Does anyone actually believe Trump?

[Loren Pechtel]

The majority of Americans can barely pay $300 a month for insurance. When Bernie raises the number to $500 or $600 a month, how are Americans just going to be able to pay that no problem? I KNOW they would rather pay the $300 and take a chance on getting sick over paying $500-$600 a month and free health care if you get sick.

His cultists hear "Free healthcare!" and clap like seals. They don't hear "Higher monthly payments!"

Another factor here--the price difference will be less. The current price differential is because of adverse selection--anyone who doesn't expect substantial medical expenses chooses the cheaper plan.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Note how he has massively flipped on the threat of Covid-19. The projections of the experts didn't change, it's just he was becoming a Baghdad Bob.

And remember how he didn't want to bring the people from the Grand Princess off the ship because he didn't want to increase the infected count? It's not like moving them changed the number of infected people one bit, it's just he could pretend they weren't US cases. (And then he proceeded to fuck things up badly by not providing PPE for the people dealing with them.)

Hannity was just talking about how Trump's travel ban did more to curb the spread of the virus than anything else would've. He then showed a clip of Biden saying "the travel ban is racist." So we know Biden wouldn't have eneacted the travel ban. It would've been worse.

"Did the media praise Trump for the travel ban? Nope, they demonized him and called him racist like Biden did," Hannity added. "In the mind of anti-Trump cultists, Trump can do no right."

Just admit the travel ban is a GOOD THING. Keep in mind China also lied to us about the virus at first.

Hannity talking about it--your first presumption should be he's wrong. And in this case that's definitely the case: Genetics paints a clear picture of how it really got here--and most cases trace back to the San Francisco area in very late 2019 or possibly very early 2020. (Genetic tracing is very good at showing ancestry, it's not quite so hot at showing exactly when.)

And the ban was problematic--it wasn't based on the actual threat. There's also no reason for it anymore--passengers coming from China are about the lowest risk at present.

 

[Bronzeage]

The majority of Americans can barely pay $300 a month for insurance. When Bernie raises the number to $500 or $600 a month, how are Americans just going to be able to pay that no problem? I KNOW they would rather pay the $300 and take a chance on getting sick over paying $500-$600 a month and free health care if you get sick.

His cultists hear "Free healthcare!" and clap like seals. They don't hear "Higher monthly payments!"

What planet have you been living on? Anyone who can "barely pay $300 a month is very likely eligible for an ACA insurance policy, which will probably cost less than $100 a month, and likely to be much less. The amount of the premium paid by the policy holder depends upon income and family size.

One of President Trump's many promises during the 2016 campaign was "Healthcare insurance for everyone and lower premiums." He said he had a plan to repeal and replace Obamacare in the first 30 days. The plan never appeared and what eventually made it to Congress could not be passed by either the House or the Senate, despite a GOP majority.
If there are any cultists in this mix, it's the people who voted for Trump and then never asked why he did not live up to his promises.

Here's a question for you: Suppose you do not have any healthcare insurance, either private or government, and you are hit by a car while crossing the street. You are taken to a hospital, where your traumatic injuries are treated. You don't have any assets or income. Who pays for your treatment?

Apparently nobody would pay. I've known people who couldn't pay their hospital bill and they just tore it up. You can't go to jail for not paying a hospital bill. I suppose this would be the Bernie Bro mentality. Have a doctor fix you up and then say "screw 'em."

It's the same with people who can't pay their credit cards. They just ignore them and stop caring.

I guess we'll call this system Half-lifecare, where hospitals provide care at no cost. The doctor doesn't get paid, the company that sells scalpels and bandages doesn't get paid, and then the hospital knocks a few dollars off the light bill, because you didn't have insurance and couldn't pay your bill.

That's not the way it works. The truth is, I pay your bill. Me and everybody else who does have two dimes to rub together. Medical expenses rise for everybody who can pay, and the hospital is allowed to deduct bad debts from their taxes. As it turns out, Half-lifecare is not free after all.

What Half-lifecare is, is very expensive. Those who can't pay medical bills don't get medical care until it's urgent. This means the preventive care which reduces the need for Half-lifecare never happens. They are seen by emergency rooms, which is the most expensive medical care in the entire system. We could also call this Too Little-Too Late care. I'll still be expected to cough up money for it, me and everybody else.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Apparently nobody would pay. I've known people who couldn't pay their hospital bill and they just tore it up. You can't go to jail for not paying a hospital bill. I suppose this would be the Bernie Bro mentality. Have a doctor fix you up and then say "screw 'em."

It's the same with people who can't pay their credit cards. They just ignore them and stop caring.

I guess we'll call this system Half-lifecare, where hospitals provide care at no cost. The doctor doesn't get paid, the company that sells scalpels and bandages doesn't get paid, and then the hospital knocks a few dollars off the light bill, because you didn't have insurance and couldn't pay your bill.

That's not the way it works. The truth is, I pay your bill. Me and everybody else who does have two dimes to rub together. Medical expenses rise for everybody who can pay, and the hospital is allowed to deduct bad debts from their taxes. As it turns out, Half-lifecare is not free after all.

What Half-lifecare is, is very expensive. Those who can't pay medical bills don't get medical care until it's urgent. This means the preventive care which reduces the need for Half-lifecare never happens. They are seen by emergency rooms, which is the most expensive medical care in the entire system. We could also call this Too Little-Too Late care. I'll still be expected to cough up money for it, me and everybody else.

The reality is somewhere in between. Those who are effectively judgement-proof will likely just tear up a hospital bill.

 

[Bronzeage]

Apparently nobody would pay. I've known people who couldn't pay their hospital bill and they just tore it up. You can't go to jail for not paying a hospital bill. I suppose this would be the Bernie Bro mentality. Have a doctor fix you up and then say "screw 'em."

It's the same with people who can't pay their credit cards. They just ignore them and stop caring.

I guess we'll call this system Half-lifecare, where hospitals provide care at no cost. The doctor doesn't get paid, the company that sells scalpels and bandages doesn't get paid, and then the hospital knocks a few dollars off the light bill, because you didn't have insurance and couldn't pay your bill.

That's not the way it works. The truth is, I pay your bill. Me and everybody else who does have two dimes to rub together. Medical expenses rise for everybody who can pay, and the hospital is allowed to deduct bad debts from their taxes. As it turns out, Half-lifecare is not free after all.

What Half-lifecare is, is very expensive. Those who can't pay medical bills don't get medical care until it's urgent. This means the preventive care which reduces the need for Half-lifecare never happens. They are seen by emergency rooms, which is the most expensive medical care in the entire system. We could also call this Too Little-Too Late care. I'll still be expected to cough up money for it, me and everybody else.

The reality is somewhere in between. Those who are effectively judgement-proof will likely just tear up a hospital bill.

So, when someone tears up a bill, or more commonly, does not have wealth or income and cannot pay, who pays this bill?

 

[Patooka]

Appeals to emotions? You mean facts?

Bernie used to be against "millionaires and billionaires." Now he just rails against the billionaires. What changed? Bernie became a millionaire, of course!

The snake Bernie is the one you should be afraid of. Suppose you pay $300 a month for health insurance. Under Bernie's plan, you would most likely pay $500 or $600 a month, but if you get sick, the treatment is free! So, in order to win with Bernie's plan, you need to get sick! Pretty snake-like stuff, huh?

Do you ever actually base anything on fact on not just bullshit you pull from your rectum?

View attachment 26640

How dare you use facts and reality to prove how wrong Half-life is.

 

[Elixir]

The majority of Americans can barely pay $300 a month for insurance. When Bernie raises the number to $500 or $600 a month, how are Americans just going to be able to pay that no problem?

I have an idea for that person about how they might be able to pay the extra $300 a month. How about this - they stiff the private health insurance company for that $600 a month premium, then take the entire family out for a nice $300 dinner.

Just wait and see if the private insurance company tries to collect from them NOW THAT THEY HAVE INSURANCE THROUGH MFA.

 

[Elixir]

The majority of Americans can barely pay $300 a month for insurance. When Bernie raises the number to $500 or $600 a month, how are Americans just going to be able to pay that no problem?

I have an idea for that person about how they might be able to pay the extra $300 a month. How about this - they stiff the private health insurance company for that $600 a month premium, then take the entire family out for a nice $300 dinner.

Just wait and see if the private insurance company tries to collect from them NOW THAT THEY HAVE INSURANCE THROUGH MFA.

A few years ago I had private insurance with a $10,000 deductible and a dizzying array of co-pays, limits and exemptions, and it cost nearly $900 a month.
Now I have Medicare with zero deductible, no copays (I pay a little extra for those zeros), I get vastly improved services and coverage and have been using the medical system for the first time in my life because I can afford it at less than $300/mo.. My wife became eligible for Medicare last year, and that has saved us another $6000 a year. And we don't have that $20,000 upfront exposure or the hundreds of thousands or millions in exposure if something truly catastrophic should happen, like we did when we had private insurance "coverage".

Only an utter fool could remained convinced that for-profit health care is in any way cheaper or better than single payer.

ETA: I am not endorsing mandatory MFA. If there are enough utter fools around to support private insurance companies, let them have it. People that foolish are going to be separated from their money in short order regardless.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

What's even more baffling is that, it's entirely un-American to not fully back competition in any given market place. With a single payer option, it guarantees that any private insurance companies will face very stiff competition indeed and will therefore be forced to come up with ways to actually beat the government option, which can only benefit everyone.

But of course, it's never about deepening competition with alt-right asswipes (or, unfortunately, alt-left unicorn-chasers); it's all about destroying competition.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Whether or not Trump is an honest man is neither here nor there. There is a greater consideration. I think for many people who's future is not so secure, there is a sense of desperation and they need someone to tell them it's going to get better. Someone who isn't just another politician who have shown time and again to be full of shit. And they are going to defend their hope for the future no matter what. Perhaps the thinking is:

See, you have something no one can take from you. You can learn most anything you want. You get to choose what you want to do in life. Well, I don't have that. I don't get to choose. I can not be that or that or that. My options are limited. So what do I get? I get to go find a job.
Well this 1% as you call them gave me a job, a job with a good paycheck. I am thankful for that and I will show my appreciation by working hard for that paycheck. Nothing wrong with that, is there? And I will support the politicians who tell me they will protect my job from that man coming into the country illegally. That man who may be working in the fields today but perhaps tomorrow he will try and take my good job. They're not going to take your job, your job takes years of training. Mine doesn't. They're going to try and take my job. Well, I'm supporting the politicians who are supporting me. I'd be a fool not to. I've got a family to take care of. What part of this don't you understand?
But now it's all dying. So many of the good jobs, gone and I can not do these new jobs. So few jobs left for so many of us who don't get to choose. So this 1% took advantage of the situation. Started paying us peanuts. But what could I do? What choice do I have? At least I still have a job. It doesn't pay so much anymore but as I've said, I've got a family to take care of. My other option is to take a leap of faith, to switch sides. Side with the people who get to choose, who aren't going to suffer, who put every suffering group of humans before me. I am last, and you keep insulting me. Meanwhile, you still want to let more illegals into the country. I guess you really don't get it, do you?

And along comes Trump."He thinks like us." This is the Trump supporter statement that resonates with me. Further:

The left hates him. Other wealthy people hate him. The Republican Party even hates him but they'll kiss his ass because they have to, because they need him, because I put him in office. Is he a liar? Yes. Is he getting everything done he said he would? I think he's trying. Has he made my life any better? Not really but deep down inside I didn't really think he would. But everyone tries to shit on him the way they shit on me. So go ahead with your insults. At least for once I get to say, fuck you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The reality is somewhere in between. Those who are effectively judgement-proof will likely just tear up a hospital bill.

So, when someone tears up a bill, or more commonly, does not have wealth or income and cannot pay, who pays this bill?

That's why hospitals way over charge--to cover the cost of those who can't pay.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I think for many people who's future is not so secure, there is a sense of desperation and they need someone to tell them it's going to get better.

No, they need someone to actually make things better, not just lie about it.

Perhaps the thinking is: ...That man who may be working in the fields today but perhaps tomorrow he will try and take my good job.

That is the thinking, but it's manufactured, not organic. How do we know this? Because no one has ever lost a job to someone who works in the fields "today." That simply does not happen, so it can't be based on any kind of direct experience and therefore must be artificially implanted.

And along comes Trump."He thinks like us."

Except that, the thoughts are, once again, false, so at best he is simply using the trigger words implanted in these particular groups. What's more, the actual thoughts they are referring to in that sentiment are NOT "they're out to take our jobs," but "I hate them and want to openly hate them."

This is the Trump supporter statement that resonates with me. Further:

The left hates him. Other wealthy people hate him. The Republican Party even hates him but they'll kiss his ass because they have to, because they need him, because I put him in office. Is he a liar? Yes. Is he getting everything done he said he would? I think he's trying. Has he made my life any better? Not really but deep down inside I didn't really think he would. But everyone tries to shit on him the way they shit on me. So go ahead with your insults. At least for once I get to say, fuck you.

Not a bad assessment, if this were 2015/2016. But they got to say "fuck you" thousands of times over since then. They don't get to do that anymore, because now it's been nothing but Trump fucking them.

 

[Elixir]

... now it's been nothing but Trump fucking them.

Not according to Trump. And who do you think they believe?

 

[Bronzeage]

The reality is somewhere in between. Those who are effectively judgement-proof will likely just tear up a hospital bill.

So, when someone tears up a bill, or more commonly, does not have wealth or income and cannot pay, who pays this bill?

That's why hospitals way over charge--to cover the cost of those who can't pay.

This means what you call a "way over charge" is not an overcharge at all. It's fair compensation for the cost of delivering healthcare in the US. In fact, all who actually pay their hospital bill, whether out of their own pocket or through their insurance premiums, are paying the bill for those who can't, or won't.

This is the strange irony of conservatives who don't want to pay for healthcare expenses for those who can't pay. They are paying now, and paying more than it has to cost. For some perverse reason, they want a healthcare system which makes life uncomfortable, and maybe shorter, for the poor, and are willing to pay extra for that.

 

[JohnG]

Whether or not Trump is an honest man is neither here nor there. There is a greater consideration. I think for many people who's future is not so secure, there is a sense of desperation and they need someone to tell them it's going to get better. Someone who isn't just another politician who have shown time and again to be full of shit. And they are going to defend their hope for the future no matter what. Perhaps the thinking is:

See, you have something no one can take from you. You can learn most anything you want. You get to choose what you want to do in life. Well, I don't have that. I don't get to choose. I can not be that or that or that. My options are limited. So what do I get? I get to go find a job.
Well this 1% as you call them gave me a job, a job with a good paycheck. I am thankful for that and I will show my appreciation by working hard for that paycheck. Nothing wrong with that, is there? And I will support the politicians who tell me they will protect my job from that man coming into the country illegally. That man who may be working in the fields today but perhaps tomorrow he will try and take my good job. They're not going to take your job, your job takes years of training. Mine doesn't. They're going to try and take my job. Well, I'm supporting the politicians who are supporting me. I'd be a fool not to. I've got a family to take care of. What part of this don't you understand?
But now it's all dying. So many of the good jobs, gone and I can not do these new jobs. So few jobs left for so many of us who don't get to choose. So this 1% took advantage of the situation. Started paying us peanuts. But what could I do? What choice do I have? At least I still have a job. It doesn't pay so much anymore but as I've said, I've got a family to take care of. My other option is to take a leap of faith, to switch sides. Side with the people who get to choose, who aren't going to suffer, who put every suffering group of humans before me. I am last, and you keep insulting me. Meanwhile, you still want to let more illegals into the country. I guess you really don't get it, do you?

And along comes Trump."He thinks like us." This is the Trump supporter statement that resonates with me. Further:

The left hates him. Other wealthy people hate him. The Republican Party even hates him but they'll kiss his ass because they have to, because they need him, because I put him in office. Is he a liar? Yes. Is he getting everything done he said he would? I think he's trying. Has he made my life any better? Not really but deep down inside I didn't really think he would. But everyone tries to shit on him the way they shit on me. So go ahead with your insults. At least for once I get to say, fuck you.

That's an interesting perspective and it sounds right. I never thought it went that deep but it probably does. My theory is more simple: He was on TV and played a successful boss-like character named after himself and it was enough to brand him as a successful person (Max Power). Combined with some "help" in his campaign it was enough to put him over the line.

Then it got interesting. A big part of the population was shocked and outraged that their country elected a cheeseball side-show TV rich guy to be POTUS. Trump voters dug their heels in not to be ridiculed, siding with every stupid thing he does, even elevating him to god like status to show the Libtards they don't care what they think. Serious tribalism set in, and that's what I think drives Trump supporters to ignore his lies and gaffs.

I think tribalism is the answer to the OP

 

[TV and credit cards]

Whether or not Trump is an honest man is neither here nor there. There is a greater consideration. I think for many people who's future is not so secure, there is a sense of desperation and they need someone to tell them it's going to get better. Someone who isn't just another politician who have shown time and again to be full of shit. And they are going to defend their hope for the future no matter what. Perhaps the thinking is:

See, you have something no one can take from you. You can learn most anything you want. You get to choose what you want to do in life. Well, I don't have that. I don't get to choose. I can not be that or that or that. My options are limited. So what do I get? I get to go find a job.
Well this 1% as you call them gave me a job, a job with a good paycheck. I am thankful for that and I will show my appreciation by working hard for that paycheck. Nothing wrong with that, is there? And I will support the politicians who tell me they will protect my job from that man coming into the country illegally. That man who may be working in the fields today but perhaps tomorrow he will try and take my good job. They're not going to take your job, your job takes years of training. Mine doesn't. They're going to try and take my job. Well, I'm supporting the politicians who are supporting me. I'd be a fool not to. I've got a family to take care of. What part of this don't you understand?
But now it's all dying. So many of the good jobs, gone and I can not do these new jobs. So few jobs left for so many of us who don't get to choose. So this 1% took advantage of the situation. Started paying us peanuts. But what could I do? What choice do I have? At least I still have a job. It doesn't pay so much anymore but as I've said, I've got a family to take care of. My other option is to take a leap of faith, to switch sides. Side with the people who get to choose, who aren't going to suffer, who put every suffering group of humans before me. I am last, and you keep insulting me. Meanwhile, you still want to let more illegals into the country. I guess you really don't get it, do you?

And along comes Trump."He thinks like us." This is the Trump supporter statement that resonates with me. Further:

The left hates him. Other wealthy people hate him. The Republican Party even hates him but they'll kiss his ass because they have to, because they need him, because I put him in office. Is he a liar? Yes. Is he getting everything done he said he would? I think he's trying. Has he made my life any better? Not really but deep down inside I didn't really think he would. But everyone tries to shit on him the way they shit on me. So go ahead with your insults. At least for once I get to say, fuck you.

That's an interesting perspective and it sounds right. I never thought it went that deep but it probably does. My theory is more simple: He was on TV and played a successful boss-like character named after himself and it was enough to brand him as a successful person (Max Power). Combined with some "help" in his campaign it was enough to put him over the line.

Then it got interesting. A big part of the population was shocked and outraged that their country elected a cheeseball side-show TV rich guy to be POTUS. Trump voters dug their heels in not to be ridiculed, siding with every stupid thing he does, even elevating him to god like status to show the Libtards they don't care what they think. Serious tribalism set in, and that's what I think drives Trump supporters to ignore his lies and gaffs.

I think tribalism is the answer to the OP

I'm sure there is truth to both. Trump supporters are not one and the same. My speculation as to their mindset stems from years in the navy of living in close quarters with people from various backgrounds, particularly poorer and less educated. This and listening to the opinions of a certain AT&T tech I spent a morning with: a black Trump supporter. The first I'd met, who, once I got him going on politics, I just sat back and listened. In between all the whataboutisms, there was his fear. He had 18 years with the company. They were expecting a round of layoffs. Given his seniority and pay, he was expecting they would get rid of him. It's this helplessness, particularly later in life that drives people to cling to and defend what is promising them something in the future. Many of these people are just scraping by, worried about keeping a roof over their family's head. So they can listen to this con man Trump or they can listen to liberal elitists who's concern for them ranges from ignore to insult.

 

[repoman]

By the way, even if this covid-19 crisis gets nastier with limited air travel, there will likely be 100k H1Bs flown in this spring anyway.

Something Trump supporter assume he will have stopped.

 

[ZiprHead]

Just asked my trumper BiL how his 401k is doing, He said "just fine". time.

 

[crazyfingers]

Unfortunately too many people, to my bewilderment, actually believe what Trump says.

I knew next to nothing about Trump before he entered the campaign for president. To me he was a rich nobody.

However since the campaign it had become clear that he is a lie machine. He has zero credibility. I accept nothing he says unless it's verified by an independent source. In most cases it's not.

 

[Elixir]

Just asked my trumper BiL how his 401k is doing, He said "just fine". time.

Did you ask what sectors he is invested in? 10:1 he doesn't know.
OTOH, if I had 10m in the market I wouldn't be real bothered to lose a third or half of it.