Father arrested and jailed for calling his biologically female daughter "she": this week in the strange death of Canada

[ZiprHead]

Do Ex-Men turn up the thermostat like biological women or do they prefer it cooler like men?

This is a serious conversation not a bigoted zinger contest.

FTFY

 

[Trausti]

Do Ex-Men turn up the thermostat like biological women or do they prefer it cooler like men?

This is a serious conversation not a zinger contest.

That is a serious question. If you’re claiming biology is fluid.

 

[Angry Floof]

“not offensive”. “not an insult”. To whom?

To the person he kept calling "daughter" and "she" and "her" long after he had told his father what he's experiencing and that he wanted to be called "him" and not "her." The father purposely kept using female pronouns to the point where it was abusive to his child. It amounts to name calling, which he did on purpose when asked not to.

For example, imagine that I called Metaphor a "testerical purveyor of bigotry." He probably wouldn't like it. It would amount to name calling. So if I just relentlessly referred to Metaphor as a testerical purveyor of bigotry after he repeatedly asked me to stop, most anyone would consider that abusive and bullying. Then imagine Metaphor rightfully takes steps to stop me calling him a testerical purveyor of bigotry, such as reporting my posts, and the mods decide I should be warned or infracted for calling Metaphor a testerical purveyor of bigotry and they tell me to stop immediately. Then imagine I just keep calling Metaphor a testerical purveyor of bigotry anyway. I'd get more infractions and suspensions until I ended up getting banned.

That's what the story is here. It costs nothing to say him or her at someone's request, especially your own child. But he kept it up because his right wing moronic bigoted views are more important than his child's well being.

EDIT - I think I misunderstood your post. I thought you were asking who was insulted. But my post stands on its own in response to this thread so I'm leaving it.

 

[Jarhyn]

“not offensive”. “not an insult”. To whom?

To the person he kept calling "daughter" and "she" and "her" long after he had told his father what he's experiencing and that he wanted to be called "him" and not "her." The father purposely kept using female pronouns to the point where it was abusive to his child. It amounts to name calling, which he did on purpose when asked not to.

For example, imagine that I called Metaphor a "testerical purveyor of bigotry." He probably wouldn't like it. It would amount to name calling. So if I just relentlessly referred to Metaphor as a testerical purveyor of bigotry after he repeatedly asked me to stop, most anyone would consider that abusive and bullying. Then imagine Metaphor rightfully takes steps to stop me calling him a testerical purveyor of bigotry, such as reporting my posts, and the mods decide I should be warned or infracted for calling Metaphor a testerical purveyor of bigotry and they tell me to stop immediately. Then imagine I just keep calling Metaphor a testerical purveyor of bigotry anyway. I'd get more infractions and suspensions until I ended up getting banned.

That's what the story is here. It costs nothing to say him or her at someone's request, especially your own child. But he kept it up because his right wing moronic bigoted views are more important than his child's well being.

EDIT - I think I misunderstood your post. I thought you were asking who was insulted.

I really wish sometimes that it was possible to rep a post twice.

Obviously, the title of the thread leaves out a lot of relevant information in order to create a lie of omission.

We, as the peanut gallery, should have zero knowledge of the contents of this boy's pants. The title more appropriately should read "father insists on abusively calling his son a woman in court, judge holds him in rightfully in contempt."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Define biological female.

I would presume based on the organs at birth.

 

[laughing dog]

Europe, Scotland, and Canada are dead. Which country is next?

 

[Jarhyn]

Define biological female.

I would presume based on the organs at birth.

Which organs, through? The brain? The genitals? The skeletal system? Any of the other slightly differentiated organs?

Presumably, there is every possibility owing to the messy nature of biology that there may be some discordance between the differentiations that happened.

 

[Jarhyn]

Europe, Scotland, and Canada are dead. Which country is next?

Australia, I hope. Then maybe we'll get some peace and quiet around here without constant whinges about the slow decline of sex and gender absolutism.

 

[laughing dog]

I can understand that this father is upset. I can understand he disagree with what is happening (even if I disagree with him). But his insistence to hurt his child is to me the real issue here. It makes me wonder if he should continue to have parental rights.

 

[scombrid]

contempt of court.

End of story. Doubt I need to read the rest of the thread since this full stop appears a couple of lines into the opening post.

 

[Jarhyn]

Hell, if he wasn't so determined on "being right, according to himself" he could at the very least have avoided a contempt charge by falling back to "they/them".

 

[Swammerdami]

Europe, Scotland, and Canada are dead. Which country is next?

Same-sex marriage is now legal in Thailand. Soon it will be just Chad, North Korea, Burundi, South Sudan and the ghost of U.S. Flyover-Land against the rest of the world.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Define biological female.

I would presume based on the organs at birth.

Which organs, through? The brain? The genitals? The skeletal system? Any of the other slightly differentiated organs?

Presumably, there is every possibility owing to the messy nature of biology that there may be some discordance between the differentiations that happened.

When our twins were born three months premature, they went straight to the NICU. 2lbs 4oz and 2lbs 7oz. It was acouple days before wife and i could visit them.

We walked in, scrubbed up, and split. K1 was in Bay 2. I walked in, the nurse said, "Oh! I can finish the form!"...and marked the baby as white.
In Bay 4, nurse saw Mrs. &co. Said the same thing. Form then said the baby was black.

Maybe we shouldn't expect that even professionals always jump to the most obvious conclusions accurately.

 

[repoman]

I can understand that this father is upset. I can understand he disagree with what is happening (even if I disagree with him). But his insistence to hurt his child is to me the real issue here. It makes me wonder if he should continue to have parental rights.

Well on the off (but not impossible for sure) chance that his child is not transgender from a core body dysphoria but from a social role dysphoria or something, this father is making the child get his back up for no reason.

Imagine this child becomes and an adult and feels like a detransition would make sense - well now there is a some resentment built up and telling dad that he was right (maybe just by chance) will be hard to do.

Ideally, both the father and child should have the humility to know that the ability to permanently know that the child will either become trans forever or desist or detransition is crazy.

The dad is likely prone to black-or-white (no grayscale) thinking and this is just one example of it.

 

[TomC]

contempt of court.

End of story. Doubt I need to read the rest of the thread since this full stop appears a couple of lines into the opening post.

You'd be very very wrong.

What's going on here is a 14y/o making a huge life decision over the objections of a parent. The child isn't legally able to buy a six pack, sign a credit card contract, get married, get a tattoo, or bang the neighbor dude. Because 14y/o aren't competent adults. This is especially true when a parent gets involved and pointedly refuses permission.

I realize the thorny problem of underage trans people. But that judge is wa-a-a-y out of line. "Removed from the bench" out of line. Jailing a parent for doing what's right, in the parent's own opinion, for his own child is over the line.

Sorry, this is politically correct ideology out of control.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Define biological female.

What Toni is?

That's an example and not a definition.

 

[ZiprHead]

contempt of court.

End of story. Doubt I need to read the rest of the thread since this full stop appears a couple of lines into the opening post.

You'd be very very wrong.

What's going on here is a 14y/o making a huge life decision over the objections of a parent. The child isn't legally able to buy a six pack, sign a credit card contract, get married, get a tattoo, or bang the neighbor dude. Because 14y/o aren't competent adults. This is especially true when a parent gets involved and pointedly refuses permission.

I realize the thorny problem of underage trans people. But that judge is wa-a-a-y out of line. "Removed from the bench" out of line. Jailing a parent for doing what's right, in the parent's own opinion, for his own child is over the line.

Sorry, this is politically correct ideology out of control.
Tom

You don't think the father could have handled this in a far better way?

 

[TomC]

You'd be very very wrong.

What's going on here is a 14y/o making a huge life decision over the objections of a parent. The child isn't legally able to buy a six pack, sign a credit card contract, get married, get a tattoo, or bang the neighbor dude. Because 14y/o aren't competent adults. This is especially true when a parent gets involved and pointedly refuses permission.

I realize the thorny problem of underage trans people. But that judge is wa-a-a-y out of line. "Removed from the bench" out of line. Jailing a parent for doing what's right, in the parent's own opinion, for his own child is over the line.

Sorry, this is politically correct ideology out of control.
Tom

You don't think the father could have handled this in a far better way?

Not being privy to family dynamic of this particular broken family, of course I'm not sure.
Do you think that the judge could have handled it in a far better way? That is his job, after all. Based on the sketchy information available, I'm very confident that they could have.
Tom

 

[cycomiko]

You'd be very very wrong.

What's going on here is a 14y/o making a huge life decision over the objections of a parent. The child isn't legally able to buy a six pack, sign a credit card contract, get married, get a tattoo, or bang the neighbor dude. Because 14y/o aren't competent adults. This is especially true when a parent gets involved and pointedly refuses permission.

I realize the thorny problem of underage trans people. But that judge is wa-a-a-y out of line. "Removed from the bench" out of line. Jailing a parent for doing what's right, in the parent's own opinion, for his own child is over the line.

Sorry, this is politically correct ideology out of control.
Tom

You don't think the father could have handled this in a far better way?

Not being privy to family dynamic of this particular broken family, of course I'm not sure.
Do you think that the judge could have handled it in a far better way? That is his job, after all. Based on the sketchy information available, I'm very confident that they could have.
Tom

I think the child is in the custody of the mother and the mother sides with the child. The father was trying to force his will on the child and the judge said he doesn't have that right and the father was told to desist. The father did not desist so he was arrested. I think everyone could handle it better but, as you said, I don't know the dynamic of this family. The father could really be a controlling asshole trying to get some publicity by going on tv and doing interviews. He could also be truly concerned that his kid is making a mistake. There's always three sides to every story.

 

[Toni]

contempt of court.

End of story. Doubt I need to read the rest of the thread since this full stop appears a couple of lines into the opening post.

You'd be very very wrong.

What's going on here is a 14y/o making a huge life decision over the objections of a parent. The child isn't legally able to buy a six pack, sign a credit card contract, get married, get a tattoo, or bang the neighbor dude. Because 14y/o aren't competent adults. This is especially true when a parent gets involved and pointedly refuses permission.

I realize the thorny problem of underage trans people. But that judge is wa-a-a-y out of line. "Removed from the bench" out of line. Jailing a parent for doing what's right, in the parent's own opinion, for his own child is over the line.

Sorry, this is politically correct ideology out of control.
Tom

Wait a minute: 'jailing parent for doing what's right in the parent's own opinion?" Somehow, that's the standard?

First of all, the parent was jailed for contempt of court.

Secondly and more importantly: parents are sometimes horribly, horribly abusive in the name of doing what the parent things is right:

You know:

When a parent holds a child's hand over a flame until the palm is blistered or worse--because the child touched something they were forbidden?
Shaming a child for bedwetting.
Shaming a child for being over weight or under weight.
Refusing to allow a child to eat at the table with the rest of the family. Or at all.
Locking a child in a their room, a closet, a cage out back, in the garage, in the basement, in a shed in the back yard. In an underground container.
Forcing a child into a marriage with an adult.

And so on. Parents, or 'parents' sometimes do horrific things because 'they think that's in their child's best interests.'

Society can, should and DOES have standards for acceptable treatment of a child. Unfortunately, they are not standard enough and in many cases, are not enforced or are not...humane enough.

I understand that some very well meaning people struggle mightily with the concept of being transgender. I understand that the concept can be much, much, much harder if this is a child who is YOUR child. It's hard not to feel responsible for your child's behavior and expression, for how well they do in school or on the ball field or how many friends they have, how attractive they are, their hygiene. Some of these things should be the responsibility of parents but some things are absolutely not under the control of the parent nor should they be.

A parent's job is to raise their child with love and acceptance, with courtesy and respect for themselves and for others.

Frankly until about 25 years ago, I also struggled with the idea of transgendered individuals. I thought that it was perhaps confusion resulting from poor parenting or society's too rigid gender expectations.

And then I met a child, who was my child's friend and who was so very, very obviously transgender that I absolutely could not deny that they really and truly knew who and what they were and could not and would not be quiet and live in denial for the comfort or convenience of others. I struggled for a while because I absolutely believed there was some terrible parenting going on--mostly of the emotional abuse type-- but that was not centered on the child's gender at all and applied equally to all other children.

This little person was called a girl but he definitely called himself a boy. He did not say he wanted to be a boy or that he wished he was a boy but that he was a boy. This was so vastly different than my own recollections as a very devoted tomboy who did not wish to be a boy but who wanted to be given the same opportunities and freedoms as a boy, and who liked a lot of stereotypical 'boy' things: jeans and climbing trees and rocks and sticks and insects and frogs and toads. Taking apart a bicycle and putting it back together. Playing basketball. Arm wrestling. Math and science. I even tried very hard to learn to pee into a toilet standing up--which was very unsuccessful because at age 5 (and throughout my life) I was small for my age and could not properly straddle a toilet.

This was NOT this child. This was a child who, with his very heart and soul and being knew he was a boy. And as an adult, was able to undergo gender confirmation surgery and is now living his own happy life. There was no mistake, no denial (except on the part of the parents who, if they had been nicer people, I would have felt some sympathy for) about who this child was.