Deutsche Bank has Trump’s taxes — and loan applications cosigned by Russian oligarchs: report

[Jimmy Higgins]

Which, ironically, tends to prove that as a clandestine method of communication, this one is (so far) perfect.

Goodness, I'm flashing back to apologetic threads.

That's non-sequitur. Just because "we" don't currently or readily or conclusively know does not necessarily translate into having "no way of determining it." Indeed, you point to one in the next sentence:

it is a dead end... unless you can get a cipher...

Harder codes have been cracked--Enigma comes to mind--and there were plenty of naysayers in the highest orders claiming the exact same things about how we could never crack it, because it wasn't about the machine itself; it was about the code, which the Germans kept changing.

The code, if there is one, hasn't been broken, and I'm not aware of anyone trying to break it. Now I'm flashing back to Sean Hannity saying there has to be proof that Hussein's WMDs went to Syria... because there are a lot of documents.

*snip*

Again, if this were an isolated event, it would STILL be suspicious, but it's NOT an isolated event and quite literally directly correlates to Aven's clearly fraudulent testimony.

So, Aven lied about what he was tasked to do by Putin and the Trump Organization lied about their relationship with Cendyn. So we need to look to Cendyn (and hopefully already are in regard to the FBI or Congressional investigations that are still ongoing).

That didn't actually present a case for what happened.. the what is an important part of a criminal trial. Also, this is being investigated?

And ultimately, as I said, there is almost nothing known about the connection

If there is "almost nothing known about the connection," then the "server stuff" cannot be a "dead end."

Just because you have a dead body doesn't mean you have a murder conviction in hand. You are making with the cart and horse here. Coming up with hypotheticals doesn't equate evidence.

It is the first step in any investigation. You are essentially saying that unless I have a smoking gun, there is (a) no smoking gun and (b) no point in continuing to look for one.

I'm saying you are acting like a conviction is imminent when a grand jury hasn't even been called in.

 

[barbos]

Goodness, I'm flashing back to apologetic threads.

Yeah, who is the official fallacy expert on this forum? wait a second.... it's Koysi!!!!!

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

What we have so far:
1. DNS can not be used in the way Koysi described

Utterly false.

2. Trump Server did not belong to Trump Organization

Conjecture and irrelevant. It's like saying that one affiliated company is not accessible by another affiliated company.

3. Timeline is completely fucked up,

Aven's asserted timeline, but as I conclusvely established, Aven was lying and/or deliberately misleading in his testimony while at the same time providing just enough information to easily establish a correlative timeline.

4. There are tons of

Whataboutism and therefore irrelevant.

which don't leave any detectable traces.

Contradiction. You can't both claim that the "traces" we do have are not evidence of a secret channel and at the exact same time point out that the "traces" in this channel are undetectable and thereby establish that it would be a perfect secret channel.

Simplest would be anonymous skype accounts using public WiFi, botnets untraceable, private messaging on some obscure forums like IIDB, facebook/twitter/instagram can be used in 100% undetectable fashion .

And we know the Russians did in fact use other such technologically based systems, but for other things, so, again, stuff your tireless reliance on whataboutism.

5. Mueller is not an idiot to not confirm Aven's testimony with other testimonies

We don't know that he did not. The very fact that he presented what Aven testified to, however, is proof that he found it significant enough to include in the report. He ALSO made clear in his own testimony that he was neither confirming nor denying other investigations into Alfa bank, which is his way of confirming that there are, in fact, other investigations into Alfa bank that are still ongoing (as also evidenced by the redactions in Aven's testimony).

Koy's theory

Is not so much a theory as it is a hypothesis that is supported by tenuous evidence, fully and repeatedly granted, but thank you once again for making so much of a stink about it, because, once again, any time you get your hackles up the rest of us know it has to be hitting close to the bone.

 

[barbos]

Whataboutism and therefore irrelevant.

That's very curious thing for you to say. You do misuse fallacies often but not so ridiculously wrong.
Something is definitely not right here.

Aven's asserted timeline, but as I conclusvely established, Aven was lying and/or deliberately misleading in his testimony while at the same time providing just enough information to easily establish a correlative timeline.

Riiiight

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Goodness, I'm flashing back to apologetic threads.

Surely you can easily see that arguing on the one hand that something can't be used as a secret communications channel because it's not "secret" and then in the same breath contradicting that equivocation by pointing out it looks like a normal event is relevant to this particular discussion. The whole point of trying to send a secret message is to do so in a manner that does not look like it's secret.

Remember that this activity was found by "happenstance" and only because a group of computer scientist nerds decided to take a look after it was revealed that Russia had hacked the DNC. They were, in fact, checking both candidates' traffic under the assumption that the Russians were just doing a general attack on the election and not specifically trying to put Trump into the WH.

And the further binary idiocy of pointing out that it was, in fact found and therefore not a perfect "secret channel" is just too stupid to contemplate. It's not secret because it was found.

Not that you said that, but just to cover that nonsense as well.

The code, if there is one, hasn't been broken, and I'm not aware of anyone trying to break it.

And you're somehow the definitive answer on this question? If you, personally, aren't aware of something, then it isn't happening? WTF?

So, Aven lied about what he was tasked to do by Putin and the Trump Organization lied about their relationship with Cendyn. So we need to look to Cendyn (and hopefully already are in regard to the FBI or Congressional investigations that are still ongoing).

That didn't actually present a case for what happened.

What didn't? Me presenting a case for what happened and how Aven's testimony bolsters my case?

the what is an important part of a criminal trial.

Mueller's report was not a criminal trial. It is a blueprint for Congress to impeach and as such includes all of the most relevant pieces of information--impartially--that Mueller and his team felt important to note. Such as Aven's clearly bullshit testimony.

Also, this is being investigated?

So far as anyone knows, yes as, once again, bolstered by the fact that Mueller--in his testimony, not in the report--made specific note that he was neither affirming nor denying that it was under investigation, which means, imo, it's under investigation. Plus, Aven's testimony is redacted so that also evidences ongoing investigations.

I'm saying you are acting like a conviction is imminent

Be less concerned about how you think I am or am not "acting."

I have consistently and repeatedly conceded that I am making a speculative hypothesis and providing the evidence I have so far been able to find to support that hypothesis, nothing more. Obviously if I am presenting evidence, I consider that evidence to be supporting my argument.

 

[barbos]

I must admit I really enjoy this train-wreck

 

[Elixir]

I must admit I really enjoy this train-wreck

Then you belong in a home for the easily amused.

 

[barbos]

I must admit I really enjoy this train-wreck

Then you belong in a home for the easily amused.

I understand why are you not

 

[Elixir]

I must admit I really enjoy this train-wreck

Then you belong in a home for the easily amused.

I understand why are you not

Good. Then wake me up if you ever get interesting or substantive.

 

[barbos]

I understand why are you not

Good. Then wake me up if you ever get interesting or substantive.

Wow, that's some high grade irony here.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Wow, that's some high grade irony here.

Emphasis added.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And you're somehow the definitive answer on this question? If you, personally, aren't aware of something, then it isn't happening? WTF?

If the FBI announced today that they were investigating this, I'd be shocked. I don't think I'd be the only one. I haven't heard anything about this anywhere since it came out. Do you have info indicting this is still being investigated? <--- that's an honest question.

Also, this is being investigated?

So far as anyone knows, yes as, once again, bolstered by the fact that Mueller--in his testimony, not in the report--made specific note that he was neither affirming nor denying that it was under investigation, which means, imo, it's under investigation. Plus, Aven's testimony is redacted so that also evidences ongoing investigations.

That's a stretch.

I have consistently and repeatedly conceded that I am making a speculative hypothesis and providing the evidence I have so far been able to find to support that hypothesis, nothing more. Obviously if I am presenting evidence, I consider that evidence to be supporting my argument.

You are putting a lot of energy into this "speculative hypothesis", which implies you think it is well beyond just "speculative".

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Do you have info indicting this is still being investigated? <--- that's an honest question.

And I've provided several honest answers already which I believe indicate it is still being investigated and/or has been investigated, but the full conclusions have not yet been revealed. You consider those answers to be a "stretch."

You are putting a lot of energy into this

Once again, how you decide to personally assess my "effort" is not a relevant observation. You should know by now that this is the same amount of effort I put into anything I take seriously. Until this thread, I had not read Aven's testimony in the Mueller report, but considering everything I posted here, it certainly changes things with regard to the Alfa bank part of this cluster fuck.

There simply is no other logical explanation for why Aven lied and made up such a ludicrous cover story. If Putin wanted to talk to the President Elect of any nation, let alone the US, all he'd have to do is bark at his assistant to "Get Trump on the phone." End of story. And since we know Putin orchestrated the whole attack to begin with, we know he absolutely knew every single person in Trump's orbit at all times, so the idea of Aven claiming:

Aven also testified that Putin spoke of the difficulty faced by the Russian government in getting in touch with the incoming Trump Administration. According to Aven, Putin indicated that he did not know with whom formally to speak and generally did not know the people around the President-Elect

Is pure horseshit. But, regardless, Putin most certainly would never have needed the CEO of Russia's largest private bank to do jack shit, including the nonsense about sanctions. That would likewise be Putin's job to negotiate as a head of state, not a private Russian citizen corporate suit living in Russia. What the hell could a private banker do to stop the United States from imposing sanctions, let alone the President Elect? The President Elect couldn't do shit about Obama and/or Congress imposing sanctions, so of what possible use would it be for Aven to call Trump and why the fuck would Putin be sooooo adamant about Aven calling Trump that he kept asking Aven about the progress for several quarters (that's a span of six to nine months)?

So all of that is simply smoke and doesn't even have anything to do with what Aven then lets slip is the actual task (or, the initial task), which was to set up a secret communications channel between Trump and Putin, having nothing to do with Aven and/or non-existent sanctions.

So you tell me. Aven first claims that, after the election was over, Putin wanted him to contact Trump's transition team in order to somehow protect against sanctions that did not yet exist against Aven's bank and the reason it has to be Aven and not Putin is because Putin doesn't even know anyone in Trump's orbit. Pointless and horseshit. But then that story gets morphed into setting up a secret communications channel between Trump and Putin. Those are two entirely different tasks, one having nothing to do with the other.

And, again, completely unnecessary since the leader of Russia--or any nation--could, once again, simply call the President Elect any damn time they wanted to. No need for a "secret communications channel." Just pick up the damn phone and call him.

So what is all of that smoke hiding? That's the only reason to chum smoke to begin with, to hide something. So what facts do we have from his testimony? He made a point about how he meets every quarter one-on-one with Putin (as well as in a separate group meeting). We know he was tasked with setting up a secret communications channel between Putin and Trump. We know he's the president/owner/CEO whatever of Alfa bank, a private bank, not a state-owned bank (and therefore anything he would do would be held to separate account than if it were an official state-sanctioned act). And we know, by "happenstance," that there was all of this suspicious, apparently human-driven activity going on between two of Alfa bank's servers and one tied to the Trump Organization ONLY during the most crucial stages of the election, with it significantly increasing in activity the closer we got to the actual vote.

Again, even if all of that were the ONLY suspicious elements in any of this dumpster fire they would merit deeper scrutiny. When you factor in all of the OTHER technology driven warfare the Russians did (and the fact that it spans years before Trump ever announced; indeed the Cendyn connection evidently started in 2013, which is the same year Trump inexplicably decides to hold the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow and the most likely time when Putin "activated" his long-groomed asset to set this plan into motion, though the Steele dossier has it going even further back to 2008).

Regardless, once you rule out Aven's bullshit cover story, you're left with him being tasked to create a secret communications channel between candidate Trump and Putin during the election first and foremost. What happens after the election would only be a logical extension of what Putin had initially tasked him to do and/or part of another cover story (one designed to cover Aven's earlier tracks, since by that point it was well established that the entire Intelligence community of the US, Britain and the EU had all discovered and were already investigating Putin's attack).

Regardless, there is no other valid explanation for Aven's lies, so if you think you've got one, by all means.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do you have info indicting this is still being investigated? <--- that's an honest question.

And I've provided several honest answers already which I believe indicate it is still being investigated and/or has been investigated, but the full conclusions have not yet been revealed. You consider those answers to be a "stretch."

You have provided nothing but fragments of evidence indicating there is an investigation on-going regarding the servers.

You are putting a lot of energy into this

Once again, how you decide to personally assess my "effort" is not a relevant observation...

I'm not putting any more time into this. You are repeating what you've already said. The bottom line is the FBI originally concluded that the server behavior had potentially an innocuous behavior and there is no solid evidence suggesting the FBI is investigating this anymore. Everything else is speculation that leads us down a dead end because no one can derive any information from the potential communication. There is no where else to go. You are waiting Godot.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

You have provided nothing but fragments of evidence indicating there is an investigation on-going regarding the servers.

No shit. What are you saying, that I must and can only provide the Lord God Almighty stating, "THIS IS OBJECTIVELY TRUE"?

Everything else is speculation

AGAIN, I have repeatedly conceded this fact long before you irrelevantly repeated it.

Koy: I readily admit that this is my speculation and a hypothesis, not a theory.
Jimmy: You are speculating.
Koy: I know, I just said that.
Jimmy: It is speculation.
Koy: I know.
Jimmy: You are speculating.
Koy: That's not a counter argument or a relevant observation.

The bottom line is the FBI originally concluded that the server behavior had potentially an innocuous behavior

What you just said is that the FBI could not conclude one way or another about the activity. "Potentially an innocuous behavior" is not a definitive conclusion.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

And this is just to reiterate Aven's cover story is bullshit. From the exhaustively researched Moscow Project (emphasis mine):

A total of 272 contacts between Trump’s team and Russia-linked operatives have been identified, including at least 38 meetings. And we know that at least 33 high-ranking campaign officials and Trump advisers were aware of contacts with Russia-linked operatives during the campaign and transition, including Trump himself. None of these contacts were ever reported to the proper authorities. Instead, the Trump team tried to cover up every single one of them.
...
September 2015: Sometime during or after September 2015, Trump’s personal attorney Michael Cohen “[reached] out to gauge Russia’s interest” in a meeting between Trump and Putin. The sentencing memo for Cohen does not specify the means by which Cohen reached out or specifically to whom he reached out.
...
September 24, 2015: Rtskhiladze emailed Cohen about the Trump Tower Moscow deal. The email included a draft of a letter from the Trump Organization to the Mayor of Moscow, and Rtskhiladze explained “[w]e need to send this letter to the Mayor of Moscow (second guy in Russia) he is aware of the potential project and will pledge his support.”
September 24, 2015: Cohen emailed Rtskhiladze, asking “what is this?” in reference to the letter.
September 24, 2015: Rtskhiladze emailed Cohen, saying he would “explain all at 3.”
September 24, 2015: Cohen emailed Rtskhiladze, saying he would need the letter translated.
September 24, 2015: Rtskhiladze emailed Cohen again, providing a translation of the letter which stated that the Trump Tower Moscow deal would represent a stronger relationship between the U.S. and Russia.
September 27, 2015: Rtskhiladze emailed Cohen again, suggesting that the Trump Organization work with a company controlled by a Russian architect on the Trump Tower Moscow deal.
September 29, 2015: Dmitry Chizhikov emailed Cohen, passing along a letter from Rozov “and the presentation on [Rozov’s] company.” Chizhikov identified himself as Rozov’s “financial advisor and the person who deals with his overseas projects.”
October 9, 2015: Sater emailed Cohen saying he would be “meeting with Andrey Molchanov on Wednesday to do Trump Moscow on his site. Best biggest site in Moscow. His stepfather was Gov of St. Petersburg and Putin worked for him.” The email contained a link to Molchanov’s Forbes
October 10, 2015: Rtskhiladze emailed Cohen, saying “FYI residential center of Moscow in doing w my local partners I was telling you about.”
October 12, 2015: Sater emailed Cohen, telling him that “VTB Bank President and Chairman Andrey Kostin was on board to fund the project.”
October 13, 2015: An individual by the name of Dmitry Chizhikov emailed Sater a copy of the Trump Tower Moscow letter of intent that had been signed by Rozov, asking him to have Trump sign it. Sater then passed the signed letter to Cohen.
October 28, 2015: Trump signed the letter of intent, addressed to Rozov and I.C. Expert, for the Trump Tower Moscow deal. Cohen emailed the letter back to Rozov on November 2, 2015.
November 3, 2015: Sater emailed Cohen, saying he was headed to the Bahamas “to spent 8 days with [Rozov]” (in various documents Rozov’s first name is spelled both as Andrei and Andrey.) The email also states, “a very close person & partner to Putins closest friend, partner and advisor who has been with Putin since teenage years his friend and partner (on the largest shopping center in Moscow) is flying in to the private island in the Bahamas Andrey rented next week. Everything will be negotiated and discussed not with flunkies but with people who will have dinner with Putin and discuss the issues and get a go ahead.”
November 16, 2015: Lana Erchova, who was married at the time to Russian businessman Dmitry Klokov, emailed Ivanka Trump on behalf of her husband “to offer Klokov’s assistance to the Trump Campaign.”
November 18-19, 2015: Klokov and Cohen “had at least one telephone call and exchanged several emails.”
November 18, 2015: Klokov emailed Cohen, recommending that he visit Russia.
November 18, 2015: Cohen copied Ivanka on this email.
November 18, 2015: Klokov emailed Cohen, agreeing that if Trump were going to visit Russia, it would be an informal visit.
November 18, 2015: Klokov emailed Cohen, suggesting that he separate the business negotiations from the potential plan for Trump to meet a “person of interest” in Moscow. This “person of interest” was identified by Klokov’s wife as Putin.
November 19, 2015: Klokov emailed Cohen, emphasizing that this “person of interest” was critical.
...
January 11, 2016: Cohen attempted to email Russian president Vladimir Putin’s top spokesperson Dmitry Peskov. The email reportedly did not go through because of an incorrect email address.
January 14, 2016: Cohen emailed Peskov—the equivalent of the White House press secretary—at the Kremlin asking for assistance the Trump Tower Moscow deal. The Kremlin originally confirmed that it received the email but stated that it did not reply.
...
January 25, 2016: While working on the Trump Tower Moscow deal, Cohen received a letter from Russian mortgage tycoon Andrey Ryabinskiy, inviting him to Moscow “for a working visit.”
February 2016: Ukrainian politician Andrii V. Artemenko allegedly spoke with Cohen and Sater about a Ukrainian peace plan “at the time of the primaries, when no one believed that Trump would even be nominated.” This peace plan, which was ultimately delivered to then-national security adviser Michael Flynn, involved lifting U.S. sanctions on Russia. The Ukrainian ambassador to the United States noted that the plan could have been “pitched or pushed through only by those openly or covertly representing Russian interests.”
...
January 22, 2016: Cohen took a call with a former GRU officer about the Trump Tower Moscow deal.
January 22, 2016: Sater then emailed Cohen saying “it’s all set.”
January 25, 2016: While working on the Trump Tower Moscow deal, Cohen received a letter from Russian mortgage tycoon Andrey Ryabinskiy, inviting him to Moscow “for a working visit.”
February 2016: Ukrainian politician Andrii V. Artemenko allegedly spoke with Cohen and Sater about a Ukrainian peace plan “at the time of the primaries, when no one believed that Trump would even be nominated.” This peace plan, which was ultimately delivered to then-national security adviser Michael Flynn, involved lifting U.S. sanctions on Russia. The Ukrainian ambassador to the United States noted that the plan could have been “pitched or pushed through only by those openly or covertly representing Russian interests.”
February 29, 2016: Goldstone emailed Trump Jr. and Graff stating that Aras Agalarov asked Goldstone to “pass on his congratulations” to Trump and that Agalarov wanted to offer “his support and that of many of his important Russian friends and colleagues.” Emin Agalarov was copied on the email. The email contained a letter addressed to Trump from Aras Agalarov stating “all of us at Crocus Group follow with great interest your bright electoral campaign. On the eve of Super Tuesday we would like to wish you success in winning this major ballot.”
...
March 30, 2016: Trump’s former Deputy Campaign Chairman and aide Rick Gates emailed Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian-Ukrainian political operative and former member of Russian intelligence, materials related to Manafort’s involvement in the Trump campaign “for translation and dissemination.”
March 31, 2016: New York banker Robert Foresman “began reaching out to Graff to secure an in-person meeting with candidate Trump. According to Foresman, he had been asked by Anton Kobyakov, a Russian presidential aide involved with the Roscongress Foundation, to see if Trump could speak at the Forum.” Foresman was introduced to Graff over the phone through Trump business associate Mark Burnett.
Late March 2016: After their phone introduction, Foresman emailed Graff as part of his attempt to pass along an overture from a Russian presidential aide.
...
Spring 2016: Sometime after meeting Polonskaya, Papadopoulos “spoke over Skype” with her. For the purposes of this report, one Skype contact between Papadopoulos and Polonskaya is counted, although this is a conservative estimate.
April 10, 2016: Papadopoulos emailed Polonskaya, saying that he was a Trump adviser.
April 11, 2016: Manafort corresponded with Kilimnik, asking if Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska had seen news coverage of Manafort joining the Trump campaign.
April 11, 2016: Kilimnik replied to Manafort’s email, saying “absolutely.”
April 11, 2016: Manafort emailed him again, asking “How do we use to get whole?”
April 11, 2016: Polonskaya emailed Papadopoulos back, stating that she “would be very pleased to support [his] initiatives between [their] two countries.”
April 11, 2016: Papadopoulos emailed Polonskaya (cc’ing Mifsud) about the possibility of arranging a foreign policy trip to Russia.
April 11, 2016: Mifsud replied to Papadopoulos, saying, “this is already been agreed [sic].”
April 11, 2016: Polonskaya replied to Papadopoulos, saying, “we are all very excited by the possibility of a good relationship with Mr. Trump. The Russian Federation would love to welcome him once his candidature would be officially announced.”
...
April 27, 2016: Trump was introduced to Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak by Simes at a reception before Trump’s foreign policy speech.
April 27, 2016: Senior Trump campaign advisers Jeff Sessions and Jared Kushner met with Kislyak at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, D.C., before Trump’s first foreign policy speech.
April 29, 2016: Papadopoulos emailed Polonskaya about a potential trip to Russia.
April 30, 2016: Papadopoulos contacted Mifsud to thank him “for his ‘critical help’ in arranging a meeting between the Campaign and the Russian government.”
...
May 2016-August 2016: This contact represents the second time Gates send Kilimnik polling data. The wording of the Mueller report suggests that Gates sent Kilimnik polling data at least five separate instances during this time period. The Mueller report makes it clear that Gates had been sending Kilimnik polling data frequently, and after August 2016, he began sending it less frequently. This implies Gates sent Kilimnik data multiple times after August 2016, which we will conservatively consider two contacts. That in turn implies that Gates must have sent Kilimnik polling data more times prior to August than he did after August—that is, at least three times. As such, we conservatively interpret the report to include at least five contacts between Gates and Kilimnik regarding polling data. Gates may have had many more contacts with Kilimnik during this time period. It is also unclear if Kilimnik replied to Gates’ messages, which would also entail additional contacts.
May 2016-August 2016: As indicated above, this contact represents the third time Gates sent Kilimnik polling data.
May 2016: Russian central banker Alexander Torshin passed a proposal through conservative activist Rick Clay to Trump campaign aide Rick Dearborn. Torshin was advocating for a meeting between Trump and Putin. Torshin and alleged Russian ageny Maria Butina reportedly made the request to Clay “through a longtime friend.” Dearborn forwarded Clay’s email to Manafort, Gates, and Kushner. Kushner reportedly told Dearborn to decline the invitation.
May 2016: Dearborn emailed Clay to reject the proposed meeting.
May 4, 2016: Timofeev emailed Papadopoulos claiming to have talked to his colleagues in the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, who were “open for cooperation.”
May 4, 2016: Sater texted Cohen, saying he “had a chat with Moscow” and discussing Cohen’s potential trip to Moscow.
May 5, 2016: Cohen received an invitation from Peskov to visit Russia, delivered through Sater. Sater wrote to Cohen that Peskov “would like to invite you as his guest to the St. Petersburg Forum which is Russia’s Davos it’s June 16–19. He wants to meet there with you and possibly introduce you to either [the President of Russia] or [the Prime Minister of Russia], as they are not sure if 1 or both will be there. . . . He said anything you want to discuss including dates and subjects are on the table to discuss.”
May 6, 2016: Gates arranged for Kilimnik to travel to New York to meeting Manafort the following day.
May 7, 2016: Manafort met with Kilimnik.

It goes on and on and we haven't even got to the fourth quarter of 2016 (i.e., December, just after the election, when Aven claims Putin tasked him with establishing "communication" with someone from the Trump transition team, because Putin not only can't, but doesn't evcen know anyone in Trump's circle). There are numerous high ranking Russians who know Putin intimately listed in these records ALL of which have been corresponding directly (and openly) with numerous members of Trump's "inner circle" for well over a year prior and throughout the entire time that Putin has been orchestrating a massive cyber war against the US.

But the most direct evidence proving that Aven's cover story was bullshit is this direct contradiction (emphasis mine):

Sergei Ryabkov, the country’s deputy foreign minister, told the news agency Interfax that “there were contacts” between the Russian government and the Trump campaign. “We are doing this and have been doing this during the election campaign,” Ryabkov said; “obviously, we know most of the people from [Trump’s] entourage. Those people have always been in the limelight in the United States and have occupied high-ranking positions. I cannot say that all of them, but quite a few have been staying in touch with Russian representatives."

Yes, obviously. So why did Aven lie?

Again, here is what Aven told Mueller:

Aven also testified that Putin spoke of the difficulty faced by the Russian government in getting in touch with the incoming Trump Administration. According to Aven, Putin indicated that he did not know with whom formally to speak and generally did not know the people around the President-Elect

So, once again, not only is that bullshit, as directly proved by the Deputy Foreign Minister, but why would that be anything for the head of a private bank to find out, let alone Putin's secretary? I don't mean Secretary, like a Secretary of State, I mean the likely 25 year old twink sitting outside of his office and is in charge of finding out who to fucking call whenever he barks.

 

[barbos]

Please continue, don't stop.

 

[Deepak]

Wrong, yet again. It does not matter how the query "goes";

No, when the topic being discussed is the sending of secret messages then that matters. In fact it's the only thing that matters.

Look, Morse code is direct point-to-point communication between parties. It could be eavesdropped, but that can be a mechanism for one party to send a message to another party. Steganography is a broadcase message that obscures the communication, so everyone gets it but only the intended recipient can read it. If they were plausibly using DNS query timing and spacing, that is to say a sort-of-broadcast channel, then putting Trump in the query ceases to make it a secret communication, that is to say it's not obscured.

I'll go with Vixie.

But you refuse to. Here's his twitter account https://twitter.com/paulvixie

He doesn't seem to use it purely for professional communication, so I doubt he'd be offended by the question.

"Mr Vixie, I was reading an article stating blah blah blah. Were you saying that the DNS queries were the method of communication, or that the DNS queries were evidence of communication? If the former then why wouldn't GRU hackers (who otherwise use pretty sophisticated methods) agree to make the lookup to a domain that doesn't identify Trump?)"

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Please continue, don't stop.

Adorable.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Wrong, yet again. It does not matter how the query "goes";

No, when the topic being discussed is the sending of secret messages then that matters.

No, it doesn't, because the topic I am discussing--my hypothesis--is whether or not this activity itself could be a form of code. Why you can't comprehend that is baffling, particularly since you note:

Steganography is a broadcase message that obscures the communication, so everyone gets it but only the intended recipient can read it.

And why is that? Because the intended recipient has the key that decodes the message. What makes it secret is that no one else has the code and therefore can't figure out what the message is. It's all about the code, not necessarily the mechanism of delivery.

If they were plausibly using DNS query timing and spacing, that is to say a sort-of-broadcast channel, then putting Trump in the query ceases to make it a secret communication, that is to say it's not obscured.

What's the code for "T" "R" "U" "M" or "P"? Let's say it's -- = "T" and - ---- = "R" and - = "U" and ------ = "M" and --- "P." Is that not obscured?

I'll go with Vixie.

But you refuse to.

Are you a child? I just stated categorically that I was going to go with Vixie.

Were you saying that the DNS queries were the method of communication, or that the DNS queries were evidence of communication?

For the last time, STOP STUFFING FUCKING STRAWMEN. I never claimed Vixie was stating that the DNS queries themselves were the code.