King Mine, shuttered since 1923, sending a yellow-orange sludge leaking into the Animas River.

A mistake was made and this happened accidentally. The OP wants to try and imply that stupid regulations or who the fuck knows what led to this mistake. The rivers aren't burning any more. There must be some level of progress thanks to the EPA.

You ---->
<--- The point

The point of his post s that the EPA just did what is normally blamed on capitalist greed. In other words, greed must not be the automatic reason to blame.

 

[Axulus]

What a crock of bullshit!


A mistake was made and this happened accidentally. The OP wants to try and imply that stupid regulations or who the fuck knows what led to this mistake. The rivers aren't burning any more. There must be some level of progress thanks to the EPA.

You ---->
<--- The point

The point of his post s that the EPA just did what is normally blamed on capitalist greed. In other words, greed must not be the automatic reason to blame.

Exactly. This is pretty much the only accurate thing in this thread so far - it was written to counter those who automatically blame greed whenever a private business is responsible along with the automatic kneejerk response of more government oversight and regulation as the solution that will prevent it.

Surprise surprise - even your government angels can seriously fuck up the environment.

 

[bilby]

You ---->
<--- The point

The point of his post s that the EPA just did what is normally blamed on capitalist greed. In other words, greed must not be the automatic reason to blame.

Exactly. This is pretty much the only accurate thing in this thread so far - it was written to counter those who automatically blame greed whenever a private business is responsible along with the automatic kneejerk response of more government oversight and regulation as the solution that will prevent it.

Surprise surprise - even your government angels can seriously fuck up the environment.

Ahh. So it is just another stupid PD thread that presents a strawman argument for the entertainment of those who support a particular political dogma. Got it.

You know, we should ask RayJ to set up a filter to detect such pointless threads, and allow them to be automatically ignored. Of course, that would massively decrease the traffic to this forum, so maybe it's not such a great idea.

NEWSFLASH - An overwhelming majority of the people who support the regulation of businesses by the government are aware that government bodies are capable of error. Perhaps it would make you look less foolish if, before posting a thread like this, you considered that fact, and reconsidered the value in posting at all.

 

[Juma]

What a crock of bullshit!


A mistake was made and this happened accidentally. The OP wants to try and imply that stupid regulations or who the fuck knows what led to this mistake. The rivers aren't burning any more. There must be some level of progress thanks to the EPA.

You ---->
<--- The point

The point of his post s that the EPA just did what is normally blamed on capitalist greed. In other words, greed must not be the automatic reason to blame.

Why would EPA need to do anything with the mine at all? Where is the guys that created the mine?

 

[Axulus]

Exactly. This is pretty much the only accurate thing in this thread so far - it was written to counter those who automatically blame greed whenever a private business is responsible along with the automatic kneejerk response of more government oversight and regulation as the solution that will prevent it.

Surprise surprise - even your government angels can seriously fuck up the environment.

Ahh. So it is just another stupid PD thread that presents a strawman argument for the entertainment of those who support a particular political dogma. Got it.

You know, we should ask RayJ to set up a filter to detect such pointless threads, and allow them to be automatically ignored. Of course, that would massively decrease the traffic to this forum, so maybe it's not such a great idea.

NEWSFLASH - An overwhelming majority of the people who support the regulation of businesses by the government are aware that government bodies are capable of error. Perhaps it would make you look less foolish if, before posting a thread like this, you considered that fact, and reconsidered the value in posting at all.

Once again, you have failed to comprehend what is written.