Electric-Car Charging Network Proposed

[lpetrich]

Advocates Question AOC and Levin’s ‘EV Freedom Bill’ – Streetsblog USA

Sustainability advocates were unimpressed by a new proposal by two House Democrats that would a mandate a comprehensive network of electric vehicle charging stations — saying that the so called “EV Freedom Act” would not significantly reduce greenhouse gases and would maintain a car-based transportation system that is killing tens of thousands of Americans annually.

So it's too carheaded.

Activists also jumped on Levin’s suggestion that lawmakers “need to be able to ensure that EV drivers can drive all across this country and never worry about being able to recharge their vehicles.”

Really? As Daniel O’Brian tweeted, “We should develop a nationwide network of high-speed RAIL and stop our need for everyone having a car.”

But high-speed trains are mostly good for relatively populated areas, like big cities, so they have limitations. We are stuck with cars for the less populated areas.

But some activists are more sympathetic.

Doug Gordon on Twitter: "I know activists think this isn't bold enough, but my take is that it's mostly fine. In places where (for now) the only way to get around is via car, make it easy for people to go electric. Cities, however, should be doing everything they can to get rid of cars, EV or otherwise. https://t.co/1EEMlp8MLQ" / Twitter
noting AOC's tweet on this subject.

 

[bigfield]

This plan is not going to reduce emission by much, ceteris paribus. But ceteris ain't paribus; people are going to be buying electric vehicles regardless. A national charging network is an inducement for people who are waiting until electric is as convenient as gas.

...would maintain a car-based transportation system that is killing tens of thousands of Americans annually.

Americans would probably give up guns before they give up cars.

Don't get me wrong, though. Mass transit is great. I think everyone except me should use buses and trains.

 

[southernhybrid]

Charging stations are already very common along the interstates and I don't see why the government has to get involved, especially since it's going to be quite a few years before most people will be able to afford an electric vehicle. I drive a hybrid, plus we don't drive nearly as much as we once did, so we are using very little gas these days.

I didn't read any of the links. Has anyone mentioned that having an EV isn't so great if your power source is coming from coal or oil? If that's already been discussed, just ignore me.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2018/01/24/more-electric-vehicles-mean-more-coal-and-natural-gas/#170cb19d2a37

But there's much more to the electric car story than what you might be hearing. The anti-fossil-fuel business tends to forget and/or ignore the fact that electric cars are, obviously, just that ... powered by electricity, a secondary energy source that is mostly generated by the combustion of coal and natural gas both here in the U.S. and around the world.

There are measures to moderate new power needs when adding more electric cars to the grid, such as demand response, but the takeaway is undeniable: Both in the U.S. and around the world, for every 10 times an electric car goes to "power up," it will be depending on coal and natural gas almost 6.5 of those times.

Electrification of the U.S. vehicle fleet is going to increase electricity demand. This is a reminder as we continue to debate the future of existing base-load power. While the U.S. Department of Energy's proposal to reward coal and nuclear plants didn’t pass a Federal Energy Regulatory Commission review, the need for caution over losing existing capacity remains. Once these vital plants are retired, there’s no putting the genie back into the bottle.

Regardless, I think this is something that the private sector should be able to handle, especially since the private sector is already rapidly installing power stations. Not everything needs to be done by government. But, shouldn't we be more concerned about changing the electric grid over to cleaner sources of power before we go nuts over EV?

 

[steve_bank]

Public charging systems is a case of best left to individual states.

There is no national utility. It will not get done at a national level.

 

[Tigers!]

Don't get me wrong, though. Mass transit is great. I think everyone except me should use buses and trains.

Trams, lad, trams

 

[bigfield]

Don't get me wrong, though. Mass transit is great. I think everyone except me should use buses and trains.

Trams, lad, trams

I don't think these are practical for mass transit.

 

[steve_bank]

Public transportation in the Puget Sound area is reported to be rising. Reporting says Younger people are opting out of caes for a lot of trips. Parking is expensive.

I can not drive anymore. On the buses there is a wide generational mix. People in suits. There is a streetcar line near where I live. I use it to get around between China town and stores on the other end of the lone. During the day usually full during commute times. My senor pass is $36/month unlimited. Don't know what the full pass costs for non seniors.

 

[Tigers!]

Don't get me wrong, though. Mass transit is great. I think everyone except me should use buses and trains.

Trams, lad, trams

I don't think these are practical for mass transit.

Of course not! You need 2 horses pulled that load.

 

[KeepTalking]

H.R.5770 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): To establish a national network of electric vehicle charging stations, and for other purposes. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress -- the actual bill.

It is sponsored by Andy Levin, cosponsored only by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Reps. Andy Levin, Ocasio-Cortez Introduce Transformative Bill to Create Electric Vehicle Charging Infrastructure | Representative Andy Levin - at his Congressional site

It would have to overcome fossil fuel, auto industry lobbies.

There are EV unintended consequences. Here in Washington tax revenue from gasoline is declining. Increased fuel efficiency plus electric vehicles.

What is being considered is a mileage based tax to support road infrastructure. Tax EVs. I'd also like to see bike riders taxed it is only fair is it not?

How would you even implement a mileage based tax? Will there be toll booths every few miles to check your mileage and make you pay for your mileage since the last booth? Seems unworkable.

Why not tax the power being used to charge the battery? This is assuming that the chargers are not free, and one will have to pay for the power coming from the charger. If that is not the case, then why not make that the case, and then add a tax to that? Seems like a fairly straight forward solution if EVs truly are the reason for reduced revenue from gas taxes. This would also give the state incentive for installing their own charging stations, so that they get to take in profit from selling the power to begin with, and gain further revenue from the tax.

 

[southernhybrid]

Don't get me wrong, though. Mass transit is great. I think everyone except me should use buses and trains.

Trams, lad, trams

Mass transit is wonderful unless you live in a city or rural area that has no or very ineffective mass transit. I grew up riding a public bus part way to school, then I walked the other mile. But, the nearest elementary school near me literally has parents lining up to pick up their precious little ones about an hour before school lets out. They don't even trust the school buses anymore, which I partly understand since a lot of them don't even have seat belts.

We have no mass transit here and attempts to get more mass transit have been obstructed. So, unless local and state governments start investing lots of money in mass transit, we're stuck with our cars. And, for long distance travel, cars leave a much smaller carbon footprint than airplanes do.

I think our government needs to try to work towards changing the power grid to more environmentally friendly sources of fuel before we worry about EV charing stations. There are plenty of them on the interstate located in hotel and restaurant parking lots. Plus I've been told that Tesla has installed quite a few as well.

 

[skepticalbip]

Don't get me wrong, though. Mass transit is great. I think everyone except me should use buses and trains.

Trams, lad, trams

I don't think these are practical for mass transit.

North Korea has the solution....

 

[steve_bank]

H.R.5770 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): To establish a national network of electric vehicle charging stations, and for other purposes. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress -- the actual bill.

It is sponsored by Andy Levin, cosponsored only by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Reps. Andy Levin, Ocasio-Cortez Introduce Transformative Bill to Create Electric Vehicle Charging Infrastructure | Representative Andy Levin - at his Congressional site

It would have to overcome fossil fuel, auto industry lobbies.

There are EV unintended consequences. Here in Washington tax revenue from gasoline is declining. Increased fuel efficiency plus electric vehicles.

What is being considered is a mileage based tax to support road infrastructure. Tax EVs. I'd also like to see bike riders taxed it is only fair is it not?

How would you even implement a mileage based tax? Will there be toll booths every few miles to check your mileage and make you pay for your mileage since the last booth? Seems unworkable.

Why not tax the power being used to charge the battery? This is assuming that the chargers are not free, and one will have to pay for the power coming from the charger. If that is not the case, then why not make that the case, and then add a tax to that? Seems like a fairly straight forward solution if EVs truly are the reason for reduced revenue from gas taxes. This would also give the state incentive for installing their own charging stations, so that they get to take in profit from selling the power to begin with, and gain further revenue from the tax.

l
What is being talked about is reading the speedometer which of course has fraud issues, and GPS. With modern cars mileage can be stored and read trough the IO port like emissions testing. I'd be surprised if car computers do not store mileage.

BTW Washington has ended all vehicle emissions testing citing modern cars and low emissions.

The reason being cited in our news media is lower overall gas consumption. Fossil fuel cars are definitely on the way out so funding roads has to be done some way..

I was thinking bicycle riders should be taxed....they get a free ride so to speak.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Americans would probably give up guns before they give up cars.

Don't get me wrong, though. Mass transit is great. I think everyone except me should use buses and trains.

The problem with mass transit is that it only works where there are masses of people.

I just spent 4 hours hiking in the desert this morning. Mass transit to a spot about 10 miles from the last inhabited area? It is admittedly a popular trailhead at this time of year as it's the primary access to a hot spring but it doesn't amount to a bus more than every few hours and the demand is very variable based on the weather.

 

[bigfield]

The problem with mass transit is that it only works where there are masses of people.

The problem with mass transit is that it doesn't wait for me, it doesn't take me exactly where I'm going, and I have to share it with other people.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think our government needs to try to work towards changing the power grid to more environmentally friendly sources of fuel before we worry about EV charging stations. There are plenty of them on the interstate located in hotel and restaurant parking lots. Plus I've been told that Tesla has installed quite a few as well.

When you buy a Tesla you can drive anywhere in the country because they have chargers located appropriately. I think if you buy anything but the model 3 the charge is already paid for when you buy the vehicle, not sure if that lasts years or forever. The model 3 you have to pay at the charger.

But the software guides you to the next charger, tells you how many are open, and how many miles you have left on your charge. It's pretty slick. Plus you can charge at home. My son owns a model 3 and the system works great.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem with mass transit is that it only works where there are masses of people.

The problem with mass transit is that it doesn't wait for me, it doesn't take me exactly where I'm going, and I have to share it with other people.

Subways can actually be superior to private transport in crowded cities. When we are visiting her relatives the subway (which avoid traffic) is faster than a car even when you consider walking to the station. Cars are only superior when you have cargo.

It's just that on or beyond the edges public transport fails pretty badly.

 

[Jokodo]

This plan is not going to reduce emission by much, ceteris paribus. But ceteris ain't paribus; people are going to be buying electric vehicles regardless. A national charging network is an inducement for people who are waiting until electric is as convenient as gas.

...would maintain a car-based transportation system that is killing tens of thousands of Americans annually.

Americans would probably give up guns before they give up cars.

Don't get me wrong, though. Mass transit is great. I think everyone except me should use buses and trains.

You just made a great argument for public subsidies if buses and trains: even those who never use them benefit from others using them.

 

[Jokodo]

Don't get me wrong, though. Mass transit is great. I think everyone except me should use buses and trains.

Trams, lad, trams

Mass transit is wonderful unless you live in a city or rural area that has no or very ineffective mass transit. I grew up riding a public bus part way to school, then I walked the other mile. But, the nearest elementary school near me literally has parents lining up to pick up their precious little ones about an hour before school lets out. They don't even trust the school buses anymore, which I partly understand since a lot of them don't even have seat belts.

Technically, a bus with its higher inertia and an experienced driver is possibly safer without a seat belt than a lighter car driven by an amateur is with.

 

[KeepTalking]

How would you even implement a mileage based tax? Will there be toll booths every few miles to check your mileage and make you pay for your mileage since the last booth? Seems unworkable.

Why not tax the power being used to charge the battery? This is assuming that the chargers are not free, and one will have to pay for the power coming from the charger. If that is not the case, then why not make that the case, and then add a tax to that? Seems like a fairly straight forward solution if EVs truly are the reason for reduced revenue from gas taxes. This would also give the state incentive for installing their own charging stations, so that they get to take in profit from selling the power to begin with, and gain further revenue from the tax.

l
What is being talked about is reading the speedometer which of course has fraud issues, and GPS. With modern cars mileage can be stored and read trough the IO port like emissions testing. I'd be surprised if car computers do not store mileage.

BTW Washington has ended all vehicle emissions testing citing modern cars and low emissions.

Older cars do not have IO ports, would they then be exempt from the mileage tax once it is switched over from a gas tax? Also, given that the State is no longer doing emissions tests, when would the IO port get checked? It still seems like an unmanageable system. Collecting tax at charging stations, just like tax is currently collected at the pump seems like a much more workable solution.

The reason being cited in our news media is lower overall gas consumption. Fossil fuel cars are definitely on the way out so funding roads has to be done some way..

The simple solution would be to collect a fuel tax at the pump, and an electric charging tax at the charger.

I was thinking bicycle riders should be taxed....they get a free ride so to speak.

Just in case you are being serious here, bicycles weighing just a couple hundred pounds with the rider included, certainly cause little to no road wear as compared to vehicles weighing a ton or more. You might was well charge a walking tax as well.

 

[steve_bank]

Older cars do not have IO ports, would they then be exempt from the mileage tax once it is switched over from a gas tax? Also, given that the State is no longer doing emissions tests, when would the IO port get checked? It still seems like an unmanageable system. Collecting tax at charging stations, just like tax is currently collected at the pump seems like a much more workable solution.

The reason being cited in our news media is lower overall gas consumption. Fossil fuel cars are definitely on the way out so funding roads has to be done some way..

The simple solution would be to collect a fuel tax at the pump, and an electric charging tax at the charger.

I was thinking bicycle riders should be taxed....they get a free ride so to speak.

Just in case you are being serious here, bicycles weighing just a couple hundred pounds with the rider included, certainly cause little to no road wear as compared to vehicles weighing a ton or more. You might was well charge a walking tax as well.

Half serious. If all we had was bikes who pays for roads? Everybody wants services but nobody wants to pay. The Sanders platform, no problem everything is free.

As to implementations, it is all in the proposal stage. The Puget sound area already has automatic tolls by reading license plates.