Father arrested and jailed for calling his biologically female daughter "she": this week in the strange death of Canada

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Some questions....

What is the reason the majority of articles refer to the father as biological father...does he not have primary custody?

In the US, there are privacy laws for health HIPAA and for school FERPA. No equal time to health experts or counselors in news articles is given...is it because there are analogous privacy laws in Canada? So we can't hear refutations of father's claims?

What is the reason conservative sources focus exclusively on the biological father's opinions instead of the mother and teenager?

Does anyone know experts dealing with the issue, the teen, and mother are all in agreement? I've only seen the mere existence of the mother mentioned once. Why is that?

The stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, acceptance. How will the system help the father through this process?

 

[TomC]

Secondly and more importantly: parents are sometimes horribly, horribly abusive in the name of doing what the parent things is right:

But, somehow, you know that isn't the mother.

Perhaps you don't have as much experience with bitter ex-spouses as I do. And have the standard feminist bias against men.

You and I didn't just meet.
Tom

 

[SimpleDon]

“not offensive”. “not an insult”. To whom?

And there you have it.
Metaphor insists his outlook on this is the only correct one.
The father insists his is the only correct outlook on his son's situation.
No compromise, no openness to discussion, no tolerance for all the actual science, just those parts of the textbook they agree with.

He's not held in contempt for insisting on biology. He's in contempt for making his child's case all about himself.

"Tolerance for the science". Good god. Are you kidding me? What 'science' says that biological girls are boys and must be referred to as 'he'?

But even if the science did say that, how can you so easily endorse the State punishing this man for expressing his truth?

is there no upper limit to the outrages that the left will endorse from the transactivist ideology?

You should take your science skepticism over to the "What do you want to do with the little people" thread where this person is quoting scientific study after study to presumably prove that genetics condemns the poor to be poor and that there is nothing that we can do about it.

http://faculty.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/gclark/ClarkGlasgow2021.pdf

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Secondly and more importantly: parents are sometimes horribly, horribly abusive in the name of doing what the parent things is right:

But, somehow, you know that isn't the mother.

Perhaps you don't have as much experience with bitter ex-spouses as I do. And have the standard feminist bias against men.

You and I didn't just meet.
Tom

Huh?

Health experts, the mother, the teen, and an independent judge are all on the same page.

 

[Toni]

Secondly and more importantly: parents are sometimes horribly, horribly abusive in the name of doing what the parent things is right:

But, somehow, you know that isn't the mother.

Perhaps you don't have as much experience with bitter ex-spouses as I do. And have the standard feminist bias against men.

You and I didn't just meet.
Tom

I was not speaking about this particular set of parents.

We do not know anything about the situation beyond the fact that the father kept insisting on referring to his child as female, despite the FACT that the child hated that and the fact that a judge told the father to cease and desist--and the father refused.

It would have been equally terrible for the mother to do the same thing.


How do you feel about a parent who feels their male child isn't sufficiently 'tough enough' or masculine enough and so calls their child Nancy, in order to express their own contempt for their child and to attempt to shame the child into conforming to whatever gender standards the parent thinks is appropriate?

No, you and I did not just meet. I feel as though I've known you all my life. Perhaps we even went to high school together. Would not surprise me one little bit.

Perhaps you should leave your own personal and obviously very bitter experiences with former spouses out of this discussion. Unless your former spouse refused to acknowledge one of your children's gender.

 

[Trausti]

Define biological female.

What Toni is?

That's an example and not a definition.

The power of religious and political ideology to deny reality is extraordinary.

The impact of sex on gene expression across human tissues

Many complex human phenotypes exhibit sex-differentiated characteristics. However, the molecular mechanisms underlying these differences remain largely unknown. We generated a catalog of sex differences in gene expression and in the genetic regulation of gene expression across 44 human tissue sources surveyed by the Genotype-Tissue Expression project (GTEx, v8 release). We demonstrate that sex influences gene expression levels and cellular composition of tissue samples across the human body. A total of 37% of all genes exhibit sex-biased expression in at least one tissue. We identify cis expression quantitative trait loci (eQTLs) with sex-differentiated effects and characterize their cellular origin. By integrating sex-biased eQTLs with genome-wide association study data, we identify 58 gene-trait associations that are driven by genetic regulation of gene expression in a single sex. These findings provide an extensive characterization of sex differences in the human transcriptome and its genetic regulation.

 

[Trausti]

Why did evolution produce sexual dimorphism? Why a male and female? Apparently, for no reason whatsoever.

 

[Toni]

That's an example and not a definition.

The power of religious and political ideology to deny reality is extraordinary.

The impact of sex on gene expression across human tissues

Many complex human phenotypes exhibit sex-differentiated characteristics. However, the molecular mechanisms underlying these differences remain largely unknown. We generated a catalog of sex differences in gene expression and in the genetic regulation of gene expression across 44 human tissue sources surveyed by the Genotype-Tissue Expression project (GTEx, v8 release). We demonstrate that sex influences gene expression levels and cellular composition of tissue samples across the human body. A total of 37% of all genes exhibit sex-biased expression in at least one tissue. We identify cis expression quantitative trait loci (eQTLs) with sex-differentiated effects and characterize their cellular origin. By integrating sex-biased eQTLs with genome-wide association study data, we identify 58 gene-trait associations that are driven by genetic regulation of gene expression in a single sex. These findings provide an extensive characterization of sex differences in the human transcriptome and its genetic regulation.

I'm aware.

I'm also aware that science demonstrates structural differences in the brains of transgendered individuals compared with brains of those whose chromosomal array conforms to their assigned gender/genitals.

In fact, your link suggests the same. Almost every individual has either a set of XY or XX chromosomes and almost all of these individuals exhibit external genitalia that is unambiguously male or female, in correspondence to their chromosomal display. But we know that this is not universally true: Some individuals have XXY or XYY or XXX chromosomes and other more rare arrays. Some individuals are born with ambiguous genitalia and some are born with external genitalia that does not conform to their internal organs. And some individuals chromosomes and external genitalia do not conform to the standard in terms of brain structures, This is simply fact.

 

[Toni]

Why did evolution produce sexual dimorphism? Why a male and female? Apparently, for no reason whatsoever.

Why do you believe that everything is either black or white? Or that everything fits into neat little packages?

 

[Toni]

That's an example and not a definition.

The power of religious and political ideology to deny reality is extraordinary

The willingness to ignore the definition of well, definition, in service of one's political and/or religious ideology is as sad as it is obvious.

 

[J842P]

Define biological female.

A biological female, in sexually reproducing species, is an organism that produces large, (and depending on the species) generally immotile gametes. Males, on the other hand, produce small, motile gametes (again, depending on the species).

This is a phenomenon that has apparently evolved several time independently as a form of ansiogamy. It is well defined, and quite a major feature of biology.

 

[TomC]

Secondly and more importantly: parents are sometimes horribly, horribly abusive in the name of doing what the parent things is right:

But, somehow, you know that isn't the mother.

Perhaps you don't have as much experience with bitter ex-spouses as I do. And have the standard feminist bias against men.

You and I didn't just meet.
Tom

Huh?

Health experts, the mother, the teen, and an independent judge are all on the same page.

Let me rephrase this.

"The mother found health experts and a judge who agreed with her."
I doubt that's difficult to do in the modern world, especially Canada.

That doesn't change the fact that the child didn't, couldn't, do it. Apparently, the school also got involved without telling the parents.

Sorry, this still looks more like manipulating and punishing the dad for not agreeing with his vindictive ex-wife.
Tom

 

[J842P]

I'm aware.

I'm also aware that science demonstrates structural differences in the brains of transgendered individuals compared with brains of those whose chromosomal array conforms to their assigned gender/genitals.

No, science does not "demonstrate" this. I think it is likely true, but there is no clear convincing evidence of this, although I think we will work it out soon.

Also, you aren't "assigned" genitals or sex. Sex is a feature that is *discovered* or *identified*. It is not "assigned".

 

[laughing dog]

You'd be very very wrong.

What's going on here is a 14y/o making a huge life decision over the objections of a parent. The child isn't legally able to buy a six pack, sign a credit card contract, get married, get a tattoo, or bang the neighbor dude. Because 14y/o aren't competent adults. This is especially true when a parent gets involved and pointedly refuses permission.

I realize the thorny problem of underage trans people. But that judge is wa-a-a-y out of line. "Removed from the bench" out of line. Jailing a parent for doing what's right, in the parent's own opinion, for his own child is over the line.

Sorry, this is politically correct ideology out of control.
Tom

You don't think the father could have handled this in a far better way?

Not being privy to family dynamic of this particular broken family, of course I'm not sure.

Regardless of the family dynamic, the father is being deliberately hurtful towards his child. In fact, he is willing to continue to be hurtful even at risk of contempt of court. If you cannot see there was a better way to handle this (i.e. either shutting his piehole or show some effort to avoid hurting his child), rational discussion on this situation is not possible.

 

[Toni]

Define biological female.

A biological female, in sexually reproducing species, is an organism that produces large, (and depending on the species) generally immotile gametes. Males, on the other hand, produce small, motile gametes (again, depending on the species).

This is a phenomenon that has apparently evolved several time independently as a form of ansiogamy. It is well defined, and quite a major feature of biology.

Human female children are sometimes born without a uterus or Fallopian tubes or even without one or both ovaries (or occasionally with an extra ovary) but with normal female external genitalia.

A male child can be born without testicles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_agenesis_and_testicular_agenesis

There are many situations where an individual is born without the 'standard' gender conforming external genitalia or internal gonads and other reproductive structures.

 

[Trausti]

That's an example and not a definition.

The power of religious and political ideology to deny reality is extraordinary

The willingness to ignore the definition of well, definition, in service of one's political and/or religious ideology is as sad as it is obvious.

How does a rational person like you arrive at a point where you deny biological differences between male and female? It’s just fascinating.

 

[Jarhyn]

Huh?

Health experts, the mother, the teen, and an independent judge are all on the same page.

Let me rephrase this.

"The mother found health experts and a judge who agreed with her."
I doubt that's difficult to do in the modern world, especially Canada.

That doesn't change the fact that the child didn't, couldn't, do it. Apparently, the school also got involved without telling the parents.

Sorry, this still looks more like manipulating and punishing the dad for not agreeing with his vindictive ex-wife.
Tom

Ah so the child here is just chopped liver then.

It wasn't the mother who was being agitated by the father's inability to respect the wishes of their child. It wasn't even really the judge. Instead, it was the son himself who objected to the abusive treatment, and sought relief from this abuse from the judge.

It is no different than if my ex was in court insisting on using the "shortened" version of my name, which I have eschewed since long before she ever met me, despite the fact that it is not my actual name, is not a name I accept, and is a name whose use harkens me back to the experience of having been groomed, given alcohol, and then being sexually taken advantage of.

I'd push for a contempt charge, and that's just over a nickname.

 

[laughing dog]

The willingness to ignore the definition of well, definition, in service of one's political and/or religious ideology is as sad as it is obvious.

How does a rational person like you arrive at a point where you deny biological differences between male and female? It’s just fascinating.

How does a rational person like you consistently arrive at such ridiculous straw men?

 

[Toni]

I'm aware.

I'm also aware that science demonstrates structural differences in the brains of transgendered individuals compared with brains of those whose chromosomal array conforms to their assigned gender/genitals.

No, science does not "demonstrate" this. I think it is likely true, but there is no clear convincing evidence of this, although I think we will work it out soon.

Also, you aren't "assigned" genitals or sex. Sex is a feature that is *discovered* or *identified*. It is not "assigned".

I did not say that one is assigned genitals--although in the case of ambiguous genitals, that does actually happen.

I was perhaps sloppy in my writing: gender does not always conform to external genitalia, although it is much more common that it does. Which is why we look at a newborn's groin area and pronounce that the child is male or is female.

But sometimes, the genitals are ambiguous and sometimes, the external genitalia does not match gonads. And sometimes it does not match brain structure.

Nature is wonderful in its vast display of variety.

 

[Jarhyn]

The willingness to ignore the definition of well, definition, in service of one's political and/or religious ideology is as sad as it is obvious.

How does a rational person like you arrive at a point where you deny biological differences between male and female? It’s just fascinating.

How does a rational person like you consistently arrive at such ridiculous straw men?

Flag on the field, five yard penalty, question assumes facts not in evidence.