DeSantis signs bill requiring FL students, professors to register political views with state

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't think that it is any university's job to ensure that ANY student never feel discomfort in a classroom. One of the major points of education is to expose students to different ideas, to different ways of thinking, and to THINK. There is and should be some discomfort in that process.

Sure. But I never suggested otherwise. If 20% of students feel uncomfortable expressing ideas in class and there is no variation by political ideology, it may be just their personality. But if students of one particular political stripe perceive an environment hostile to their beliefs, and the university has contributed to that environment, that is a problem.

Sure, that'd be a problem. What classes even provide this opportunity in College though?

Any class where discussion of the material is an aspect?

So you don't actually know.

And it certainly appears to be begging the question, instead of actually showing a truth.

Non. To beg the question is to assume the conclusion in your premises. I haven't assumed any conclusion.

I wasn't aware you were the collective right-wing in America.

For decades the right-wing has been hostile to colleges. Call graduates elites (despite most Government folk umm... being Ivy Leaguers). Back in the 80s, being "elite" meant that you merely had book smarts, not real world smarts. So college educated people that saw issues with bad ideas were simply uninformed on how "things really work".

Anti-education attitudes from the right-wing continued to expand. The public school system became targeted. They were accused of "liberal indoctrination". These were always vague claims made at the label level, never actually being demonstrated across a systematic plan. In the last decade, there have been individual cases of teachers going about teaching certain aspects the wrong way (against white people... this was never an issue if done with no ill intent against minority students).

In the '00s and '10s, the state of Texas began using their book buying influence to influence how content is presented in text books. Today, young children are being "coached" into sexual behavior according to the alt-right.

Today, parents are putting 4 year old boys on YouTube and Twitter and asking them to explain what 'non-binary means to them', in order to virtue signal to others how accepting and progressive they are.

You commonly watch YouTube videos with 4 year old boys in them?

Teachers are being labeled as predators now. A state Government in meddling in collegiate education (not administration, but education) because of alleged partisan attitudes that have never been demonstrated.

A State government investigating whether a taxpayer-funded institution creates a systematically hostile environment for certain groups is not 'meddling'--it is responsible government.

Thanks for not bothering to read a single thing I discussed, and again putting this individual thing into a bottle and pretending it has no relation to the war against education the right-wing has been fighting since the 80s in America.

Partisan attitudes in higher education are not 'alleged'. They are quite real.

Partisan attitudes leading to indoctrination and the stifling of education in college indeed is alleged. Teachers having opinions has never been in doubt.

But, how could partisan attitudes be demonstrated if you refuse to investigate whether they exist?

Well, the right-wing has been making these claims without evidence for decades now. So it can't be that hard.

You can pretty much believe what you want in colleges, however, you have to prove your work.

Of course you can believe what you want. Nobody has the apparatus yet to stop people's thoughts. Believing what you want isn't the issue.

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

 

[Elixir]

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

Why are so many right wingers a CWOT?
Does some native love of authoritarianism do that to them, or does conservotardation mold them into the unresponsive, dishonest brokers in conversation that we see here?

 

[TomC]

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

Why are so many right wingers a CWOT?
Does some native love of authoritarianism do that to them, or does conservotardation mold them into the unresponsive, dishonest brokers in conversation that we see here?

I had to Google "CWOT" to have a clue about the meaning.

Unsurprisingly, it turned out that nothing in this post is anything but a CWOT insult.
How leftist.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

I don't think that it is any university's job to ensure that ANY student never feel discomfort in a classroom. One of the major points of education is to expose students to different ideas, to different ways of thinking, and to THINK. There is and should be some discomfort in that process.

Sure. But I never suggested otherwise. If 20% of students feel uncomfortable expressing ideas in class and there is no variation by political ideology, it may be just their personality. But if students of one particular political stripe perceive an environment hostile to their beliefs, and the university has contributed to that environment, that is a problem.

Sure, that'd be a problem. What classes even provide this opportunity in College though?

Any class where discussion of the material is an aspect?

So you don't actually know.

Your reading comprehension is quite poor. I answered your question. But, to be more specific and drawing on my own experience of university: in law classes, English classes, psychology classes.

And it certainly appears to be begging the question, instead of actually showing a truth.

Non. To beg the question is to assume the conclusion in your premises. I haven't assumed any conclusion.

I wasn't aware you were the collective right-wing in America.

I'm not.

For decades the right-wing has been hostile to colleges. Call graduates elites (despite most Government folk umm... being Ivy Leaguers). Back in the 80s, being "elite" meant that you merely had book smarts, not real world smarts. So college educated people that saw issues with bad ideas were simply uninformed on how "things really work".

Anti-education attitudes from the right-wing continued to expand. The public school system became targeted. They were accused of "liberal indoctrination". These were always vague claims made at the label level, never actually being demonstrated across a systematic plan. In the last decade, there have been individual cases of teachers going about teaching certain aspects the wrong way (against white people... this was never an issue if done with no ill intent against minority students).

In the '00s and '10s, the state of Texas began using their book buying influence to influence how content is presented in text books. Today, young children are being "coached" into sexual behavior according to the alt-right.

Today, parents are putting 4 year old boys on YouTube and Twitter and asking them to explain what 'non-binary means to them', in order to virtue signal to others how accepting and progressive they are.

You commonly watch YouTube videos with 4 year old boys in them?

No.

Teachers are being labeled as predators now. A state Government in meddling in collegiate education (not administration, but education) because of alleged partisan attitudes that have never been demonstrated.

A State government investigating whether a taxpayer-funded institution creates a systematically hostile environment for certain groups is not 'meddling'--it is responsible government.

Thanks for not bothering to read a single thing I discussed, and again putting this individual thing into a bottle and pretending it has no relation to the war against education the right-wing has been fighting since the 80s in America.

You set the precedent for not bothering to read a single thing written.

Partisan attitudes in higher education are not 'alleged'. They are quite real.

Partisan attitudes leading to indoctrination and the stifling of education in college indeed is alleged. Teachers having opinions has never been in doubt.

First, 'indoctrination' is a strawman. The bill has the motivation behind it written into it. And the bill seeks to investigate allegations. What a shocking concept!

But, how could partisan attitudes be demonstrated if you refuse to investigate whether they exist?

Well, the right-wing has been making these claims without evidence for decades now. So it can't be that hard.

I'll answer the question for you: if these surveys discover a problem, then there will be evidence there is a problem. But not having a survey does not mean there is no problem. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You can pretty much believe what you want in colleges, however, you have to prove your work.

Of course you can believe what you want. Nobody has the apparatus yet to stop people's thoughts. Believing what you want isn't the issue.

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

It's like you go straight to dehumanisation and insinuations of pedophilia when you can't answer a statement.

 

[Metaphor]

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

Why are so many right wingers a CWOT?
Does some native love of authoritarianism do that to them, or does conservotardation mold them into the unresponsive, dishonest brokers in conversation that we see here?

Guys, I really don't need more evidence that people on the left, when they are in a majority, can create a hostile environment for anybody who dares disagree with them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That is a dumb question, as Loren Pechtel isn't remotely a socialist, he is a conservative moderate. Always has been. He appears a lot more liberal these days only because people on the hyper partisan right have just gone bonkers. He is our board's Bill Maher or sorts, minus the comedy.

I don't know Bill Maher, but I'm pretty close to what the Republicans used to be but haven't been for quite some time now. The modern QOP is something to be feared, not supported.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While my memory isn't too good, Loren's positions on rights, economics, police, ... just about everything ... are about where they were when I first joined. I think what differentiates him from the alt-right is that his positions are based on principles and philosophies, not politics.

The partisan right has veered so hard into insanity, they are defending positions that would have been indefensible 30 years ago. In other words, they have radicalized.

Slight objection--they've been going nuts for longer than that. It's just been a slow process, it wasn't as obvious at first. And I would say virtually every change that has happened to the Republicans in the last 50 years is something I disagree with. The modern QOP is 3 stops past barking and shares little more than a name with what they used to be.

 

[lostone]

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

Why are so many right wingers a CWOT?
Does some native love of authoritarianism do that to them, or does conservotardation mold them into the unresponsive, dishonest brokers in conversation that we see here?

Guys, I really don't need more evidence that people on the left, when they are in a majority, can create a hostile environment for anybody who dares disagree with them.

Would you deny that people on the Right, when they are in the majority, and frequently, even when they are not, create a hostile environment for anyone who dares to disagree with them? That Florida is actively trying to create such an environment?

 

[Elixir]

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

Why are so many right wingers a CWOT?
Does some native love of authoritarianism do that to them, or does conservotardation mold them into the unresponsive, dishonest brokers in conversation that we see here?

I had to Google "CWOT" to have a clue about the meaning.

Unsurprisingly, it turned out that nothing in this post is anything but a CWOT insult.
How leftist.
Tom

Waddya mean? You just admitted - you learned something. In fact you were so elated with that new knowledge, you felt compelled to reply!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Loren used to call himself a libertarian. I recall arguing with him about what an insane world 'libertopia' would be. It would be now very difficult to call him a libertarian with a straight face.

Note that I consider myself a moderate libertarian. A lot of libertarians try to take it too far.

I support a gentle approach to government--things like a pollution tax rather than pass/fail emissions limits. Pass/fail systems suffer a big problem of figuring out what's possible and at what price and provides a disincentive to trying to figure out how to reduce pollution. A tax means you're always better off reducing pollution and there's no issue of whether the regulators got it right.

I do recognize there is a legitimate role for government in managing interactions, you don't have an unlimited right to do what you want on your own land because certain things inherently spill over onto other land.

 

[lostone]

In large parts of the US, it is risky to even express leftist points of view.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In large parts of the US, it is risky to even express leftist points of view.

This. The far right doesn't fear showing itself in leftist areas. The left fears showing itself in far right areas.

 

[Elixir]

In large parts of the US, it is risky to even express leftist points of view.

This. The far right doesn't fear showing itself in leftist areas. The left fears showing itself in far right areas.

I keep sayin’ … they gots the guns and trump gave them orders to use them.

 

[Metaphor]

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

Why are so many right wingers a CWOT?
Does some native love of authoritarianism do that to them, or does conservotardation mold them into the unresponsive, dishonest brokers in conversation that we see here?

Guys, I really don't need more evidence that people on the left, when they are in a majority, can create a hostile environment for anybody who dares disagree with them.

Would you deny that people on the Right, when they are in the majority, and frequently, even when they are not, create a hostile environment for anyone who dares to disagree with them?

No, I wouldn't deny it. I am pointing out that the left heavily outweighs the right in US academia, and that when a certain view is orthodoxy, it can create a hostile environment for people with unorthodox views.

That Florida is actively trying to create such an environment?

I deny that Florida is actively trying to create a right-wing orthodoxy in Florida universities nor could the legislation in question achieve that.

 

[Metaphor]

In large parts of the US, it is risky to even express leftist points of view.

This. The far right doesn't fear showing itself in leftist areas. The left fears showing itself in far right areas.

Are you aware of the asymmetry you baked into that sentence?

You compared the far right going into leftist areas but the left going into far right areas.

And I've seen what the far left is willing to do at protests.

 

[Jarhyn]

Loren used to call himself a libertarian. I recall arguing with him about what an insane world 'libertopia' would be. It would be now very difficult to call him a libertarian with a straight face.

Note that I consider myself a moderate libertarian. A lot of libertarians try to take it too far.

I support a gentle approach to government--things like a pollution tax rather than pass/fail emissions limits. Pass/fail systems suffer a big problem of figuring out what's possible and at what price and provides a disincentive to trying to figure out how to reduce pollution. A tax means you're always better off reducing pollution and there's no issue of whether the regulators got it right.

I do recognize there is a legitimate role for government in managing interactions, you don't have an unlimited right to do what you want on your own land because certain things inherently spill over onto other land.

I would propose not a tax exactly, but an insurance upon which rates go up with liability and overall risk in the pool.

That way, bigger abusers end up escalating the cost of their liability to the point where the liability exceeds the price of fixing themselves.

 

[lostone]

In large parts of the US, it is risky to even express leftist points of view.

This. The far right doesn't fear showing itself in leftist areas. The left fears showing itself in far right areas.

Are you aware of the asymmetry you baked into that sentence?

You compared the far right going into leftist areas but the left going into far right areas.

And I've seen what the far left is willing to do at protests.

I have seen nothing like the January 6 insurrection from the left.

 

[lostone]

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

Why are so many right wingers a CWOT?
Does some native love of authoritarianism do that to them, or does conservotardation mold them into the unresponsive, dishonest brokers in conversation that we see here?

Guys, I really don't need more evidence that people on the left, when they are in a majority, can create a hostile environment for anybody who dares disagree with them.

Would you deny that people on the Right, when they are in the majority, and frequently, even when they are not, create a hostile environment for anyone who dares to disagree with them?

No, I wouldn't deny it. I am pointing out that the left heavily outweighs the right in US academia, and that when a certain view is orthodoxy, it can create a hostile environment for people with unorthodox views.

That Florida is actively trying to create such an environment?

I deny that Florida is actively trying to create a right-wing orthodoxy in Florida universities nor could the legislation in question achieve that.

Then you being deliberately delusional.

 

[Metaphor]

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

Why are so many right wingers a CWOT?
Does some native love of authoritarianism do that to them, or does conservotardation mold them into the unresponsive, dishonest brokers in conversation that we see here?

Guys, I really don't need more evidence that people on the left, when they are in a majority, can create a hostile environment for anybody who dares disagree with them.

Would you deny that people on the Right, when they are in the majority, and frequently, even when they are not, create a hostile environment for anyone who dares to disagree with them?

No, I wouldn't deny it. I am pointing out that the left heavily outweighs the right in US academia, and that when a certain view is orthodoxy, it can create a hostile environment for people with unorthodox views.

That Florida is actively trying to create such an environment?

I deny that Florida is actively trying to create a right-wing orthodoxy in Florida universities nor could the legislation in question achieve that.

Then you being deliberately delusional.

That is your opinion.

 

[lostone]

It is like if you can twist a statement and respond out of context, you get a pellet fed to you.

Why are so many right wingers a CWOT?
Does some native love of authoritarianism do that to them, or does conservotardation mold them into the unresponsive, dishonest brokers in conversation that we see here?

Guys, I really don't need more evidence that people on the left, when they are in a majority, can create a hostile environment for anybody who dares disagree with them.

Would you deny that people on the Right, when they are in the majority, and frequently, even when they are not, create a hostile environment for anyone who dares to disagree with them?

No, I wouldn't deny it. I am pointing out that the left heavily outweighs the right in US academia, and that when a certain view is orthodoxy, it can create a hostile environment for people with unorthodox views.

That Florida is actively trying to create such an environment?

I deny that Florida is actively trying to create a right-wing orthodoxy in Florida universities nor could the legislation in question achieve that.

Then you being deliberately delusional.

That is your opinion.

As is your own