Discipline for children

[Juma]

Yes? That is exactly what laughing dog wrote. ( except the distinction between children and adults)

So laughing dog wrote social systems depend on authority and authorities in social systems are chartered to organize punishment to maintain social structure?

No, and neither did you.

 

[fromderinside]

So laughing dog wrote social systems depend on authority and authorities in social systems are chartered to organize punishment to maintain social structure?

No, and neither did you.

Really?

The point of authoritarian corporal punishment is to disrupt ongoing behavior. It is to initiate into the human group that humans are violent and that those in authority are permitted to provide for such systems and measures.

 

[Juma]

No, and neither did you.

Really?

The point of authoritarian corporal punishment is to disrupt ongoing behavior. It is to initiate into the human group that humans are violent and that those in authority are permitted to provide for such systems and measures.

Yes. You dont really read what you write, you just read what was in your mind writing it.

 

[Playball40]

One thing I've noticed in this thread is that no distinction is being made to the age and development of the child. Just for the record, "time out" is equally as ineffective as "spanking" on a toddler and most preschoolers. Distraction is what should be used and POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT when expected behavior is observed.

Time out is a form of distraction.

I'm talking about the negative "time out". You get a "time out" to sit in a chair and not move for 3 minutes. Distraction is removing the child from the situation and distracting them with something equally as interesting - no 'negative' needed. (and again I'm speaking to the toddler age).

 

[Playball40]

One thing I've noticed in this thread is that no distinction is being made to the age and development of the child. Just for the record, "time out" is equally as ineffective as "spanking" on a toddler and most preschoolers. Distraction is what should be used and POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT when expected behavior is observed.

Sure, it's best to avoid conditions which might produce melt downs and tantrums in toddlers. I was pretty good at this but once in a while, someone had an unanticipated meltdown or one which was due to unavoidable circumstances (who knew son would become so attached to the firetruck he ignored the day before and melt down when I put it away in the closet? Two year olds are not rational in the same way most adults use the term. ). I found removing the child from the situation or simply to a quiet place to allow the child to calm down was far more effective than trying to 'distract' the child. Sometimes with rocking, soothing, sometimes just quiet. Some would term this 'time out' but I never used that term with my kids myself.

Here's the thing: our job as parents isn't to make certain that the road of life is always smooth and trouble free, with no bumps or bruises along the way. That's an impossible task and performing it very well actually cripples the child and makes the child unable to tolerate or overcome or even flourish in the face of adversity. Let's face it: we all face some adversity. Our first shot at handling it should not come our freshman year of college. And trust me: there exist parents who would prevent even that trauma from harming their little darlings.

Our job is to teach our children to handle life's little bumps and bruises and learn from them so that they will be able to handle what life throws at them, and even flourish in the face of adversity. This is called resilience. It is a good thing. Essential, actually.

It is also our job to teach children that their needs are not the only ones which exist and not the ones which are most important most of the time, that it is highly desirable to be able to look at the world from the point of view of other people, to do the best job we can possible, to accept ourselves while striving to be better people, to accept other people without necessarily taking their bullshit or throwing out more bullshit of our own. That honesty and kindness are essential. To try to leave the world a better place when we leave it, starting with our rooms and first apartments.. and so on.

Removing them to 'soothe or rock' is a form of distraction though. And a good one. When a toddler is tired or over stimulated, this is exactly what they need. I'm referring to punishing a child because they don't want to give up the fire truck.

 

[Emily Lake]

Removing them to 'soothe or rock' is a form of distraction though. And a good one. When a toddler is tired or over stimulated, this is exactly what they need. I'm referring to punishing a child because they don't want to give up the fire truck.

What do you do when they're six, and they repeatedly throw kicking-screaming-meltdowns when they don't get their way? When they throw things and break things and call their parents names and refuse to stay in their room? When they respond with "I don't have to do what you tell me"?

 

[Playball40]

Removing them to 'soothe or rock' is a form of distraction though. And a good one. When a toddler is tired or over stimulated, this is exactly what they need. I'm referring to punishing a child because they don't want to give up the fire truck.

What do you do when they're six, and they repeatedly throw kicking-screaming-meltdowns when they don't get their way? When they throw things and break things and call their parents names and refuse to stay in their room? When they respond with "I don't have to do what you tell me"?

at SIX????? Get them psychologically evaluated.

 

[Emily Lake]

What do you do when they're six, and they repeatedly throw kicking-screaming-meltdowns when they don't get their way? When they throw things and break things and call their parents names and refuse to stay in their room? When they respond with "I don't have to do what you tell me"?

at SIX????? Get them psychologically evaluated.

Seems to be pretty common in six year olds. The breaking things, not so much, but the rest of it I've observed in several, all unrelated, all from stable non-spanking homes, with loving caring parents.

 

[fromderinside]

Really?

The point of authoritarian corporal punishment is to disrupt ongoing behavior. It is to initiate into the human group that humans are violent and that those in authority are permitted to provide for such systems and measures.

Yes. You dont really read what you write, you just read what was in your mind writing it.

In this case mind and page agree.

 

[laughing dog]

at SIX????? Get them psychologically evaluated.

Seems to be pretty common in six year olds.

Not to any six year olds I have know. Hell, it isn't common in any aged child I have know.

 

[Sajara]

Seems to be pretty common in six year olds.

Not to any six year olds I have know. Hell, it isn't common in any aged child I have know.

Seriously? It's awfully common...and yes, even in six year olds.

 

[fromderinside]

Seems to be pretty common in six year olds.

Not to any six year olds I have know. Hell, it isn't common in any aged child I have know.

Sure it is for kids raised by parents who cater to brats when they are two. The parents should receive psychological training.

 

[laughing dog]

Not to any six year olds I have know. Hell, it isn't common in any aged child I have know.

Seriously? It's awfully common...and yes, even in six year olds.

I must have lived in special places because it has not been common in my experience.

 

[fromderinside]

Seriously? It's awfully common...and yes, even in six year olds.

I must have lived in special places because it has not been common in my experience.

FYI 1: Toddler tantrums: taming the terrible twos http://www.kidspot.com.au/Toddler-B...-taming-the-terrible-twos+5973+27+article.htm An 'let's ignore this event' comes when the child is looking directly at you when it screams and thrashes about. Be sure to be a caring parent by attending to things that may have precipitated this.

FYI 2 Temper Tantrums: Help, My Kid Won't Calm Down! Practical advice for parents http://www.aboutourkids.org/article...id_won039t_calm_down_practical_advice_parents

Obviously there are enough of us here for such to be well studied, even treated in social and developmental psychology classes to the point of having specialists who specialize on these wee little one complexes.

 

[RavenSky]

I must have lived in special places because it has not been common in my experience.

FYI 1: Toddler tantrums: taming the terrible twos http://www.kidspot.com.au/Toddler-B...-taming-the-terrible-twos+5973+27+article.htm An 'let's ignore this event' comes when the child is looking directly at you when it screams and thrashes about. Be sure to be a caring parent by attending to things that may have precipitated this.

FYI 2 Temper Tantrums: Help, My Kid Won't Calm Down! Practical advice for parents http://www.aboutourkids.org/article...id_won039t_calm_down_practical_advice_parents

Obviously there are enough of us here for such to be well studied, even treated in social and developmental psychology classes to the point of having specialists who specialize on these wee little one complexes.

This is not a description of a toddler tantrum:

What do you do when they're six, and they repeatedly throw kicking-screaming-meltdowns when they don't get their way? When they throw things and break things and call their parents names and refuse to stay in their room? When they respond with "I don't have to do what you tell me"?

But even if it were, note that the articles you posted were very clear that "spanking" is NOT the answer.

 

[RavenSky]

Been meaning to post this:

I have dear friends who spank their kids, and I always try to talk to them about the science of it. They always respond with, "I know what's best for my kids, just like you know what's best for yours." Which is exactly what I'd say if someone told me that I was doing it wrong. Every kid is different. Every kid has their needs.
However, during those discussions, I'd say there is science that backs up doing something other than spanking. They'd always ask for specifics. I never had them. Until now. So here's an infographic explaining what 36,000 people and 88 studies found.
The biggest takeaway for me? Even if you spank with control, discipline, and good intent, your kids are more likely to have depression and engage in aggressive behavior in adulthood.

http://www.upworthy.com/the-science...pens-to-spanked-kids-when-they-grow-up?c=ufb1

 

[Davka]

FYI 1: Toddler tantrums: taming the terrible twos http://www.kidspot.com.au/Toddler-B...-taming-the-terrible-twos+5973+27+article.htm An 'let's ignore this event' comes when the child is looking directly at you when it screams and thrashes about. Be sure to be a caring parent by attending to things that may have precipitated this.

FYI 2 Temper Tantrums: Help, My Kid Won't Calm Down! Practical advice for parents http://www.aboutourkids.org/article...id_won039t_calm_down_practical_advice_parents

Obviously there are enough of us here for such to be well studied, even treated in social and developmental psychology classes to the point of having specialists who specialize on these wee little one complexes.

This is not a description of a toddler tantrum:

What do you do when they're six, and they repeatedly throw kicking-screaming-meltdowns when they don't get their way? When they throw things and break things and call their parents names and refuse to stay in their room? When they respond with "I don't have to do what you tell me"?

But even if it were, note that the articles you posted were very clear that "spanking" is NOT the answer.

...and yet it works when nothing else will.

 

[Juma]

This is not a description of a toddler tantrum:

What do you do when they're six, and they repeatedly throw kicking-screaming-meltdowns when they don't get their way? When they throw things and break things and call their parents names and refuse to stay in their room? When they respond with "I don't have to do what you tell me"?

But even if it were, note that the articles you posted were very clear that "spanking" is NOT the answer.

...and yet it works when nothing else will.

Works? Killing the child also "works"...

 

[Davka]

This is not a description of a toddler tantrum:

What do you do when they're six, and they repeatedly throw kicking-screaming-meltdowns when they don't get their way? When they throw things and break things and call their parents names and refuse to stay in their room? When they respond with "I don't have to do what you tell me"?

But even if it were, note that the articles you posted were very clear that "spanking" is NOT the answer.

...and yet it works when nothing else will.

Works? Killing the child also "works"...

Not so. Dead children won't do their chores, or go to bed, or pretty much do anything they're supposed to.

 

[fromderinside]

Nit picked. Pick accepted. He's six. However it is a tantrum. Its just one with a sense of entitlement and justice which I would have ended early on with a little flip of my "ignore the little screamer" switch. Just for the jury the six year old was a child from a permissive household where punishment in most any form including time out was not used. The child had been doing such since it was two.

Well there you go. Spanking inappropriate but withholding love apparently worked. I don't favor punishment in any form. I just take a patient view and reward the little brat with a hug and cuddle for ending his little display of self and coming back into the family. Then I'd probably find out what was actually troubling the child and adjust appropriately.