Europe submits voluntarily

[Jokodo]

Thank you captain Obvious.

So tell me again why I should give a shit about Europe or Australia or anywhere having people living in it after my death, who are ever so slightly less closely related to me than those who live there now? In light of the fact that:

a) I don't know, like or even agree with the lifestyle choices of most of the people who live there right now;
b) Most of the people who live there today are VERY distant relatives of mine indeed; and
c) I will be too dead to give a shit.

Or for that matter, why I should give a shit if the strangers with odd attitudes and beliefs who live there today are replaced by (or added to by) more strangers with odd attitudes and beliefs tomorrow?

Apart from irrational tribalism and xenophobia; and/or an irrational and cruel 'I've got mine, fuck off pauper' attitude, there is fuck all reason to oppose immigration.

I thought you'd like that one.
If you have too many in the country, where do you put them and who is going to pay for them. Of course if Florida will accept them, I'm sure Europe will be glad to bus them over.
Because the expansion of our civilisations (hence also our species) perhaps as part of evolution were perpetuated by those who give a shit.

Noone asked "where do we put them" and "who is going to pay for them" when 12,000,000 displaced people (mainly ethnic Germans from the Soviet controlled eastern areas) took refuge in a Germany that already had a housing shortage because of wartime destructions 1945-1950. It was simply done because it had to be done, and it didn't prevent the "Wirtschaftswunder" either.

Nobody asked "where do we put them" and "who is going to pay for them" when 120,000 refugees from the wars in former Yugoslavia arrived in Austria mostly in 1992. We did it because it had to be done (and more than half came to stay).

Giving a shit is doing what has to be done, not turning a blind eye to the challenges that face us.

 

[barbos]

No, it's not a fucking fact. It is minority but not tiny.

Yes. It *is* a fact. Again, we're talking mere hundreds of people; out of a population of millions. That is tiny. Period.

Thousands, not hundreds.

 

[Jokodo]

You prefer your beef with extra cruelty? Also, you can't get bacon from beef. Finally, Islam doesn't allow alcohol so all those European beers, wines and spirits might be a thing of the past by the end of the century, unless Europeans do something about it. <snip>

There's a newly opened Syrian restaurant in my neighbourhood. Their choice of beers and vodkas is larger than that of many "native Austrian" restaurants nearby, and larger than their choice of sodas.

 

[Jokodo]

European values?

Like Ghandi said, that would be a good idea.

But in this world the people that have done the most damage over the last 100 years are Europeans and Americans, Muslims aren't even close.

It's more about numbers and not religion.

Question: How many people can you squeeze into Britain
Answer: Another million.

Based on what rationale? In  List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density, the UK doesn't even appear in the top 50.

 

[barbos]

It's more about numbers and not religion.

Question: How many people can you squeeze into Britain
Answer: Another million.

Based on what rationale? In  List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density, the UK doesn't even appear in the top 50.

are you sure?

 

[dystopian]

Yes. It *is* a fact. Again, we're talking mere hundreds of people; out of a population of millions. That is tiny. Period.

Thousands, not hundreds.

No, that's thousands for the *whole of Europe*, NOT the UK or any single country apart from France (1300). It's only been around 5000 for the entire EU over the past x number of years.

Again. That is a *tiny* fucking minority (and again, keep in mind, only some of them will be joining IS). There is no way to describe that as anything other than a tiny minority when you look at either the total EU population or the total muslim population of the EU.

 

[barbos]

You prefer your beef with extra cruelty? Also, you can't get bacon from beef. Finally, Islam doesn't allow alcohol so all those European beers, wines and spirits might be a thing of the past by the end of the century, unless Europeans do something about it. <snip>

There's a newly opened Syrian restaurant in my neighbourhood. Their choice of beers and vodkas is larger than that of many "native Austrian" restaurants nearby, and larger than their choice of sodas.

Syrian muslims?

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Thousands, not hundreds.

No, that's thousands for the *whole of Europe*, NOT the UK or any single country apart from France (1300). It's only been around 5000 for the entire EU over the past x number of years.

Again. That is a *tiny* fucking minority (and again, keep in mind, only some of them will be joining IS). There is no way to describe that as anything other than a tiny minority when you look at either the total EU population or the total muslim population of the EU.

Not a tiny minority.

 

[barbos]

 

[Jokodo]

Based on what rationale? In  List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density, the UK doesn't even appear in the top 50.

are you sure?

That blue text, you can click it!

 

[dystopian]

are you sure?

That blue text, you can click it!

It might be possible he thinks he's being clever by virtue of the fact that Gibraltar, Bermuda, Jersey, Guernsey, and the Caymans are all considered territory of the UK and are in the top 50...

...but of course, being a dependent territory *of* the UK and *being* the UK are two different things.


Incidentally, and this is a derail, but the Netherlands should probably be a lot higher on that list. There's two different figures floating around for our average population density; but I'm pretty sure the one on that list (and wikipedia in general) includes all our surface water (which is quite substantial) in the calculations, which I don't think is commonly done for other countries. The more accurate figure is 498 per km2, which would move us up to 24th place, just below S-Korea and above Lebanon.

 

[dystopian]

There's a newly opened Syrian restaurant in my neighbourhood. Their choice of beers and vodkas is larger than that of many "native Austrian" restaurants nearby, and larger than their choice of sodas.

Syrian muslims?

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Thousands, not hundreds.

No, that's thousands for the *whole of Europe*, NOT the UK or any single country apart from France (1300). It's only been around 5000 for the entire EU over the past x number of years.

Again. That is a *tiny* fucking minority (and again, keep in mind, only some of them will be joining IS). There is no way to describe that as anything other than a tiny minority when you look at either the total EU population or the total muslim population of the EU.

Not a tiny minority.

Sigh.

The total EU population of immigrants born outside of the EU is 31.4 million. It's been estimated that some 5000 people have travelled from EU countries to Syria for the purposes of fighting for one side or another.

That is a total of 0.14705882352941177% of the non-EU-born immigrant population.

Or... 0.0009838818197679788% of the total EU population.

That is the very definition of a tiny fucking minority.

 

[Jokodo]

There's a newly opened Syrian restaurant in my neighbourhood. Their choice of beers and vodkas is larger than that of many "native Austrian" restaurants nearby, and larger than their choice of sodas.

Syrian muslims?

I haven't talked with them in depth, and I don't tend to talk about religion with people when they don't bring it up, but I have no reason to believe not. For what it's worth, they did have an Iftar special deal on offer during Ramadan.

 

[barbos]

are you sure?

That blue text, you can click it!

let's exclude city-states, shell we?

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Syrian muslims?

I haven't talked with them in depth, and I don't tend to talk about religion with people when they don't bring it up, but I have no reason to believe not. For what it's worth, they did have an Iftar special deal on offer during Ramadan.

Assuming they ARE muslims. what does it prove/illustrate?

 

[Jokodo]

That blue text, you can click it!

let's exclude city-states, shell we?

Why should we?

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Syrian muslims?

I haven't talked with them in depth, and I don't tend to talk about religion with people when they don't bring it up, but I have no reason to believe not. For what it's worth, they did have an Iftar special deal on offer during Ramadan.

Assuming they ARE muslims. what does it prove/illustrate?

It shows that Derec's contention that "all those European beers, wines and spirits might be a thing of the past by the end of the century, unless Europeans do something about it" remains hyperbolic nonsense even if if his baseless and hyperbolic demographic predictions were true.

 

[arkirk]

The other night Jerry Brown was on TV discussing our California Draught. We have 38 million people here and have had draught conditions now for about six years. The word Jerry strayed to and kept using when questioned about..."What if the draught is here to stay?" was that our regimens related to water will have to become more sophisticated and elegant. My first thought was he was dodging the issure, however it should be clear to us that if we survive to become more sophisticated things that are problems today to a disorganized dissonant society will indeed become less threatening with increased understanding of what we MUST DO TO SURVIVE. We collectively are gaining in the knowledge department and crude environmental disruptions in the name of energy and or supply, will indeed have to be more elegant and restrained.

I feel that problems with overpopulation are nowhere near the scope of problems we seem to have understanding each others human needs. This does not have to be a tryranny of bureaucratic dictations but rather the dictates of common sense and consensus. It really is just a matter of getting everybody enough of what they need to survive, and not a matter of good and evil as the Neo Nazis would make it.

Is California Draught a beer? If so, I hope the brewery has an independent water supply, because I understand the state is currently in drought.

Come on guy it was after midnight when I made this post. It makes a point spelling aside....one I feel you will probably not ever understand in your lifetime.

 

[skepticalbip]

There's a newly opened Syrian restaurant in my neighbourhood. Their choice of beers and vodkas is larger than that of many "native Austrian" restaurants nearby, and larger than their choice of sodas.

Syrian muslims?
.

Alcohol laws in Muslim countries are even more confusing that they are here in the US. Yes, alcohol can be bought in many Muslim countries. From what I understand, Bahrain is sorta party central for Muslims who want to get away from their local fundamentalists for a wild weekend even though many of them can enjoy a little snort in their own country. So a Muslim restaurant outside the middle east selling alcohol is not surprising... certainly no more surprising than a whore house owned by a Christian, and there are many.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/07/06/199087974/what-a-fella-has-to-do-to-get-a-drink-around-the-muslim-world

 

[barbos]

let's exclude city-states, shall we?

Why should we?

Because cities are not real countries.

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Syrian muslims?

I haven't talked with them in depth, and I don't tend to talk about religion with people when they don't bring it up, but I have no reason to believe not. For what it's worth, they did have an Iftar special deal on offer during Ramadan.

Assuming they ARE muslims. what does it prove/illustrate?

It shows that Derec's contention that "all those European beers, wines and spirits might be a thing of the past by the end of the century, unless Europeans do something about it" remains hyperbolic nonsense even if if his baseless and hyperbolic demographic predictions were true.

Well, according to most implementations of sharia law alcohol is forbidden. I personally can't care less but it is what it is.

 

[Jokodo]

Why should we?

Because cities are not real countries.

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Syrian muslims?

I haven't talked with them in depth, and I don't tend to talk about religion with people when they don't bring it up, but I have no reason to believe not. For what it's worth, they did have an Iftar special deal on offer during Ramadan.

Assuming they ARE muslims. what does it prove/illustrate?

It shows that Derec's contention that "all those European beers, wines and spirits might be a thing of the past by the end of the century, unless Europeans do something about it" remains hyperbolic nonsense even if if his baseless and hyperbolic demographic predictions were true.

Well, according to most implementations of sharia law alcohol is forbidden. I personally can't care less but it is what it is.

That's irrelevant to what will happen in Europe when most self-identified Muslims don't want to live under those interpretations of Sharia law.

Of course you can always say that they are not real Muslims. It sure is what ISIS says. But if the people immigrating into Europe overwhelmingly aren't real Muslims in the first place, the whole point of this thread is kind of moot.

 

[barbos]

Syrian muslims?
.

Alcohol laws in Muslim countries are even more confusing that they are here in the US. Yes, alcohol can be bought in many Muslim countries. From what I understand, Bahrain is sorta party central for Muslims who want to get away from their local fundamentalists for a wild weekend even though many of them can enjoy a little snort in their own country. So a Muslim restaurant outside the middle east selling alcohol is not surprising... certainly no more surprising than a whore house owned by a Christian, and there are many.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/07/06/199087974/what-a-fella-has-to-do-to-get-a-drink-around-the-muslim-world

Good, you can use this information to confuse Islamic State court in case they catch you with beer, I am sure it will work

 

[dystopian]

Because cities are not real countries.

Today, on "Inane opinions with your host, Barbos": Singapore not a country, despite having a bigger population than Norway, and 142 other internationally recognized nationstates.