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Deutsche Bank has Trump’s taxes — and loan applications cosigned by Russian oligarchs: report

What's the code for "T" "R" "U" "M" or "P"? Let's say it's -- = "T" and - ---- = "R" and - = "U" and ------ = "M" and --- "P." Is that not obscured?

That doesn't resemble a DNS query. Let's say the (hour + day % 31) is what they're using for communication, producing a code table that looks like:

Code:
1:a	11:k	21:u
2:b	12:l	22:v
3:c	13:m	23:w
4:d	14:n	24:x
5:e	15:o	25:y
6:f	16:p	26:z
7:g	17:q	27:.
8:h	18:r	28:,
9:i	19:s	29:
10:j	20:t	30:-

So the secret code to send Trump messages are calls that look like this:

Code:
trump-email.com	3:17 am
trump-email.com	4:04 am
trump-email.com	5:04 am
trump-email.com	5:14 am
trump-email.com	5:24 am
trump-email.com	6:03 am
trump-email.com	6:13 am
trump-email.com	6:23 am
trump-email.com	6:29 am
trump-email.com	6:46 am
trump-email.com	7:06 am
trump-email.com	7:26 am

For the last time, STOP STUFFING FUCKING STRAWMEN. I never claimed Vixie was stating that the DNS queries themselves were the code.

That's not a strawman:

For all we know at this point, the Alfa "pings" were just the letters "A" and "E" and that Trump's smart toaster received other forms of "pings" that were the letters "R" and "Z" and that, unbeknownst to her, Ivanka's email address would get different kinds of spam that just went directly into her spam folder, but represented the rest of the fucking alphabet in sequential rotations every forth Tuesday.

Point being that there are many many different ways in which the Alfa pings could have communicated messages either back and forth or just in one direction without the actual connections being conduits of information themselves.

What I am saying/arguing/asserting/speculating (among other things) is that the DNS query IS the code. Or, rather, could be.

But let's be charitable and say that that was a misreading on my part. Your other theory is that the secret communication used a public DNS lookup to trump-email.com to secretly send messages to a server that the Trump org doesn't control, then the Trump Org broke into said server so that the secret communication couldn't be tied back to the Trump Org? And instead of caching the location of the server they, for some inexplicable reason, made public lookups to a server with static IP every time they wanted to send a message?

BCnitlo.gif
 
Deepak, the guy keeps ignoring the fact that Trump people did not have access to DNS server or its logs.
He created idiotic theory nobody else (except people following this thread) even aware of.
 
That doesn't resemble a DNS query.

Gee, no shit?

Let's say the (hour + day % 31) is what they're using for communication, producing a code table that looks like:

Code:
1:a	11:k	21:u
2:b	12:l	22:v
3:c	13:m	23:w
4:d	14:n	24:x
5:e	15:o	25:y
6:f	16:p	26:z
7:g	17:q	27:.
8:h	18:r	28:,
9:i	19:s	29:
10:j	20:t	30:-

So the secret code to send Trump messages are calls that look like this:

Code:
trump-email.com	3:17 am
trump-email.com	4:04 am
trump-email.com	5:04 am
trump-email.com	5:14 am
trump-email.com	5:24 am
trump-email.com	6:03 am
trump-email.com	6:13 am
trump-email.com	6:23 am
trump-email.com	6:29 am
trump-email.com	6:46 am
trump-email.com	7:06 am
trump-email.com	7:26 am

Ok. There, you've just established one possible way that they were using these servers as a means to communicate to each other using a secret code that only they knew.


That's not a strawman:

Yes, it was and remains to be. I am the one positing the idea that the server activity itself is a code. You affirm this by quoting me directly:

For all we know at this point, the Alfa "pings" were just the letters "A" and "E" and that Trump's smart toaster received other forms of "pings" that were the letters "R" and "Z" and that, unbeknownst to her, Ivanka's email address would get different kinds of spam that just went directly into her spam folder, but represented the rest of the fucking alphabet in sequential rotations every forth Tuesday.

Point being that there are many many different ways in which the Alfa pings could have communicated messages either back and forth or just in one direction without the actual connections being conduits of information themselves.

At no point did I ever argue that Paul Vixie is the one who posited that the activity itself was a code. Vixie believes the activity to have been driven by humans--i.e., deliberate and not merely the dumb, automatic actions of machines--and I am going with him on that call.

What I am saying/arguing/asserting/speculating (among other things) is that the DNS query IS the code. Or, rather, could be.

See?

But let's be charitable and say that that was a misreading on my part.

It was. No charity involved.

Your other theory

Hypothesis and not "other."

is that the secret communication used a public DNS lookup to trump-email.com to secretly send messages

Be clear so you don't keep stuffing straw; my hypothesis is that the lookups are the code. Or a part of the code.

to a server that the Trump org doesn't control

First of all, this idiotic sophistry needs to stop. Just because an affiliated company may own the server does not necessarily mean that no one in the Trump Org doesn't have access to either the machine itself or to its data. This is a Trump argument, not a valid argument. As I pointed out previously, Cendyn is headquartered in Boca Raton, Florida which is just a half hour's drive from Mar-A-Lago. Clearly there is a long-standing financial/business relationship between the Trump Org and Cendyn, having started (as I also pointed out) in 2013, which is when Trump takes the Miss Universe pageant to Moscow and, as I believe, gets "activated" (to use what has now become Hollywood's idea of spycraft).

It would be a very simple thing--and is more than likely standard business practice and something that was already in place--for anyone in the Trump Org to say to any wonk at Cendyn at any time of day or night, "Hey, can you send me today's activity" or the like so that the client of Cendyn gets whatever information they want with regard to whatever activity they want on their account emailed to them, faxed to them, printed on fucking papyrus to them or, more than likely, simply shunted to them through some other connection we don't know about and is currently under investigation.

Or, for that matter, was set up initially through some sort of data analytics portal or general, inclusive, data dump, where the Trump Org simply stated as part of the contract, something like, "Cendyn will provide ALL data collected in regard to the activity of our organization." Simple and standard. Whether that translated into a routine data dump in some fashion or just some guy named Kleetus reading it out over the phone whenever someone called from the Trump Org, it would not ever have been something out of ordinary or even questioned. Or someone named Kleetus in the Trump Org would just drive on over and pick up the printouts every week.

It's the Trump Organization's data, after all, and Cendyn is in the business of providing its clients whatever data they request.

This was, after all, supposedly a marketing related service Cendyn/Listrak provided. I'm in marketing. The first thing we do is study all of the data we can get our hands on with regard to how anything to do with the company/marketing gets tracked. So I would want to know all of the activity possible with regard to who is seeking information about the company I work for and how our campaigns are doing, etc. That includes such things as how many times someone just looks at our website and whether or not they stay on one page or go to another page (and which page they then click on).

The kinds of information that are collected are not just the more overt "surface" kinds of information (e.g., email inquiries). The whole point is to find out the traffic flow and the page bounce and the otherwise behind the scenes kind of data, so it wouldn't raise any questions at all if part of the Trump Org's original or modified instructions/agreement with Cendyn/Listrak or whoever would be a full accounting of ALL data tracked by these companies, including the number and sources of lookups.

Or, for that matter, all any of us know, the President of Cendyn is a golfing buddy of Trump's and/or there is a low-level wonk at Cendyn that got bribed, etc., etc., etc. There are dozens of ways that their server and/or the data from their server could have been regularly checked on/sent to some member or affiliate of the Trump Org. without a single red flag waving.

then the Trump Org broke into said server

Nope.

So, now that you've once again failed in your attempts to discredit my hypothesis--while ironically providing an example of a possible codebook--care to properly place all of this within the context of Aven's testimony, or, for that matter the even larger coincidental realm of the hundreds of other aspects of this clusterfuck? We know Putin orchestrated the massive cyber attack; we know it started long before Trump even announced he was running; we know from Aven's mouth that Putin instructed him to set up a secret communications channel between Trump and Putin, not merely that he should call up Trump's transition team to talk about non-existent sanctions against Alfa bank; etc, etc.,etc.

Again, to properly apply Occam's, one must apply it to ALL of the factors involved, not merely cherry pick and isolate.
 
But let's be charitable and say that that was a misreading on my part. Your other theory is that the secret communication used a public DNS lookup to trump-email.com to secretly send messages to a server that the Trump org doesn't control, then the Trump Org broke into said server so that the secret communication couldn't be tied back to the Trump Org? And instead of caching the location of the server they, for some inexplicable reason, made public lookups to a server with static IP every time they wanted to send a message?
On the surface, it looks convoluted. But these are the same people... for instance like Kuschner, who didn't delete an email about a secret Russian anti-Clinton meeting... or Donald Trump Jr... who also didn't delete the emails about a secret Russian anti-Clinton meeting. The term Stupid-Watergate exists for a reason. Granted, such people would seemingly appear to be incapable of developing such a scheme in the first place.
 
But let's be charitable and say that that was a misreading on my part. Your other theory is that the secret communication used a public DNS lookup to trump-email.com to secretly send messages to a server that the Trump org doesn't control, then the Trump Org broke into said server so that the secret communication couldn't be tied back to the Trump Org? And instead of caching the location of the server they, for some inexplicable reason, made public lookups to a server with static IP every time they wanted to send a message?
On the surface, it looks convoluted. But these are the same people... for instance like Kuschner, who didn't delete an email about a secret Russian anti-Clinton meeting... or Donald Trump Jr... who also didn't delete the emails about a secret Russian anti-Clinton meeting. The term Stupid-Watergate exists for a reason. Granted, such people would seemingly appear to be incapable of developing such a scheme in the first place.
The point is, people who ARE capable to develop such a scheme would not, because scheme is obviously retarded and simply would not work... at all.
 
But let's be charitable and say that that was a misreading on my part. Your other theory is that the secret communication used a public DNS lookup to trump-email.com to secretly send messages to a server that the Trump org doesn't control, then the Trump Org broke into said server so that the secret communication couldn't be tied back to the Trump Org? And instead of caching the location of the server they, for some inexplicable reason, made public lookups to a server with static IP every time they wanted to send a message?
On the surface, it looks convoluted. But these are the same people... for instance like Kuschner, who didn't delete an email about a secret Russian anti-Clinton meeting... or Donald Trump Jr... who also didn't delete the emails about a secret Russian anti-Clinton meeting. The term Stupid-Watergate exists for a reason. Granted, such people would seemingly appear to be incapable of developing such a scheme in the first place.

The problem is that the stupidity is reversed here. It requires the Russians to be operating like idiots and the Trump org to be the master technicians. Vixie himself initially doubted the analyst's ability to even monitor all of the DNS queries. When a theory simultaneously requires a remarkable level of capability and stupidity, along with significant effort to create a mechanism that is worse than off-the-shelf technology (in the best case) it's a stupid theory.
 
Deepak, the guy keeps ignoring the fact that Trump people did not have access to DNS server or its logs.
He created idiotic theory nobody else (except people following this thread) even aware of.

Knocking on a door does not sound like "girl scout cookies".
.. unless you knock like this:

Knock Knock tap (G)
tap tap (I)
tap knock tap (R)
tap knock tap tap (L)
[pause]
tap tap tap (S)
knock tap knock tap (C)
knock knock knock (O)
tap tap knock (U)
knock (T)
[pause]
knock tap knock tap (C)
knock knock knock (O)
knock knock knock (O)
knock tap knock (K)
tap tap (I)
tap (E)
tap tap tap (S)

In terms of DNS queries... it's not the query itself (of course it does not "look like" a DNS query - it's not meant to.. that pattern of knocking does not "look like" a person requesting entry either - duh). It is the timing between lookups that can contain the hidden message.

There are countless means of this type of communication that are in practice... timing of ICMP pings to a server (not much different than DNS lookups)... Hex code of a color of a dot on a webpage... it's a whole area of study in fighting cyber crime... Steganography being just one type.
 
It requires the Russians to be operating like idiots and the Trump org to be the master technicians.

If you and I develop a code then you and I know what to look for and no one else does. So to you and I, it's incredibly simple to see the message hidden in the noise that everyone else would only see as a bunch of noise.

Vixie himself initially doubted the analyst's ability to even monitor all of the DNS queries.

"Initially" being the operative word. Here's the New Yorker piece again. Note that wherever "Paul" is mentioned or quoted, it's a reference to Paul Vixie:

After Trump’s Inauguration, two Democratic senators who had reviewed the data assembled by Max’s group—Mark Warner and a colleague who requested anonymity—asked the F.B.I. for an assessment of any potential contacts between Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization. The material was also brought to the attention of the C.I.A., which found it substantial enough to suggest that the F.B.I. investigate. In March, 2017, a Pennsylvania news outlet called Lancaster Online reported that F.B.I. agents had visited the offices of Listrak, the company that housed the Trump server. Ross Kramer, Listrak’s C.E.O., told me, “I gave them everything they asked for.”

Around the same time, the second Democratic senator approached a former Senate staffer named Daniel Jones and asked him to give the data a closer look. Jones had served as a counterterrorism investigator for the F.B.I. and then spent ten years working for the Senate Intelligence Committee, where he led the inquiry into the use of torture under the George W. Bush Administration. Now he was running an investigations firm, the Penn Quarter Group, and a nonprofit initiative called the Democracy Integrity Project, which was intended to help keep elections free from foreign interference.

To assess the Alfa Bank data, Jones assembled a team of computer scientists, divided into two groups, one on each coast. (They also consulted with Jean Camp, who agreed to coöperate despite the possibility that Alfa Bank might take legal action.) All these experts have national reputations in the field. Some have held senior cybersecurity jobs in the Pentagon, the White House, and the intelligence services, as well as in leading American technology companies. In order to encourage an unbiased outcome, Jones never introduced the East Coast group to the West Coast group.

I met several times with the two members of the East Coast group and spoke with them repeatedly. They used pseudonyms, Paul and Leto, in part because they had been alarmed by encounters with Russia while they were working at high levels of government. Leto said that, in 2016, as he was investigating cyber intrusions that seemed to originate in Russia, he became convinced that he was being followed. Both he and Paul believed that their phones had been hacked. These incursions coincided with a period of intense Russian activity in the U.S., including the hacking of the D.N.C., a pro-Trump social-media blitz, and the arrival of Maria Butina, who is accused of being a Russian agent sent to ingratiate herself with American conservative leaders. (Butina has denied the accusations.)

As Paul and Leto began working, they needed to verify that Max’s data presented an accurate picture of the traffic. After the Slate story appeared, skeptics pointed out that no one has a comprehensive view of the Domain Name System. They speculated that other entities, besides Alfa Bank and Spectrum Health, had looked up the Trump domain, and that Max had failed to see them. The D.N.S. company Dyn told a reporter that it had seen lookups from other computers around the world. But Dyn turned out to have registered only two additional lookups, both from the same address in the Netherlands.

Max and his colleagues maintain that they are able to see nearly all the D.N.S. lookups on a given domain; the senior Capitol Hill aide I spoke to affirmed that Max’s group is widely understood to have this capability. Paul Vixie, one of the original architects of the D.N.S. network, examined the data and told me, “If this is a forgery, it’s better than any forgery I’ve seen.” Jones’s team also ran analyses and real-time tests to check Max’s access to D.N.S. records. “It’s completely implausible that he could have fooled us,” Paul said.

Max had provided the Jones team with thirty-seven million D.N.S. records, enough to fill thousands of screens with time stamps and I.P. addresses—long strings of numbers and letters in green type. Over the course of several months, Paul and Leto examined the data for patterns and anomalies. “We stared at a lot of green screens,” Paul said. They regarded their inquiry as a statistical enterprise, capturing each Alfa Bank D.N.S. query from the ocean of data that they had been given and plotting it over a four-month period. Both said that they began their work as skeptics. “I started from an assumption that this is a bunch of nonsense,” Leto told me.

Much of the information that was publicly available might well have supported that assumption. Foer’s article in Slate had prompted online discussions, in which commentators offered explanations ranging from the benign to the sinister. The timing of the lookups, which came in the summer just before the election, invited speculation. Foer claimed that the biggest flurries of traffic coincided with major campaign events, including the party conventions. Paul and Leto were dubious. If anything, the traffic coincided with Paul Manafort’s time as Trump’s campaign manager—but the D.N.S. queries continued after Manafort stepped down. “A lot of people are seeing faces in clouds,” Leto said.

The Trump Organization had done little to clarify the matter. In October, 2016, it released a statement denying interactions with Alfa Bank “or any Russian entity.” Instead, it offered a peculiar explanation for the D.N.S. traffic: it had been triggered when “an existing banking customer of Cendyn”—the marketing firm—had used the company’s systems to send communications to Alfa Bank. Such a scenario would be highly irregular; it was as if Gmail had allowed a user to send e-mail from another user’s account. “It makes no sense,” Paul told me.

Trump’s advocates claimed that the investigations sponsored by Alfa Bank had proved that Alfa and the Trump Organization were not communicating. In fact, they sidestepped the question. Mandiant, one of the cybersecurity firms, said that it was unable to inspect the bank’s D.N.S. logs from 2016, because Alfa retained such records for only twenty-four hours. The other firm, Stroz Friedberg, gave the same explanation for why it, too, was “unable to verify” the data.

As Jones’s team vetted the data, they examined various possible explanations. One was malware, which had played a role in the hack of the D.N.C.’s computers. Most malware has “distinctive patterns of behavior,” Camp told me. It is typically sent out in a blast, aimed simultaneously at multiple domains. There is a “payload”—a mechanism that activates the malicious activity—and a “recruitment mechanism,” which enables the malware to take over parts of a vulnerable computer. None of the experts whom Jones assembled found any evidence of this behavior on the Trump server. “Malware doesn’t keep banging on the door like that,” Paul said.

A second possibility was marketing e-mail. After the Slate article appeared, some commentators suggested that Trump’s server had innocently sent promotional e-mails to Alfa Bank, and that a computer there had responded with queries designed to verify the identity of the sender. This became a catchall answer for anyone who couldn’t explain what had happened. “Either this is something innocuous, like spam,” Rachel Cohen, a press secretary for Senator Warner, told me, “or it’s completely nefarious.”

Alfa Bank had received Trump marketing e-mails in the past. But Cendyn had told CNN that it stopped sending e-mails for the Trump Organization in March, 2016, before the peculiar activity began; Trump had transferred his online marketing to another company, called Serenata. Jones’s team investigated, and found additional evidence that the server wasn’t sending marketing e-mails at the time. One indicator was the unusually limited traffic. Kramer, of Listrak, told me that a typical client sends “tens of thousands of e-mails a day” to huge numbers of recipients. If the Trump server was following that pattern, it would have generated significant D.N.S. traffic. To establish a kind of control group, Jones’s team asked Max to capture the D.N.S. logs for the Denihan Hospitality Group—a hotel chain, similar in size to Trump’s, which was using Cendyn and Listrak to send marketing e-mails. In a sample spanning August and September, 2016, a Denihan domain received more than twenty thousand D.N.S. queries, from more than a thousand I.P. addresses. In the same period, the Trump domain had twenty-five hundred lookups, nearly all of them from Alfa Bank and Spectrum Health.

The timing and the frequency of the D.N.S. lookups also did not suggest spam, Paul and Leto believed. Mass-marketing e-mails are typically sent by an automated process, one after another, in an unbroken rhythm. The Alfa queries seemed to fall into two categories. Some came in a steady pulse, while others arrived irregularly—sometimes many in a day, sometimes a few. “The timing of the communication was not random, and it wasn’t regular-periodic,” Paul said. “It was a better match for human activity.”

But, if the Trump server wasn’t sending or receiving e-mail, what could explain the traffic? There was the possibility of “spoofing”—essentially, faking an identity. Did someone try to make it appear, falsely, that Alfa Bank was reaching out to the Trump Organization? Jones’s team concluded that such an attack would have been unlikely to produce thousands of D.N.S. lookups, over such a long time. “Maybe for a few days, but not four months,” Leto said. There was also a question of motive. In the spring of 2016, very few people knew that Max and his colleagues were able to monitor D.N.S. traffic so comprehensively, so any spoofers would have been impersonating Alfa Bank with little expectation of being detected. News stories investigating the links between Trump and Russia were months away. “Why would someone do that?” Steven Bellovin, of Columbia, said. “And why would they pick those organizations?”

Well, we know a possible reason why thanks to Aven's testimony. Putin told Aven to create a secret communications channel between Trump and Putin. A task that evidently took him several quarters to figure out.

Btw, it should be noted that:

[Aven] is a member of the Board of Directors at LetterOne Group. L1 Group was established in 2013 to invest in international projects in energy, telecommunications and technology.
...
Born in Moscow, his father, [is a] professor of computer science...
...After graduation from university, Aven was a senior researcher at the All-Union Institute for Systems Studies at the USSR Academy of Sciences and then spent time at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis in Laxenburg, Austria (1989–1991).

Interesting to note how this article on defining Systems Analysis at the IIASA features Through The Looking Glass and notes:

Systems analysis at IIASA is, in fact, a problem-solving process in which many people take part: scientists of relevant disciplines, stakeholders, and decision makers. These are not just problems per se, but problems along with all the attendant factors and concepts they encompass. To quote Quade and Miser, these factors include: “the knowledge and methods of modern science and technology, in combination with concepts of social goals and equities, elements of judgment and taste, and appropriate consideration of the larger contexts and uncertainties that inevitably attend such systems.” It can thus be said that systems analysis has both a quantitative and a qualitative side.

The central purpose of systems analysis is to help private decision makers and public policymakers resolve the problems that they face in the short, medium, and long term. The problems we address at IIASA are large-scale socio-technical problems...

And how do they do that?

First, we marshal all the information and scientific knowledge available on the problem in question; if necessary, we gather new evidence and develop new knowledge. Second, we determine what the goals of the stakeholders are, both of the people and the institutions. Third, we explore different alternative ways of achieving those goals, and we design or invent new options, where appropriate.
...
Systems analysis has been the most helpful in addressing issues dominated by science and engineering, for industrial or military applications.

So that's Aven's background. His father is a prominent computer scientist/professor and Aven has experience in technology-based, applied systems analysis problem solving and sits on the board of an investment firm that focuses on telecommunications and technology.

Curiouser and curiouser.
 
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If you and I develop a code then you and I know what to look for and no one else does. So to you and I, it's incredibly simple to see the message hidden in the noise that everyone else would only see as a bunch of noise.
You need to reassess the topic and shift your energies elsewhere.

"Initially" being the operative word. Here's the New Yorker piece again. Note that wherever "Paul" is mentioned or quoted, it's a reference to Paul Vixie:
And the Trump campaign was too stupid to handle such a conspiracy. So perhaps you need to ask yourself, why didn't they look for similar results showing a history of this sort of communication? I'd assume it'd be like looking for a piece of haying in an ocean of needle, but it there was to be a conspiracy, and from the actions of the Russians, they did plenty without the Trump Campaign, who else would they be communicating with and how would this information get to them.

Ultimately, this is like trying to find a space ship that fell beyond the event horizon and hoping to find out what their last lunch was.
 
If you and I develop a code then you and I know what to look for and no one else does. So to you and I, it's incredibly simple to see the message hidden in the noise that everyone else would only see as a bunch of noise.
You need to reassess the topic and shift your energies elsewhere.

I have repeatedly noted this to the mods. You, however, need to be less concerned about what I do or do not need.

Ultimately, this is like trying to find a space ship that fell beyond the event horizon and hoping to find out what their last lunch was.

Yet another irrelevant personal assessment.
 
Ultimately, this is like trying to find a space ship that fell beyond the event horizon and hoping to find out what their last lunch was.

All you have to do is collect the Hawking Radiation and inspect it for the information it contains.
Finding suspicious patterns in internet traffic is trivial in comparison.
 
Ok. There, you've just established one possible way that they were using these servers as a means to communicate to each other using a secret code that only they knew.

The thing you're missing, intentionally or not, is that the trump-email.com part contains no information. The query goes to nameservers and asks 'how do I contact this domain' and the NS either knows, or it asks the next NS in the chain. The communication path is between people requesting the location, the NS, and any third party observers who could snoop the connection. The only reason to make the call to trump-email.com would be to deliberately identify the 'secret' communique. That's not an 'oops I fucked up' situation, it's a peculiar and deliberate inclusion of identifying information.

then the Trump Org broke into said server

Nope.

So, now that you've once again failed in your attempts to discredit my hypothesis--while ironically providing an example of a possible codebook--care to properly place all of this within the context of Aven's testimony, or, for that matter the even larger coincidental realm of the hundreds of other aspects of this clusterfuck? We know Putin orchestrated the massive cyber attack; we know it started long before Trump even announced he was running; we know from Aven's mouth that Putin instructed him to set up a secret communications channel between Trump and Putin, not merely that he should call up Trump's transition team to talk about non-existent sanctions against Alfa bank; etc, etc.,etc.

Again, to properly apply Occam's, one must apply it to ALL of the factors involved, not merely cherry pick and isolate.

Uh huh...

Look, it's difficult enough to try having this conversation when you refuse to actually digest the content of my posts, but it's impossible when you refuse to do the same for your own posts.

And my guess would be that they're not exactly Fort Knox and there would have been any number of different ways to get access to that information, likely with no one at Cendyn ever having a clue as to what or how. Which is--likewise--a likely reason the server was chosen.

And if we're talking about the Listrak server that was supposedly in Philadelphia as the main one, I'm sure Cendyn has access to the data and/or there would be many ways to hack into either company's equipment regardless. So this notion that the Trump Organization had no direct control over whichever server is just pure smoke.

What exactly were you saying here then? That the Russians broke into the server? So they specifically and deliberately included identifying info in the requests, then sent the message to an American server where the Russians broke in to extract the messages they sent, and then they relayed that to the Trump Org? Is that where the Morse code line comes in? But they were too dumb to go to the Listrak website and choose one of the other clients. You know these boxes aren't dedicated servers, right? Multiple domains point to the same IP.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop
 
I have repeatedly noted this to the mods.

Jesus H Christ on a stick - I have no idea why anyone volunteers to be a mod.

Anybody remember what the OP was about again?

Relax your fucking crack drama queen. The thread was about another bank involved in Trump's traitorous Russian interactions and was essentially dormant until this related tangent. You'll survive.
 
Man, if only the right wing where this diligent about checking sources and verifying stories when, I don't know, someone was accused of running a pedophile ring in the basement of a restaurant that doesn't even have a basement!
 
Man, if only the right wing where this diligent about checking sources and verifying stories when, I don't know, someone was accused of running a pedophile ring in the basement of a restaurant that doesn't even have a basement!

You underestimate the ease with which a "restauranteur" can get rid of a basement when it is urgent to do so!
 
Man, if only the right wing where this diligent about checking sources and verifying stories when, I don't know, someone was accused of running a pedophile ring in the basement of a restaurant that doesn't even have a basement!

You underestimate the ease with which a "restauranteur" can get rid of a basement when it is urgent to do so!
All it takes is a Jedi mind trick. ;)
 
The only reason to make the call to trump-email.com would be to deliberately identify the 'secret' communique. That's not an 'oops I fucked up' situation, it's a peculiar and deliberate inclusion of identifying information.

That would have zero meaning to anyone who didn't know the code and would simply look like a passive lookup query. Hey, what do you know? You not only once again showed how it could be done, you also highlighted how it would constitute hiding in plain sight.

Let's repeat the relevant part: UNLESS YOU KNOW THE CODE, deliberately identifying "trump-email.com" would not "identify the 'secret' communique."

Do you still not comprehend the painfully simple notion of morse code? If you don't know the code, then all you'd see is: --- ** ** * --- --- * *** **** ** ---.

Hell, someone could send: TRUMP TrUMp TRUMp TrUmp TRUmP TRumP TRUMP and STILL not be identifying the secret communique, because the secret part is the CODE, not the fact that someone used Trump's name to form a code.

All that would do is exactly what is going on here; a debate over whether or not the use of TRUMP's name in this way was human generated or had some other non-human generated origin. But what was communicated by using the code made out of Trump's name would NOT be revealed, thus the communication --what you and I said to each other using the code--would still be secret. What would not be secret would be a printout with Trump's name spelled in different ways, but if you--say it out loud as you read this--DON'T KNOW THE CODE THEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SECRET MESSAGE WAS.

Just like if you don't know morse code, then all you'd see is a bunch of --- and ***.

Look, it's difficult enough to try having this conversation when you refuse to actually digest the content of my posts

Irony. Big fan. :thumbsup:

And my guess would be that they're not exactly Fort Knox and there would have been any number of different ways to get access to that information, likely with no one at Cendyn ever having a clue as to what or how. Which is--likewise--a likely reason the server was chosen.

And if we're talking about the Listrak server that was supposedly in Philadelphia as the main one, I'm sure Cendyn has access to the data and/or there would be many ways to hack into either company's equipment regardless. So this notion that the Trump Organization had no direct control over whichever server is just pure smoke.

What exactly were you saying here then?

More irony.

I was saying that there would have been any number of different ways for the Trump camp to get access to the necessary information, regardless of who owns the servers, so the idea that the Trump camp did not "own" the servers is irrelevant.

Hell, according to the New Yorker piece, evidently if you knew what to look for, you could see it happening "in real time":

Examining records for the Trump domain, Max’s group discovered D.N.S. lookups from a pair of servers owned by Alfa Bank, one of the largest banks in Russia. Alfa Bank’s computers were looking up the address of the Trump server nearly every day. There were dozens of lookups on some days and far fewer on others, but the total number was notable: between May and September, Alfa Bank looked up the Trump Organization’s domain more than two thousand times. “We were watching this happen in real time—it was like watching an airplane fly by,” Max said. “And we thought, Why the hell is a Russian bank communicating with a server that belongs to the Trump Organization, and at such a rate?”
 
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