Europe submits voluntarily

[bilby]

Right - the monorail would be better applied to food distribution than to food production. I've been waiting for someone (else) to come up with a drone-driven famine-mitigation system.

But what's the problem? Lack of food or lack of access to food? (And when I say this I mean purely within the context of within the given country fyi.) I was under the impression that the problem was a food shortage.

As far as I can tell, there's no actual food shortage in Rwanda; Rather there is a tribal conflict between two groups each of whom believes that they are entitled to own more land per person, and that the reason they don't is that the other tribe stole it. Most (if not all) of Rwanda's problems stem from tribalism, and started with national boundaries drawn by European colonial powers without regard for traditional tribal boundaries, and were exacerbated by neo-fascism spread by AM Radio hosts.

The mixture of racism, religion, lack of education, and too much exposure to shock-jocks is highly destructive to any society, regardless of population density; Just look at middle America if you doubt this.

 

[angelo]

So your solution would be the shooting, or hanging in a public square of all shock jocks and just let the population explosion in the third world just take care of itself! Got it!
That's fine as long as they don't immigrate to the west in their millions!

 

[whichphilosophy]

But what's the problem? Lack of food or lack of access to food? (And when I say this I mean purely within the context of within the given country fyi.) I was under the impression that the problem was a food shortage.

As far as I can tell, there's no actual food shortage in Rwanda; Rather there is a tribal conflict between two groups each of whom believes that they are entitled to own more land per person, and that the reason they don't is that the other tribe stole it. Most (if not all) of Rwanda's problems stem from tribalism, and started with national boundaries drawn by European colonial powers without regard for traditional tribal boundaries, and were exacerbated by neo-fascism spread by AM Radio hosts.

The mixture of racism, religion, lack of education, and too much exposure to shock-jocks is highly destructive to any society, regardless of population density; Just look at middle America if you doubt this.

France supported and armed the Hutu-led government of Juvénal Habyarimana where this was coupled with an ineffective United Nations Assistance Mission for Rwanda presence.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ethnic violence started the mess in Rwanda but it wasn't the main cause. I suggest reading Jared Diamond's "Collapse".

1) While it's subsistence farming that doesn't change the tiny plot sizes people are left with after division after division of the farmland.

2) Ever been there? Note how mountainous it is--not exactly a practical place for mechanized farming. Fields are crammed in wherever they can be, often on some pretty steep hillsides.

So the problem isn't population, nor even population density; it's subsistence farming, due to lack of development, due to poverty.

Rwandans are poor because they are mostly farmers, in an environment where farming is not lucrative. Population has fuck all to do with it; the population density of a nation is not linked to its per capita wealth.

The population that a place can sustain is dependent on the tech level.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So the problem isn't population, nor even population density; it's subsistence farming, due to lack of development, due to poverty.

Rwandans are poor because they are mostly farmers, in an environment where farming is not lucrative. Population has fuck all to do with it; the population density of a nation is not linked to its per capita wealth.

Further, the mountains themselves do not deter mechanized farming, it may be harder and require money put into developing specialized equipment, but its hardly undo-able.

Just as a general idea, how about a sort of monorail farming system that can travel up, down, and across terraces, ploughing fields, seeding, watering, tending, and harvesting crops depending upon the armatures used? I cant say if this would be the best way, but there's nothing about that idea that is impossible and it would be a major step up over manual labor with unmodified crops.

In fact, the more mechanically minded of you can perhaps picture what that blueprint might even look like.

And who is going to pay for it?

And those machines very well might be worth more than a farmer makes in his life. Give him one and the sensible thing for him to do is sell it and live on the money.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But what's the problem? Lack of food or lack of access to food? (And when I say this I mean purely within the context of within the given country fyi.) I was under the impression that the problem was a food shortage.

As far as I can tell, there's no actual food shortage in Rwanda; Rather there is a tribal conflict between two groups each of whom believes that they are entitled to own more land per person, and that the reason they don't is that the other tribe stole it. Most (if not all) of Rwanda's problems stem from tribalism, and started with national boundaries drawn by European colonial powers without regard for traditional tribal boundaries, and were exacerbated by neo-fascism spread by AM Radio hosts.

The mixture of racism, religion, lack of education, and too much exposure to shock-jocks is highly destructive to any society, regardless of population density; Just look at middle America if you doubt this.

If it were tribalism then the death rate in areas with only one tribe would have been near zero. Yet in reality it was only half the rate of what it was in the mixed areas. That says something like half of the killings definitely didn't have a tribal motive.

 

[LordKiran]

Further, the mountains themselves do not deter mechanized farming, it may be harder and require money put into developing specialized equipment, but its hardly undo-able.

Just as a general idea, how about a sort of monorail farming system that can travel up, down, and across terraces, ploughing fields, seeding, watering, tending, and harvesting crops depending upon the armatures used? I cant say if this would be the best way, but there's nothing about that idea that is impossible and it would be a major step up over manual labor with unmodified crops.

In fact, the more mechanically minded of you can perhaps picture what that blueprint might even look like.

And who is going to pay for it?

And those machines very well might be worth more than a farmer makes in his life. Give him one and the sensible thing for him to do is sell it and live on the money.

Your response doesn't follow. My point was that there's nothing that stops people from inventing new machines and techniques that allow for mechanized terrace farming. I'm not suggesting this as necessarily being the one and only way to solve Rwanda's problems.

 

[LordKiran]

As far as I can tell, there's no actual food shortage in Rwanda; Rather there is a tribal conflict between two groups each of whom believes that they are entitled to own more land per person, and that the reason they don't is that the other tribe stole it. Most (if not all) of Rwanda's problems stem from tribalism, and started with national boundaries drawn by European colonial powers without regard for traditional tribal boundaries, and were exacerbated by neo-fascism spread by AM Radio hosts.

The mixture of racism, religion, lack of education, and too much exposure to shock-jocks is highly destructive to any society, regardless of population density; Just look at middle America if you doubt this.

If it were tribalism then the death rate in areas with only one tribe would have been near zero. Yet in reality it was only half the rate of what it was in the mixed areas. That says something like half of the killings definitely didn't have a tribal motive.

Yup, that's the reality! It's so much reality that you didn't even have to back it up with any kind of source or evidence, because it'd be too overpowering, the human body can only take so much real!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And who is going to pay for it?

And those machines very well might be worth more than a farmer makes in his life. Give him one and the sensible thing for him to do is sell it and live on the money.

Your response doesn't follow. My point was that there's nothing that stops people from inventing new machines and techniques that allow for mechanized terrace farming. I'm not suggesting this as necessarily being the one and only way to solve Rwanda's problems.

The point is that it's a pie-in-the-sky "solution" that isn't going to work in the real world.

To solve real problems requires answers that actually work.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If it were tribalism then the death rate in areas with only one tribe would have been near zero. Yet in reality it was only half the rate of what it was in the mixed areas. That says something like half of the killings definitely didn't have a tribal motive.

Yup, that's the reality! It's so much reality that you didn't even have to back it up with any kind of source or evidence, because it'd be too overpowering, the human body can only take so much real!

I've already directed you where to look. Jared Diamond: Collapse.

https://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Soc...M8EA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500481995&sr=8-1

 

[bilby]

As far as I can tell, there's no actual food shortage in Rwanda; Rather there is a tribal conflict between two groups each of whom believes that they are entitled to own more land per person, and that the reason they don't is that the other tribe stole it. Most (if not all) of Rwanda's problems stem from tribalism, and started with national boundaries drawn by European colonial powers without regard for traditional tribal boundaries, and were exacerbated by neo-fascism spread by AM Radio hosts.

The mixture of racism, religion, lack of education, and too much exposure to shock-jocks is highly destructive to any society, regardless of population density; Just look at middle America if you doubt this.

If it were tribalism then the death rate in areas with only one tribe would have been near zero. Yet in reality it was only half the rate of what it was in the mixed areas. That says something like half of the killings definitely didn't have a tribal motive.

Or that people sometimes go to places where they don't live.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Further, the mountains themselves do not deter mechanized farming, it may be harder and require money put into developing specialized equipment, but its hardly undo-able.

Just as a general idea, how about a sort of monorail farming system that can travel up, down, and across terraces, ploughing fields, seeding, watering, tending, and harvesting crops depending upon the armatures used? I cant say if this would be the best way, but there's nothing about that idea that is impossible and it would be a major step up over manual labor with unmodified crops.

In fact, the more mechanically minded of you can perhaps picture what that blueprint might even look like.

And who is going to pay for it?

And those machines very well might be worth more than a farmer makes in his life. Give him one and the sensible thing for him to do is sell it and live on the money.

The problem (certainly in India and Pakistan) is where farmers took out loans to buy farming machinery and irrigation pumps but could not obtain spare parts, so the machinery was idle and the farmer in debt.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If it were tribalism then the death rate in areas with only one tribe would have been near zero. Yet in reality it was only half the rate of what it was in the mixed areas. That says something like half of the killings definitely didn't have a tribal motive.

Or that people sometimes go to places where they don't live.

Really, now? Go to a place where there aren't any others of your group in order to kill? You're much more likely to get killed that way!

 

[bilby]

Or that people sometimes go to places where they don't live.

Really, now? Go to a place where there aren't any others of your group in order to kill? You're much more likely to get killed that way!

Who said anything about going alone?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Really, now? Go to a place where there aren't any others of your group in order to kill? You're much more likely to get killed that way!

Who said anything about going alone?

Do you see the word "alone" in my words? The point is they would be much easier to spot, while suitable targets that were easier and safer to go after would exist. Thus it's unlikely that they were targeted for their ethnicity.

 

[bilby]

Who said anything about going alone?

Do you see the word "alone" in my words? The point is they would be much easier to spot, while suitable targets that were easier and safer to go after would exist. Thus it's unlikely that they were targeted for their ethnicity.

Your assessment of what is 'unlikely' is adding yet another hypothetical to a mountain of hypotheticals required for your original claim to have any validity.

You made a weak claim, and have weakly supported it; you are simply wrong, and I have no further interest in pursuing the minutiae of the subtextual irrelevancies of your initial claim.

In a massacre, even people in less hazardous areas get killed. And your attempt to claim otherwise is pathetic.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do you see the word "alone" in my words? The point is they would be much easier to spot, while suitable targets that were easier and safer to go after would exist. Thus it's unlikely that they were targeted for their ethnicity.

Your assessment of what is 'unlikely' is adding yet another hypothetical to a mountain of hypotheticals required for your original claim to have any validity.

You made a weak claim, and have weakly supported it; you are simply wrong, and I have no further interest in pursuing the minutiae of the subtextual irrelevancies of your initial claim.

In a massacre, even people in less hazardous areas get killed. And your attempt to claim otherwise is pathetic.

Some might have but a third of all the killings?? That doesn't pass the laugh test. It only makes sense that much of the violence wasn't ethnic.

 

[TSwizzle]

Oops, the call to jihad has been sussed in Sheffield;

A community radio station has had its licence revoked for broadcasting more than 25 hours of lectures by an alleged al-Qaeda leader.
Sheffield-based Iman FM's licence had already been suspended by Ofcom for playing the lectures by radical American Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. Iman FM previously told Ofcom it was not aware of Awlaki's background.

BBC

 

[bilby]

Oops, the call to jihad has been sussed in Sheffield;

A community radio station has had its licence revoked for broadcasting more than 25 hours of lectures by an alleged al-Qaeda leader.
Sheffield-based Iman FM's licence had already been suspended by Ofcom for playing the lectures by radical American Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. Iman FM previously told Ofcom it was not aware of Awlaki's background.

BBC

So you are saying that the fact that this station was shut down is evidence that the Muslims are taking over?

That's like using the fact that someone was jailed for murder as evidence that Europeans are all at risk of being murdered, and that the authorities are not doing enough to protect them.

Or to put it another way, that's unbelievably fucking stupid.

Only insane zealots consider ALL news as supporting their pet fantasies.

 

[angelo]

Meanwhile: Anti-terrorism police have foiled yet another plot to bomb a plane as raids were carried out on four homes in Sydney yesterday. Heavily armed police stormed the properties in a cordinated operation as part of an ongoing terror-related investigation. Police have confirmed the raids in Surry Hills,Lakemba, Punchbowl and wiley Park related to an alleged plot to bring down an aircraft using a " device." [source Sunday Times]

During 2015, the United Kingdom Intelligence agencies have been monitoring more than 3000 homegrown Muslim extremists who want to carry out terrorist attacks in the United Kingdom. By 2017 it's much higher than that.

Recent research has found the unpalatable truth that two in three Muslims in the United Kingdom would not report a terrorist plot to the authorities. The same applies to Australian or European Muslims.
As for integration. According to Pew Global [2006], only 7% of British Muslims think of themselves as British first, while 81% think of themselves as Muslim first. Doubt these figures would be any different today.
Here's another disturbing figure ignored by the politically correct. Muslims comprise around 5% of the population of the United Kingdom but 20% of high security inmates. Clearly not a docile minority.