Epstein arrested

[repoman]

I do not see how.

Well yeah, but that has to be proven, not assumed.


But in most US states that age is 16, not 18. So what's wrong with


Pedophilia means sexual attraction to a prepubescent child.

It's been a while since I saw someone argue against evolution of language. Pedophilia has changed usage without changing ethical implications, as an understanding of symmetrical consent has proliferated quietly through society.

Pedophilia has "eaten" the more obscure cutout that used to exist for ephebophilia, because we realize there is no ethical need to separate the two: adults having sex with children is abhorrent, as is anyone who tries to distract from, justify, or normalize such acts.

It's pedophilia. And anyone who wants to have sex with 16 year olds, other than ~16 year olds, is a pedophile.

In the same way that highly precise definitions of genders and gender pronouns will not take off barring a massive push in primary education...

Academically delineated categories between the ages that older men are attracted to will never take off.

 

[Derec]

It's been a while since I saw someone argue against evolution of language. Pedophilia has changed usage without changing ethical implications, as an understanding of symmetrical consent has proliferated quietly through society.

That word salad doesn't mean much. Yes, some people misuse the word, often deliberately, like the dishonest attack on Derschowitz.

Pedophilia has "eaten" the more obscure cutout that used to exist for ephebophilia, because we realize there is no ethical need to separate the two: adults having sex with children is abhorrent, as is anyone who tries to distract from, justify, or normalize such acts.

There certainly is. There is a huge difference between being sexually attracted to a 16 year old vs. an 8 year old. And a person who can't comprehend the difference is too far gone the rabbit hole of mindless moralizing to be helped.

.

It's pedophilia. And anyone who wants to have sex with 16 year olds, other than ~16 year olds, is a pedophile.

It's not. And again, 16 is legal in most US states, all of Canada, and most of Europe (and in many countries aoc is in fact even lower than 16!) To equate that with sex with prepubescent children is sick frankly.

 

[Jarhyn]

That word salad doesn't mean much. Yes, some people misuse the word, often deliberately, like the dishonest attack on Derschowitz.



There certainly is. There is a huge difference between being sexually attracted to a 16 year old vs. an 8 year old. And a person who can't comprehend the difference is too far gone the rabbit hole of mindless moralizing to be helped.

.

It's pedophilia. And anyone who wants to have sex with 16 year olds, other than ~16 year olds, is a pedophile.

It's not. And again, 16 is legal in most US states, all of Canada, and most of Europe (and in many countries aoc is in fact even lower than 16!) To equate that with sex with prepubescent children is sick frankly.

I repeat, it's pedophilia. The only ones who I generally see try to claim it isn't, who fight this, are pedophiles who want to groom young teenagers.

 

[Derec]

I repeat, it's pedophilia.

I repeat, it's not.

The only ones who I generally see try to claim it isn't, who fight this, are pedophiles who want to groom young teenagers.

If you have to accuse people of wanting to "groom young teenagers" just for disagreeing with you, then maybe your arguments are as weak as a wet paper towel.

 

[repoman]

So the Rotheram gang were dirty old men and not pedophile?

 

[Toni]

That word salad doesn't mean much. Yes, some people misuse the word, often deliberately, like the dishonest attack on Derschowitz.



There certainly is. There is a huge difference between being sexually attracted to a 16 year old vs. an 8 year old. And a person who can't comprehend the difference is too far gone the rabbit hole of mindless moralizing to be helped.

.

It's pedophilia. And anyone who wants to have sex with 16 year olds, other than ~16 year olds, is a pedophile.

It's not. And again, 16 is legal in most US states, all of Canada, and most of Europe (and in many countries aoc is in fact even lower than 16!) To equate that with sex with prepubescent children is sick frankly.

I repeat, it's pedophilia. The only ones who I generally see try to claim it isn't, who fight this, are pedophiles who want to groom young teenagers.

Oh, I disagree. Mostly it’s middle aged men who don’t want to be seen as creeps for perving* on teenage girls.

*perving is what my then teenaged daughter used to call it. And for her, middle age was between 30 and 50, OR if you had a gray hair. One gray hair was enough

 

[Derec]

So the Rotheram gang were dirty old men and not pedophile?

The big problem with what they did was lack of consent, not age. No, they were not pedophiles. They (or Epstein) do not have to be pedophiles for what they did to be wrong.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Despite Derec's pedophilia red herring, some victims were less than 16.

 

[Derec]

Despite Derec's pedophilia red herring, some victims were less than 16.

I was not defending Epstein. I was defending Derschowitz who was attacked with the "pedophilia" cudgel for advocating for lowering AoC to 16 despite the fact that it is already 16 in most of US, all of Canada and most of Europe.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Dershowitz likely did more than legal advocacy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That would be an interesting question. Seeing how germs and virii have testable genetics, could we potentially test allegations by seeing whether they share some bugs with the accused?

For fast-mutating viruses I would say that would be possible. You'd have to do full sequencing, but it should be possible. Of course, it would only prove that sex took place (or at least some mixing of precious bodily fluids), not the lack of consent, and it would rely on Epstein carrying a virus (Epstein-Barr perhaps?) and also infecting any sex partners, neither of which is a given.

Such testing certainly can be done--it was done here when we had a moron of cost-cutting doctor end up infecting several people with Hepatitis-C. The CDC came along and figured out the exact transmission paths this way.

However, what virus would it be? And is that even useful many years after the fact?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're the one who is confused.
https://legaldictionary.net/romeo-and-juliet-laws/

According to federal law, it is illegal to have sexual relations with anyone between the ages of 12 and 18, if that person is four or more years younger than the perpetrator. Each state has specific legal age of consent laws, which vary from 10 to 18 years of age.

Some states do not have a Romeo and Juliet law, instead setting a specific age of consent. If any person engages in consensual sex prior to that age, they have committed a crime, regardless of how close in age the parties are.

Beyond that, it doesn't sound consensual, period.

Lack of consent is a matter different than age, and should have to be proven separately, not just assumed.
Also, advocating for a lowering of age of consent below 18 is hardly advocating "pedophilia" contrary to what some here are claiming.

I was talking about lack of consent, period.

But since you mentioned it, if someone is under the age of consent, consent is impossible, except within some limited age range in about half of the US states.

It's pedophilia the same way that you blow your nose on a kleenex.

Sorry, but pedophilia has nothing to do with the legal definition of age of consent.

Pedophilia is the sexual attraction to children before puberty. There's no place with an age of consent low enough to get into this range. Age of consent laws exist because teenagers often can be manipulated into things.

 

[PyramidHead]

I find it hardest to believe that someone like Epstein wouldn't have a dead man's switch, which is why I am now in favor of the theory that he is not actually dead and was just extradited as part of a deal to protect the people he has dirt on.

 

[lpetrich]

Jail guards assigned to watch Epstein were sleeping before his death

The two Manhattan jail guards tasked with monitoring Jeffrey Epstein before he died fell asleep on the job and fudged the log entries to show they checked on him and other inmates when they actually didn’t, according to reports.

Surveillance video reviewed after Epstein’s death showed the guards at the Metropolitan Correctional Center never made some of the inspections noted in the log, sources told The Post late Tuesday.

Jeffrey Epstein death: Shrieking heard from jail cell the morning he died at Metropolitan Correctional Center - CBS News

On the morning of Jeffrey Epstein's death there was shouting and shrieking from his jail cell, a source familiar with the situation told CBS News. Corrections officers attempted to revive him while saying "breathe, Epstein, breathe."

Congress is the latest to start investigating Epstein's apparent suicide over the weekend, with new reports raising questions about the federal jail where he was being held. One of Epstein's guards at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on the night he died was reportedly not a regular corrections officer.

Jeffrey Epstein accuser Jennifer Araoz sues Ghislaine Maxwell, 3 other Epstein staffers - "Jennifer Araoz alleges she was repeatedly sexually assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein at his New York townhouse when she was 14 and 15, including a 2002 rape."

Jeffrey Epstein did not work alone, so whoever assisted him will now get targeted.

 

[PyramidHead]

Jail guards assigned to watch Epstein were sleeping before his death

The two Manhattan jail guards tasked with monitoring Jeffrey Epstein before he died fell asleep on the job and fudged the log entries to show they checked on him and other inmates when they actually didn’t, according to reports.

Surveillance video reviewed after Epstein’s death showed the guards at the Metropolitan Correctional Center never made some of the inspections noted in the log, sources told The Post late Tuesday.

Jeffrey Epstein death: Shrieking heard from jail cell the morning he died at Metropolitan Correctional Center - CBS News

On the morning of Jeffrey Epstein's death there was shouting and shrieking from his jail cell, a source familiar with the situation told CBS News. Corrections officers attempted to revive him while saying "breathe, Epstein, breathe."

Congress is the latest to start investigating Epstein's apparent suicide over the weekend, with new reports raising questions about the federal jail where he was being held. One of Epstein's guards at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on the night he died was reportedly not a regular corrections officer.

Jeffrey Epstein accuser Jennifer Araoz sues Ghislaine Maxwell, 3 other Epstein staffers - "Jennifer Araoz alleges she was repeatedly sexually assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein at his New York townhouse when she was 14 and 15, including a 2002 rape."

Jeffrey Epstein did not work alone, so whoever assisted him will now get targeted.

I love to wail and shriek like a banshee whenever I commit suicide by hanging, that's for sure!

 

[Worldtraveller]

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1160258660871749632

 

[ZiprHead]

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1160258660871749632

Please do not post blind links.

I get it. Epstein is one of the most famous and controversial prisoners in the world, a focus of immense media/political attention, and recently may have attempted suicide.
Therefore, you think, it is extremely implausible that jail officials would allow him to kill himself./1

 

[lpetrich]

I use "Copy URL to Clipboard" in Firefox, and I usually copy Text & URL with only a little bit of formatting:
15YearsNoTrials!Hat on Twitter: "I get it. Epstein is one of the most famous and controversial prisoners in the world, a focus of immense media/political attention, and recently may have attempted suicide.
Therefore, you think, it is extremely implausible that jail officials would allow him to kill himself./1" / Twitter

 

[Jarhyn]

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/jeffrey-epsteins-bodyguard-igor-zinoviev-on-his-old-boss.html

Epstien's former bodyguard interviewed following Epstien's suspicious death; he sure seems worried. I would be, too.

 

[Derec]

On a somewhat lighter note:
Epstein had bizarre painting of Bill Clinton in dress, heels in townhouse