Europe submits voluntarily

[Jayjay]

You feel pretty safe in Australia, don't you?

Not at all. Within 150 years there won't be a single current Australian citizen left anywhere in Australia either.

Not even Tony Abbott's 'Turn back the boats' policy can prevent this disaster from coming to pass.

Actually I think you're both wrong but that's a tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread...

 

[Jayjay]

Irrelevant.

And there should be a way to help people fleeing wars without giving away Europe's future.

Giving asylum to refugees is not giving away our future. Stop being a dramaqueen.

Why can't the Muslim world do more to take in these people?

It *does*. Europe is not actually where most of the refugees are ending up; that's just the story certain media want you to believe.

Europe has taken in only around a 150,000 Syrian refugees in total. Compare that to Lebanon, a tiny country of just over 10,000km2 that has taken in more than 1,2 million refugees.

Lebanon is not exactly an encouraging example of what unchecked flood of refugees might do to a country. It's utter failure both economically and politically, and arguably one of the ingredients for its civil war and occupation back in the 80s were the Palestinian refugee camps.

Europe seems to be doing a bit better in assimilating people, and USA is doing even better. I suppose we do have moral right to take in some refugees, but realistically, Middle-East and Africa are not going to get their shit together anytime soon and we need to prioritize.

 

[dystopian]

Lebanon is not exactly an encouraging example of what unchecked flood of refugees might do to a country. It's utter failure both economically and politically, and arguably one of the ingredients for its civil war and occupation back in the 80s were the Palestinian refugee camps.

I wasn't pointing it out because it's an awesome place to live. I was pointing it out to show that the people screaming their lungs out about Europe getting "flooded" need to get some damned perspective.

 

[RavenSky]

Thank you captain Obvious.

I thought you'd like that one.
If you have too many in the country, where do you put them and who is going to pay for them. Of course if Florida will accept them, I'm sure Europe will be glad to bus them over.

Bilby isn't in Florida, just fyi

 

[whichphilosophy]

I thought you'd like that one.
If you have too many in the country, where do you put them and who is going to pay for them. Of course if Florida will accept them, I'm sure Europe will be glad to bus them over.

Bilby isn't in Florida, just fyi

I guess he was wrong to call me captain obvious.

 

[whichphilosophy]

We would hit constraints immediately. Do you think we should ask the people in the Isle of Wight? However, Do you understand the logistics involved in housing, supplying food and increased taxation on the local population.
There is an African saying. give a man a fish and feed him for one day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life.
Instead of campaigning for changes , we have provided an easy short term solution to simply let the disadvantaged peoples jump ship thereby keeping the inept and corrupt systems of their previous country in place. Are they that poor if they can raise thousands of dollars to pay their snake heads?

You cannot redefine rational logic as xenophobia in the same way you cannot say black is white and white is black.

If you ever present any rational logic, then perhaps we will find out. I'm not holding my breath.

I always say: Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Unfortunately our political decision makers couldn't move faster on these issues even if they caught fire.

 

[TSwizzle]

I wasn't pointing it out because it's an awesome place to live. I was pointing it out to show that the people screaming their lungs out about Europe getting "flooded" need to get some damned perspective.

It must be very irritating for some when confronted with awkward questions.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Lebanon is not exactly an encouraging example of what unchecked flood of refugees might do to a country. It's utter failure both economically and politically, and arguably one of the ingredients for its civil war and occupation back in the 80s were the Palestinian refugee camps.

I wasn't pointing it out because it's an awesome place to live. I was pointing it out to show that the people screaming their lungs out about Europe getting "flooded" need to get some damned perspective.

It is getting flooded proportionally to the resources we have
One Billionaire has suggested he will purchase an island from if someone wishes to offer him one.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-off-Italy-or-Greece-to-rehouse-refugees.html
It will nonetheless take more than is contribution to operate this island. If such a deal goes through, let's hope any residents don't mind.

 

[dystopian]

I wasn't pointing it out because it's an awesome place to live. I was pointing it out to show that the people screaming their lungs out about Europe getting "flooded" need to get some damned perspective.

It must be very irritating for some when confronted with awkward questions.

Yes, I find it quite awkward when people don't understand the difference between statements and questions in general, but in addition, it also makes things even more awkward when people confuse said awkwardness with the implication that it is the question and/or statement's supposed truthfulness that elicited the awkwardness, instead of its stupidity.

Next question and/or statement.

 

[dystopian]

I wasn't pointing it out because it's an awesome place to live. I was pointing it out to show that the people screaming their lungs out about Europe getting "flooded" need to get some damned perspective.

It is getting flooded proportionally to the resources we have

No, it's not.

It's *really* not.

You keep making these absurd claims that are demolished the moment someone posts actual figures... and yet you keep making the same claims.

At the end of 2014, there were only 117,161 refugees in the UK in total; additionally there were 36,383 pending asylum cases, and 16 stateless people.

Add that up and they make up a frightening 0.24% of the UK's population.

If that constitutes a "flood" "proportionally to the resources you have"... then either the UK is one of the poorest fucking countries on the planet, or you're just plain incompetent at basic math.

When will you stop being a drama queen?

 

[whichphilosophy]

It is getting flooded proportionally to the resources we have

No, it's not.

It's *really* not.

You keep making these absurd claims that are demolished the moment someone posts actual figures... and yet you keep making the same claims.

At the end of 2014, there were only 117,161 refugees in the UK in total; additionally there were 36,383 pending asylum cases, and 16 stateless people.

Add that up and they make up a frightening 0.24% of the UK's population.

If that constitutes a "flood" "proportionally to the resources you have"... then either the UK is one of the poorest fucking countries on the planet, or you're just plain incompetent at basic math.

When will you stop being a drama queen?

Where not talking just about refugees and asylum but the hoards of others who come in
See
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06077/SN06077.pdf
If you look at the known migrants that alone adds up to around 641,000 and excludes unknowns coming in on trucks That the size of a city. You can reduce this by approximately one half for those leaving the UK but is still a huge figure which is the size of one or two towns every year.
Adding up the figures over a period of years runs into millions.

 

[bilby]

Bilby isn't in Florida, just fyi

I guess he was wrong to call me captain obvious.

Not at all; it is perfectly possible to be both obvious and oblivious at the same time.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I guess he was wrong to call me captain obvious.

Not at all; it is perfectly possible to be both obvious and oblivious at the same time.

Obviously oblivious?

 

[Juma]

No, it's not.

It's *really* not.

You keep making these absurd claims that are demolished the moment someone posts actual figures... and yet you keep making the same claims.

At the end of 2014, there were only 117,161 refugees in the UK in total; additionally there were 36,383 pending asylum cases, and 16 stateless people.

Add that up and they make up a frightening 0.24% of the UK's population.

If that constitutes a "flood" "proportionally to the resources you have"... then either the UK is one of the poorest fucking countries on the planet, or you're just plain incompetent at basic math.

When will you stop being a drama queen?

Where not talking just about refugees and asylum but the hoards of others who come in
See
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06077/SN06077.pdf
If you look at the known migrants that alone adds up to around 641,000

How many emigrates?

 

[bilby]

They are not like us.

They don't eat the same food. They don't have the same religious views. They have different ideas about how many children to have. They compete with us for jobs. Their cooking smells are offensive. Their kids are often poorly educated, and slow down the teaching process in our schools. They don't share our interests - they support different sporting teams, and even different sports than we do. Their political views are different to ours - and frankly, are often quite offensive. They dress differently to us. I wouldn't want my sister to marry one of them.

But that's enough about my next door neighbours.

Now remind me again how the country would be so different if a few more percent of the population were immigrants?

Face it - you don't know (or have much in common with) most of the people born in your country. Why do you care where people you don't know were born?

Nobody is asking you to befriend a refugee. Just to share your country with him. Add him to the list of the other tens of millions of people in your country who you don't really know or care about. It changes nothing in your life - but it might save his.

 

[Axulus]

They are not like us.

They don't eat the same food. They don't have the same religious views. They have different ideas about how many children to have. They compete with us for jobs. Their cooking smells are offensive. Their kids are often poorly educated, and slow down the teaching process in our schools. They don't share our interests - they support different sporting teams, and even different sports than we do. Their political views are different to ours - and frankly, are often quite offensive. They dress differently to us. I wouldn't want my sister to marry one of them.

But that's enough about my next door neighbours.

Now remind me again how the country would be so different if a few more percent of the population were immigrants?

Face it - you don't know (or have much in common with) most of the people born in your country. Why do you care where people you don't know were born?

Nobody is asking you to befriend a refugee. Just to share your country with him. Add him to the list of the other tens of millions of people in your country who you don't really know or care about. It changes nothing in your life - but it might save his.

To be fair, you forgot the following:

They hate homosexuals, they tend to be anti-Semitic, a significant portion of them wish to impose Islam on all of society and for the state to be governed by Islam, they are misogynistic, and they wish to insulate their children from secular education, and they are against freedom of speech, thought and expression.

 

[untermensche]

They are not like us.

They don't eat the same food. They don't have the same religious views. They have different ideas about how many children to have. They compete with us for jobs. Their cooking smells are offensive. Their kids are often poorly educated, and slow down the teaching process in our schools. They don't share our interests - they support different sporting teams, and even different sports than we do. Their political views are different to ours - and frankly, are often quite offensive. They dress differently to us. I wouldn't want my sister to marry one of them.

But that's enough about my next door neighbours.

Now remind me again how the country would be so different if a few more percent of the population were immigrants?

Face it - you don't know (or have much in common with) most of the people born in your country. Why do you care where people you don't know were born?

Nobody is asking you to befriend a refugee. Just to share your country with him. Add him to the list of the other tens of millions of people in your country who you don't really know or care about. It changes nothing in your life - but it might save his.

To be fair, you forgot the following:

They hate homosexuals, they tend to be anti-Semitic, a significant portion of them wish to impose Islam on all of society and for the state to be governed by Islam, they are misogynistic, and they wish to insulate their children from secular education, and they are against freedom of speech, thought and expression.

Have you ever known one?

 

[bilby]

They are not like us.

They don't eat the same food. They don't have the same religious views. They have different ideas about how many children to have. They compete with us for jobs. Their cooking smells are offensive. Their kids are often poorly educated, and slow down the teaching process in our schools. They don't share our interests - they support different sporting teams, and even different sports than we do. Their political views are different to ours - and frankly, are often quite offensive. They dress differently to us. I wouldn't want my sister to marry one of them.

But that's enough about my next door neighbours.

Now remind me again how the country would be so different if a few more percent of the population were immigrants?

Face it - you don't know (or have much in common with) most of the people born in your country. Why do you care where people you don't know were born?

Nobody is asking you to befriend a refugee. Just to share your country with him. Add him to the list of the other tens of millions of people in your country who you don't really know or care about. It changes nothing in your life - but it might save his.

To be fair, you forgot the following:

They hate homosexuals, they tend to be anti-Semitic, a significant portion of them wish to impose Islam on all of society and for the state to be governed by Islam, they are misogynistic, and they wish to insulate their children from secular education, and they are against freedom of speech, thought and expression.

A non-trivial proportion of my non-immigrant neighbours hate homosexuals, tend to be anti-Semitic, a significant portion of them wish to impose their religion on all of society and for the state to be governed by people who share their faith, they are misogynistic, and they wish to insulate their children from secular education, and they are against freedom of speech, thought and expression.

So, yes, I failed to list those traits; But they don't actually alter my point in any meaningful way.

 

[Axulus]

To be fair, you forgot the following:

They hate homosexuals, they tend to be anti-Semitic, a significant portion of them wish to impose Islam on all of society and for the state to be governed by Islam, they are misogynistic, and they wish to insulate their children from secular education, and they are against freedom of speech, thought and expression.

A non-trivial proportion of my non-immigrant neighbours hate homosexuals, tend to be anti-Semitic, a significant portion of them wish to impose their religion on all of society and for the state to be governed by people who share their faith, they are misogynistic, and they wish to insulate their children from secular education, and they are against freedom of speech, thought and expression.

So, yes, I failed to list those traits; But they don't actually alter my point in any meaningful way.

It should potentially alter it: how many of those types can a healthy society tolerate? Surely there is a percentage limit for a healthy Western liberal secular democracy, where when the percent goes over that threshold, the society loses one or more of those very important characteristics?

 

[bilby]

A non-trivial proportion of my non-immigrant neighbours hate homosexuals, tend to be anti-Semitic, a significant portion of them wish to impose their religion on all of society and for the state to be governed by people who share their faith, they are misogynistic, and they wish to insulate their children from secular education, and they are against freedom of speech, thought and expression.

So, yes, I failed to list those traits; But they don't actually alter my point in any meaningful way.

It should potentially alter it: how many of those types can a healthy society tolerate? Surely there is a percentage limit for a healthy functioning Western liberal secular democracy, where when the percent goes over that threshold, the society takes a turn for the worse?

I imagine that that 'tipping point' is FAR in excess of the numbers currently being mischaracterised as a 'flood' by the media. The total number of Syrian refugees (excluding internally displaced persons still in Syria) is about 3 million; That's about 0.2% of the EU population.

If they all had exactly identical political beliefs, and were all granted full citizenship and voting rights (neither of which is close to being true), then their effect on poll results would likely still be comparable to the margin of error in the polls. If they ALL went ONLY to the UK, then maybe their political power would be enough to influence party policy at Westminster; but that's really not going to happen.

If any OECD nation is already so close to that tipping point that this tiny extra input would push it over the edge, then we have a much bigger problem than a mere refugee crisis.