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KeepTalking said:
TSwizzle said:
It's Ms Greening that seems "to be terribly afraid of the otherness".
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Well, of course. Since I noted that your posts are another example of that, it only stands to reason that her comments are as well. It seems you are capable of reason after all, which leads one to wonder why you seem so loathe to actually put that capability to use.
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Actually, I fail to see how Ms Greening's concern could be construed as being "terribly afraid of otherness" (what ever than means) or xenophobic.
 
angelo said:
Typical blinkered view. Either agree with me or fuck off hey! Attack anyone that has a different view. The behead All those who insults the prophet! But ours is a religion of peace brigade.
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No, it's the "bigoted morons who have spent 400 pages spamming the same inane hateful shit can fuck off" brigade.
 
angelo said:
bigfield said:
You may stand corrected, but you haven't learned anything. Both of those suggestions are also inane.

Works of fiction are found in the literature section--Class 800--and would be made infinitely more difficult to navigate if the contents of the 'religion' Class were moved there. It would make the classification system poorer and less meaningful.

The religious section of the library contains not merely the religious texts themselves, but also anti-religious texts by atheists including Dawkins and Harris are found in this section. You can't just re-label the whole fucking section 'ancient mythological fiction'.



Luckily for the rest of us, we have competent librarians whose knuckles are clear of the floor, so your 'help' is not required.

There is no 'military' section. Libraries aren't arranged like a fucking Dymocks. 'Military' is split into many different categories, including military science, military law and military engineering, while military history texts are spread throughout these sections, plus the history sections. In addition, works such as Caesar's Commentarii can be found in the 870's, under Latin Literature. Religious texts don't belong in any of these sections.
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The libraries that I've been in have works by Dawkins, Hitch, and Harris in the non fiction section. Of course the larger ones have apologists and theology sections. Books critical of religion are generally not in the same section as theologies.
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Just for fun why don't you verify where the Dianetics books should be placed?
 
angelo said:
Typical blinkered view. Either agree with me or fuck off hey! Attack anyone that has a different view. The behead All those who insults the prophet! But ours is a religion of peace brigade.
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The problems we are facing are not between Muslims and the rest of us, but between extremists and the rest of us. Extremists come in many different flavours, militant Islamism is but one of them, yours is another.
 
whichphilosophy said:
angelo said:
The libraries that I've been in have works by Dawkins, Hitch, and Harris in the non fiction section. Of course the larger ones have apologists and theology sections. Books critical of religion are generally not in the same section as theologies.
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Just for fun why don't you verify where the Dianetics books should be placed?
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Isn't that obvious. The science-fiction section. Together with the rest of Hubbards work
 
faded_Glory said:
angelo said:
Typical blinkered view. Either agree with me or fuck off hey! Attack anyone that has a different view. The behead All those who insults the prophet! But ours is a religion of peace brigade.
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The problems we are facing are not between Muslims and the rest of us, but between extremists and the rest of us. Extremists come in many different flavours, militant Islamism is but one of them, yours is another.
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Nearly 99.9% of all deaths and destruction today, throughout the world is caused by extreme islam.
 
angelo said:
faded_Glory said:
The problems we are facing are not between Muslims and the rest of us, but between extremists and the rest of us. Extremists come in many different flavours, militant Islamism is but one of them, yours is another.
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Nearly 99.9% of all deaths and destruction today, throughout the world is caused by extreme islam.
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Let's pick this apart. Most deaths are down to a dodgy heart, which in turn is down to genetics. There's more people who die from straining while taking a shit on the loo than from all deaths from human conflict put together. If we take away deaths from disease most common death is traffic accidents. By far. Alcohol abuse is a bigger bane. As is depression. All these are problems that warrant more focus than Islam. Domestic violence outstrips war by far. Some places are better than others. But culture has reason to get up on their high horse. Track records are terrible all over the planet. That's a more worrying foe than Islam.

In fact deaths due to Islamic attacks are so few and rare that we might as well just ignore them. They don't even make the tiniest blip in the statistics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate

Get your facts straight.
 
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If caring for democracy, free speech and the Western World and its culture is hate, then I'm guilty as hell!
 
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angelo said:
Warpoet said:
The rules prohibit hate and fearmongering, which are literally the only god damned things you do on this board.
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If caring for democracy, free speech and the Western World and its culture is hate, then I'm guilty as hell!
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But you're not caring for democracy. You're the enemy of democracy. As Warpoet already pointed out. There are two sides here. Extremists and moderates. You are on the same side as ISIS and Al Qaeda. You're just as much an enemy of democracy and freedom as they are. The fact that you see Islam as in opposition to the Western World gives you away. I think you're blinded by your racism (yes, I said it) to see that European enlightenment ideals reigns supreme in the world. Yes, even in Syria. The desperate acts of Islamists prove it. No army about to win uses terrorism. There is no threat to us or our way of life.

All there is is a geographic region undergoing regime changes. This creates instability. And when people are insecure people grab onto what security they have. Religion has always been the last resort of desperate people. That is all ISIS is. When empires collapse it gets messy. And the Ottoman empire was huge. The war in Syria has nothing to do with religion.
 
DrZoidberg said:
In fact deaths due to Islamic attacks are so few and rare that we might as well just ignore them. They don't even make the tiniest blip in the statistics.
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I know, it makes one wonder why those people leaving Syria, Afghanistan etc don't just stay where they are right.
 
TSwizzle said:
DrZoidberg said:
In fact deaths due to Islamic attacks are so few and rare that we might as well just ignore them. They don't even make the tiniest blip in the statistics.
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I know, it makes one wonder why those people leaving Syria, Afghanistan etc don't just stay where they are right.
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What do you think the refugees prove about Islamic violence? I'm curious where you're going with this?
 
TSwizzle said:
It's all about religion. It's about teh islam.
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So you don't think the war in Syria is about power? Do you recall how the Syrian war started? Demonstrations in Damascus. The people calling for democracy. ISIS came way later. They were initially a minor player. Al-Bagdadhi is first and foremost good at balancing a check-book and finding revenue. He's a man who buys friends. That's where his power stems from. First political instability, which then ISIS came to exploit later. ISIS was never the engine behind the war in Syria. The entire Arab spring was all about the Arabs (teh Muslims) wanting democracy and a western style liberal society.

TSwizzle said:
DrZoidberg said:
TSwizzle said:
I know, it makes one wonder why those people leaving Syria, Afghanistan etc don't just stay where they are right.
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What do you think the refugees prove about Islamic violence? I'm curious where you're going with this?
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It proves it exists and it's not negligible.
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No. It proves that war is bad. It proves people don't like getting killed. It proves that if there's money to be made people are willing to fight for it.

I separate Islamic violence from power politics. I don't see ISIS actions as Islamist violence. I see them as I would any country at war.

I only grant that an attack is motivated by religion if all other motivations have been ruled out first. Attacks by suicide bombers is an excellent example by religiously motivated violence. But also luckily rare.
 
DrZoidberg said:
No. It proves that war is bad. It proves people don't like getting killed. It proves that if there's money to be made people are willing to fight for it.

I separate Islamic violence from power politics. I don't see ISIS actions as Islamist violence. I see them as I would any country at war.

I only grant that an attack is motivated by religion if all other motivations have been ruled out first. Attacks by suicide bombers is an excellent example by religiously motivated violence. But also luckily rare.
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I take it their destroying historic monuments is also power politics then? It somehow weakens Hammurabi's or Mursili's ability to lead their militaries against IS?

The truth is in the middle
 
Deepak said:
DrZoidberg said:
No. It proves that war is bad. It proves people don't like getting killed. It proves that if there's money to be made people are willing to fight for it.

I separate Islamic violence from power politics. I don't see ISIS actions as Islamist violence. I see them as I would any country at war.

I only grant that an attack is motivated by religion if all other motivations have been ruled out first. Attacks by suicide bombers is an excellent example by religiously motivated violence. But also luckily rare.
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I take it their destroying historic monuments is also power politics then? It somehow weakens Hammurabi's or Mursili's ability to lead their militaries against IS?

The truth is in the middle
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You're confusing several things here:

1) The main motivation for ISIS is power and money. Any army needs something to rally behind. ISIS has chosen Islam. I'm not denying that ISIS is Islamic or that they commit a bunch of atrocities in the name of Islam. What I'm arguing is that their Islam is secondary to their greed. Greed is their motivation. Islam is their excuse.

2) They're destroying the monuments to sell them. The looting and re-sale of antiquities is one of ISIS main cash cows. Where Islam comes into the picture is that it's an ideology that is fine with such destruction. This is bad. But they're not simply destroying the monuments simply because they're cunts. ISIS doesn't seem to do anything without a cash incentive.

https://news.vice.com/article/a-leaked-budget-may-finally-show-how-the-islamic-state-makes-its-money

When ISIS greenlit the wiping out the Yazidis. It wasn't just genocide or a religiously motivated massacre. Remember that Christian Yazidis are to be protected by Islamic fighers. It's in the Quran. Attacking Yazidis was about grabbing the women to sell them as slaves (ie money) and as a way to procure wives for fighters (to maintain their loyalty). If ISIS gave a shit about Islam they wouldn't have attacked the Yazidis.
 
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