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Explaining Privilege: It may not be what you think.


That's some industrial grade bullshit. Black of any gender and sexual orientation is a far easier difficulty setting. Want to get into Harvard or medical school? You can get in with far worse grades and test scores if you select the "black" difficulty setting at the loading screen. You'll have to hit the books much harder if you select the "white" difficulty setting. Of course, that is still not the hardest one. If you really want a hard setting, try playing as "Asian". :)

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HARVARD_CRIMSON.SAT_RACE1.chart_.jpg
 
Excellent atticle!

It's a bullshit atticle[sic]!

Fantastic analogy :)

Mindy Kaling's brother tried applying to med school when selecting "Indian" and "Black" difficulty settings. Guess which one got in?



The objective is to extend that privilege to everyone else.

N-word privileges for everyone? Mediocre GPA/SAT admissions to Harvard for everybody?
 
There are many quantifiable metrics thereof. employment rate, differential salaries, college admissions, likelihood of a home or student loan, geographic access to key vocational markets, access to fresh fruits and vegetables, the list goes on and on.

Those are outcomes, not privileges. It's like saying Roger Federer or Serena Williams had some sort of "privilege" simply because they had been so dominant in their sport for so long.
 
Privilege is not something you keep in a barrel like pickles and you just reach your hand in when you need some. It is more like you are a fish and privilege is the water you swim in.

An Example of privilege is:

I get to get lost in strange buildings because I don't have to remember how I get into places. I can walk. I can take more than one route. I can go into a building on a ramp and come out using steps. Any exit will get me out.

A person in a wheelchair cannot do these things. They have to remember how they get into places because that is often the only way they can get out. They have to pay attention to where exit signs are and if they are handicap accessible. They have to know how wide hallways are and if all or only some bathrooms are accessible to them. Things the able bodied don't have to think about.

No, it is not. This is a difference in ability. Privilege is about formal and informal treatment by society, especially when it occurs for no good reason.
And yes, I know you will say how accessible a building is is a product of society. But imagine trying to navigate the natural world instead of man-made buildings! The difference in accessibility of even pre-ADA buildings compared to say having to go cross-country is colossal. So that's not a good analogy at all.

Example in the area that you really want to talk about - skin color.

Ability to synthesize vitamin D efficiently even at higher latitudes is not privilege. Neither is the ability to more effectively protect one's skin from photodamage in lower latitudes and/or higher altitudes.

But things like Jim Crow Laws in the past or so-called "Affirmative Action" or "n-word privilege" are examples of privilege.

Or another, perhaps a bit silly, example: penis size.
Having a small or large penis is difference in natural endowment. It's not privilege in itself.
But societal stereotypes about dick size are about how people are treated in society and thus are an example of privilege, because generally (but not always, of course) being thought of as having a big dick is seen as a good thing.

Society is not the natural world. It is a human construct. Like a building. Therefore the comparison is valid.

Btw, unlike your little friends, I will not be following you or your goalposts down the garden path.

Have a great day!
 
Society is not the natural world. It is a human construct. Like a building. Therefore the comparison is valid.
Not really. Natural world is unforgiving toward those with serious disabilities. Things like buildings, wheelchairs and the like are able to make things far better than in the natural world but of course, they cannot do it perfectly because the disability in question is still a real difference in natural abilities.

Privilege granted based on race on the other hand are privileges (or handicaps) given by society for no good reason. And that is wrong, no matter whose ox is being gored.

Btw, unlike your little friends, I will not be following you or your goalposts down the garden path.
No goalpost shifting. Just pointing out how your analogy is not valid.

P.S.: I am curious if you admit or deny existence of pretty extensive black privileges in our contemporary society.
 
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Those who are especially good at whining and preaching are the most privileged of all.
 
There are many quantifiable metrics thereof. employment rate, differential salaries, college admissions, likelihood of a home or student loan, geographic access to key vocational markets, access to fresh fruits and vegetables, the list goes on and on.

Those are outcomes, not privileges. It's like saying Roger Federer or Serena Williams had some sort of "privilege" simply because they had been so dominant in their sport for so long.

Oh, how neat. If privilege has any measurable effect, we should ignore that because the effect is an "outcome". Very convenient for you.

I'll go tell my doctor that he can't prove I have cancer since he can only prove that I have symptoms, not the disease.
 
Some elderly and middle aged white people who DID have an unfair advantages are willing to throw their children and grandchildren who DON'T under the bus now.

Get with the times you old motherfuckers.
 
Pray tell, when (please specify the year) did this magical event occur that suddenly made privilege disappear?

Show your work.
 

That's some industrial grade bullshit. Black of any gender and sexual orientation is a far easier difficulty setting. Want to get into Harvard or medical school? You can get in with far worse grades and test scores if you select the "black" difficulty setting at the loading screen. You'll have to hit the books much harder if you select the "white" difficulty setting. Of course, that is still not the hardest one. If you really want a hard setting, try playing as "Asian". :)

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Not replying to Derec. Just wanted to point out to the unaware reader that this graph represents a time not soon after Black people were substantially oppressed. It has been only 50ish years (as of those court documents) since the civil rights movement that white people had the privilege of not needing to do prior to applying at Harvard. So yes, you are going to see a lot of blacks trying to get a piece of the American pie in droves especially by means of affirmative action (a policy that was put in place to counter the privilege Derec claims doesn't exist).

Carry on.
 
The irony of that initial sentence sped right by you.
. Black of any gender and sexual orientation is a far easier difficulty setting. ...
As usual, you missed the entire point of the OP and that article. To use your terminology, you are pointing at outcomes. But please repeat your claim to George Floyd or Tamir Rice or "Ahmed something".
 
Well I guess it’s good to see that admission to Harvard remains the ONLY form of discrimination against white men. Nice that it makes it easy for Derec to respond when he never has to look anything up because there’s only the one problem, so he can just reuse the same argument. That’s handy.

Also handy that the ONLY thing that matters in college success is SAT scores, so derec can claim that alone should be everyone’s measure for admissions.

It’sa simple life in a two-sided dice world.
 
Oh, how neat. If privilege has any measurable effect, we should ignore that because the effect is an "outcome". Very convenient for you.

Nothing personal, but this is text book "fallacy of the excluded middle". There's a huge grey area in between ignoring data and regarding it as proof.

I remember something from a big bank. They were accused of discrimination against black people for home loans, because a much higher percentage of white applications were approved. The claim was that the bank was requiring higher standards for blacks than whites.

But there was actual evidence in that particular case. If black people were held to higher standards than whites, black borrowers would perform better over time. They'd have a lower rate of late payment and foreclosure than whites. But that wasn't the case, loan performance was virtually identical.

Just because some data supports your beliefs doesn't make it proof.
Tom
 
Oh, how neat. If privilege has any measurable effect, we should ignore that because the effect is an "outcome". Very convenient for you.

Nothing personal, but this is text book "fallacy of the excluded middle". There's a huge grey area in between ignoring data and regarding it as proof.

I remember something from a big bank. They were accused of discrimination against black people for home loans, because a much higher percentage of white applications were approved. The claim was that the bank was requiring higher standards for blacks than whites.

But there was actual evidence in that particular case. If black people were held to higher standards than whites, black borrowers would perform better over time. They'd have a lower rate of late payment and foreclosure than whites. But that wasn't the case, loan performance was virtually identical.

Just because some data supports your beliefs doesn't make it proof.
Tom
No one said anything about proof. He asked whether there was any way to quantify privilege, and then effectively dismissed nay possible means of doing so as an "outcome" and therefore not evidence. All of the data you cite in your response are also measures of "outcomes" as well.
 
Oh, how neat. If privilege has any measurable effect, we should ignore that because the effect is an "outcome". Very convenient for you.

Nothing personal, but this is text book "fallacy of the excluded middle". There's a huge grey area in between ignoring data and regarding it as proof.

I remember something from a big bank. They were accused of discrimination against black people for home loans, because a much higher percentage of white applications were approved. The claim was that the bank was requiring higher standards for blacks than whites.

But there was actual evidence in that particular case. If black people were held to higher standards than whites, black borrowers would perform better over time. They'd have a lower rate of late payment and foreclosure than whites. But that wasn't the case, loan performance was virtually identical.

Just because some data supports your beliefs doesn't make it proof.
Tom
No one said anything about proof. He asked whether there was any way to quantify privilege, and then effectively dismissed nay possible means of doing so as an "outcome" and therefore not evidence. All of the data you cite in your response are also measures of "outcomes" as well.

There isn't much you can measure, other than outcomes and statistics, neither of which is particularly good evidence under most circumstances.

But sometimes I hear people complaining that it's no longer legal to discriminate against anybody except straight white male Christians. I also hear people talking about current race related issues as though it's 1965, and black people can barely vote. Both ends of the spectrum sound idiotic to me, but they tend to be noisy.
Tom
 
Differences exist. Duh! The problem with these arguments is that it's just the disparate outcome argument in different clothes. Disparate outcome does not prove discrimination, it only suggests areas to check for discrimination.

It’s the racism of the gaps.

Well, no. That's not what it is. It's not about disparate outcomes - it's about different measures and different rules being applied to different people based on an inherent trait rather than on their abilities and skills. It's about recognizing that we, as humans, build our world. We don't exist in nature as it is, we alter our environments. And generally speaking, the people who design those environments tend to be the 'dominant' group within any given society.

Sometimes dominance is conferred by simple majority - the majority of people are right-handed, thus most hand-held items are built for right-handed people, and it can be difficult for a left-handed person to find tools that work well for them. The more specialized the tool is, the more difficult it can be to find tools that a left-handed person can use. The same thing is true with respect to height. Most things in the world are built to accommodate the normal height range of humans. For those of us who are quite a bit shorter than average, that can present a challenge that other people aren't even aware of. For example, when I'm at the grocery store, I end up either having to ask a stranger to get something off of a top shelf for me, or I climb the shelves. I'm 46 years old, and I end up scaling the shelves like a monkey because I can't reach the top shelf. It's embarrassing... and it's something that most people never even think about. Most people can reach those shelves just fine, and it never even occurs to them that the height could be a barrier. The same holds true for people with physical disabilities, who face very different challenges and barriers moving through the world. That kind of privilege - the privilege of "normality" is widespread, but at least it's not malicious or detrimental. It's mostly inconvenient, and most of the time people are willing to lend a hand to accommodate people who are otherwise barred from those social interactions.

Other times, dominance is conferred by the social status and power of the group doing the designing. And in that situation, the beliefs and perceptions of that group can be an invisible barrier that results in different opportunities and different measuring scales for people that are not part of the dominant group. Social stereotypes about sex, race, etc. end up playing into a lot of situations in ways that the dominant group are completely unaware of - because they aren't the ones who face those stereotypes. There are a lot of things that women experience that men never do, and that men don't even know exist a lot of times. The question asked in the other thread about "What if men had a 9:00 curfew" and how that would affect women is a good example. There are a LOT of things that women are aware of and deal with on a daily basis that just aren't a concern to men. It's not necessarily that they don't care about women, it's that men are blind to it altogether - they genuinely don't even know it's a thing at all.

That same concept is true when it comes to race. There are deep-seated conditioned stereotypes on the basis of race that are part of all of our upbringings. It's not conscious, most of them are things we're not even remotely aware of. But they're there. Some of us are more aware of it than others.

As an example, my spouse knows full well that he's got some grade-a white privilege going on. He likes fast cars, and he's not always great about following speed limits. Our friends are quite diverse, though. So when my spouse is out horsing around, he has little care about it. He's aware of his surroundings and very unlikely to hurt anyone (he always plays in areas without traffic). But he also has little concern if he does get pulled over. He has no worry that he's going to have his car searched, or that he'll be treated as a criminal. Most likely, he'll get a "tone it down a bit" lecture and maybe a ticket (more often a warning). On the other hand, our Puerto Rican friend would probably not get that same treatment. There's a much higher likelihood that he would end up getting his car searched, and he'd be approached right off the bat as if he were a suspect for a horrible crime. My step brother, who is black, has similar experiences, and I've witnessed them first hand.

Privilege isn't a matter of different outcomes. It's a matter of different rules and different experiences moving through the world.
 
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