Fauci Should Be In Prison - Senator Rand Paul

[Loren Pechtel]

Oh the expendable people. Got it. They died. Wait... is that why the number above was dubious? Because the people were expendable or too old for people to give a fuck now?

Expendable? I never said that. People die all the time and they often die of something. Whether it be cancer, heart failure, high blood pressure or whatever. When elderly people die it is of course sad but is not a tragedy or unexpected nor is it something we should shut down the country for in order to extend some people's lives by a few months.

Years of life lost to COVID-19 in 81 countries - Scientific Reports

Understanding the mortality impact of COVID-19 requires not only counting the dead, but analyzing how premature the deaths are. We calculate years of life lost (YLL) across 81 countries due to COVID-19 attributable deaths, and also conduct an analysis based on estimated excess deaths. We find...

www.nature.com

"A few months" = "16 years". Admittedly, this has probably dropped a bit since. And note that Covid is in the ballpark to totally disable you about as often as it kills you and the picture gets worse.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Nah, you lecture and scold non conformists. Most of the guidelines were just bullshit. Gotta wear your mask in the restaurant walking to your table. When seated you may remove your mask for example.

Don't be mad at me because I wouldn't play along.

Given how the early versions behaved that was actually useful. The thing is the early versions required enough exposure that those more distant from the source of infection usually didn't become infected. If everyone wears a mask when moving around the number of opportunities for it to spread are far lower. Your failure to understand the physics doesn't make it nonsense. A way to visualize it: When you're unmasked you're a 6' circle. Walk across the room, how many people does that circle bump into? Compare that with the number that it bumps into when you're seated. Typically that will only be your own party (which very well might be exposed in other situations) and one adjacent table and booth type seating very well might move the next table out of the circle.

Against Omicron it would be basically useless, but that's not what we were facing then.

 

[JohnG]

It would be interesting if another novel virus came along in the near distant future. How would that play out?

I think a lot of people miss how much worse covid could have been if a few things were different. For example, if a vaccine hadn't come along, or if people didn't restrict movements, wear masks...if the virus mutated into more virulent strains...if it had even a slightly higher mortality rate. A lot of people were extremely critical of a cautionary approach and even feel vindicated in that view even though millions died and a life saving vaccine became available within a year. Masks saved lives, social distancing saved lives.

What happens when another one (it's just a matter of time) comes along? Will people say we over-reacted during Covid and we shouldn't take as many precautions? Last time around, very few seemed to understand that there were a lot of unknowns early on and it could have been much worse. The hit the economy took was a mere speedbump compared to the devastation that could have happened even if the mortality rate was a few percent higher. Ebola is 25% to 90%. Imagine something like that coming down the pipe with higher virulence meeting an unwilling population?

 

[Patooka]

It would be interesting if another novel virus came along in the near distant future. How would that play out?

I think a lot of people miss how much worse covid could have been if a few things were different. For example, if a vaccine hadn't come along, or if people didn't restrict movements, wear masks...if the virus mutated into more virulent strains...if it had even a slightly higher mortality rate. A lot of people were extremely critical of a cautionary approach and even feel vindicated in that view even though millions died and a life saving vaccine became available within a year. Masks saved lives, social distancing saved lives.

What happens when another one (it's just a matter of time) comes along? Will people say we over-reacted during Covid and we shouldn't take as many precautions? Last time around, very few seemed to understand that there were a lot of unknowns early on and it could have been much worse. The hit the economy took was a mere speedbump compared to the devastation that could have happened even if the mortality rate was a few percent higher. Ebola is 25% to 90%. Imagine something like that coming down the pipe with higher virulence meeting an unwilling population?

I suspect/hope that the problem would sort itself out. Instant triage for all the dumb cunts.

 

[JohnG]

It would be interesting if another novel virus came along in the near distant future. How would that play out?

I think a lot of people miss how much worse covid could have been if a few things were different. For example, if a vaccine hadn't come along, or if people didn't restrict movements, wear masks...if the virus mutated into more virulent strains...if it had even a slightly higher mortality rate. A lot of people were extremely critical of a cautionary approach and even feel vindicated in that view even though millions died and a life saving vaccine became available within a year. Masks saved lives, social distancing saved lives.

What happens when another one (it's just a matter of time) comes along? Will people say we over-reacted during Covid and we shouldn't take as many precautions? Last time around, very few seemed to understand that there were a lot of unknowns early on and it could have been much worse. The hit the economy took was a mere speedbump compared to the devastation that could have happened even if the mortality rate was a few percent higher. Ebola is 25% to 90%. Imagine something like that coming down the pipe with higher virulence meeting an unwilling population?

I suspect/hope that the problem would sort itself out. Instant triage for all the dumb cunts.

The problem as I see it is you need everyone on board. Viruses can only be contained if you have a huge majority buying in. The anti-science crowd can incubate all kids of nastiness that could make a protected population vulnerable.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I have some questions for you, @RVonse

(1) Do you prefer the wisdom of Rand Paul over that of objective thinkers and scientists? If not, why do you listen to him? If he had some useful and valid point to make, don't you think competent objective thinkers -- surely better sources -- would provide the same "information" you get from Senator Paul? (Or are the other 99 Senators, and all the professional scientists and analysts in the pockets of Big Woke or Big Green and we are fortunate to have "the voice of one dentist^* crying in the wilderness" to listen to? * -- Is Paul really a dentist?)

Recall that Rand Paul is the one who insisted on "auditing Fort Knox." He gave the impression that he thought much of the gold was simply missing and a visual inspection would suffice. (Another "theory" is that the gold has been replaced with gold-plated tungsten. Is there a portable test that Paul could have brought when he inspected Fort Knox?)

But in fact after making special arrangements for this inspection of Fort Knox, Paul declined to participate. Perhaps he was too busy shmoozing with some donor who wanted to congratulate Paul for his "audit!"

(2) Even assuming the allegations are true, do you really think Fauci should "be in prison". How about MTG, DJT etc? They committed much more perjury than Fauci ever did: should they be in prison?

(3) Assuming the allegations are true, do you think the new viruses got out of the lab due to incompetence, or due to malice? In either case, what would be the appropriate response? Nuke Beijing?

(4) If U.S. authorities suspected that Chinese malfeasance (or even just incompetence) was responsible for the pandemic, what would appropriate response be? The U.S. does NOT publish details of enemy weaponry, espionage, cyber attacks etc. I think there are good reasons to prefer diplomatic channels over publishing so that every Tom, Dick, and Rand can opine on whether to bomb Beijing or not. I realize this is a topic on which you and I have differing views. I have respect for professional scientists, intelligence experts, etc. You trust Ken and Karen Common_People over experts, presumably out of fear that experts have been co-opted by the Deep State or Islamo-Wokeism. (I can summarize my view by asking you to consider how utterly stupid the average American is; then noting that 49% of Americans are even stupider than that. Many even fall for conspiracy theories, like Rand Paul's Fort Knox is full of tungsten wet dream.)

(5) What do YOU think about the Covid vaccines, RVonse? I think that "LP" and QOPAnon are united on this issue; both oppose vaccines in general, and mandated vaccines especially. As another Infidel pointed out, it is hilarious that the same groups (LP and QOPAnon) who think the whole Covid scare was a hoax dreamt up by Fauci and the Deep State, ALSO think that Covid was a deadly pathogen foisted on us by a malicious China regime!

This mismatch -- American crazies simultaneously thinking BOTH that Covid was a bio-weapon AND that it was all just a hoax -- reminds me of this quote from Alice in Wonderland:

[After Alice said “There’s no use trying. One can’t believe impossible things.”]

I daresay you haven't had much practice. When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

*1) to 5) snip*

So... did Rand Paul lie?

@RVonse, I was curious whether I wasted my time.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It would be interesting if another novel virus came along in the near distant future. How would that play out?

H1N5. Plenty dangerous, just not meaningfully able to infect humans at present. Flu viruses are known for their ability to mutate. With an animal host it's all but impossible to stop.

I think a lot of people miss how much worse covid could have been if a few things were different. For example, if a vaccine hadn't come along, or if people didn't restrict movements, wear masks...if the virus mutated into more virulent strains...if it had even a slightly higher mortality rate. A lot of people were extremely critical of a cautionary approach and even feel vindicated in that view even though millions died and a life saving vaccine became available within a year. Masks saved lives, social distancing saved lives.

Actually, I don't think the lockdown saved all that many lives--the compliance was too poor.

And just think what would have happened if it had had the lethality of SARS? Or, even worse, MERS. The former had an R0 low enough that containment was possible. The latter has an R0 well below 1. Omicron infectivity + MERS lethality, I would expect collapse.

What happens when another one (it's just a matter of time) comes along? Will people say we over-reacted during Covid and we shouldn't take as many precautions? Last time around, very few seemed to understand that there were a lot of unknowns early on and it could have been much worse. The hit the economy took was a mere speedbump compared to the devastation that could have happened even if the mortality rate was a few percent higher. Ebola is 25% to 90%. Imagine something like that coming down the pipe with higher virulence meeting an unwilling population?

Something like that would take us out unless there was an adequate way to shield against it that could be deployed fast enough.

With something that lethal there will be too many holes poked in the supply chain. It will fall apart and very few people are in a position to survive if that happens.

 

[bilby]

Actually, I don't think the lockdown saved all that many lives--the compliance was too poor.

It did here.

As has already been pointed out many times in this thread.

As soon as it became clear to the Trump maladministration that most of the early deaths were in big cities (particularly New York), where most voters lean Democrat, your nation was doomed.

My state has seen 2,734 deaths from Covid, of which 8 occurred before restrictions were lifted in January of 2022.

Not a typo. Eight deaths in all of 2020 and 2021, in a state with 5.2 million people, whose first recorded case was in January 2020.

Two years of mandatory mask wearing in public, eight deaths. One and a sixth years of optional (but recommended) mask wearing in public, 2,726 deaths.

Anyone who says that restrictions (including, but not limited to, mandatory use of masks) are ineffective has to explain this small (580 times) difference in death rate per annum from Covid in Queensland.

To add:

We have a similar population to that of South Carolina, but approximately 10% of that state's total fatalities to date, demonstrating the value of locking down hard, until a sizeable fraction of our population had been vaccinated.

The much derided plan to lock down, vaccinate, and then slowly return to normal with the expectation that that would lead to fatalities, but far fewer of them than would've occurred without strict measures, has been completely vindicated by the facts.

Half-arsed measures didn't work. To people who have only the USA to look at, it's easy to imagine that the fact that half-arsed measures were ineffective is an indication that nothing should have been done. But it's equally supportive of the counter proposal that far more should have been done.

And a glance at places that did far more, would tell anyone that that's the right conclusion.

Of course, when accepting these facts would entail admitting that you lobbied for the needless deaths of millions of people, it can be very difficult to say "sorry, we were wrong". But it's something that must be said, if you are to avoid the same disaster next time around.

Your nation doing a completely half-arsed job of lockdown, because of your political idiocies, was bad enough.

To then add insult to injury by using the ineffectiveness of your half-arsed measures as a political idiocy in its own right is far worse.

Dashing across a busy highway when people who are paying attention are shouting "Stop!" is dumb; But not as dumb as dashing a third of the way across, and then stopping. And when you get hit by a truck, saying "See! I told you that stopping wasn't an effective strategy!"

 

[Jarhyn]

It would be interesting if another novel virus came along in the near distant future. How would that play out?

H1N5. Plenty dangerous, just not meaningfully able to infect humans at present. Flu viruses are known for their ability to mutate. With an animal host it's all but impossible to stop.

I think a lot of people miss how much worse covid could have been if a few things were different. For example, if a vaccine hadn't come along, or if people didn't restrict movements, wear masks...if the virus mutated into more virulent strains...if it had even a slightly higher mortality rate. A lot of people were extremely critical of a cautionary approach and even feel vindicated in that view even though millions died and a life saving vaccine became available within a year. Masks saved lives, social distancing saved lives.

Actually, I don't think the lockdown saved all that many lives--the compliance was too poor.

And just think what would have happened if it had had the lethality of SARS? Or, even worse, MERS. The former had an R0 low enough that containment was possible. The latter has an R0 well below 1. Omicron infectivity + MERS lethality, I would expect collapse.

What happens when another one (it's just a matter of time) comes along? Will people say we over-reacted during Covid and we shouldn't take as many precautions? Last time around, very few seemed to understand that there were a lot of unknowns early on and it could have been much worse. The hit the economy took was a mere speedbump compared to the devastation that could have happened even if the mortality rate was a few percent higher. Ebola is 25% to 90%. Imagine something like that coming down the pipe with higher virulence meeting an unwilling population?

Something like that would take us out unless there was an adequate way to shield against it that could be deployed fast enough.

With something that lethal there will be too many holes poked in the supply chain. It will fall apart and very few people are in a position to survive if that happens.

My thoughts is that the first thing we should be doing in the "before times" before that monster gets into humans is vaccinating.

There are many other things we should be doing too, but I think one of the big things is to gear up vaccine production and getting those to humans, even if the ones we have won't be fully effective after a zoonotic jump.

 

[ZiprHead]

So what is the conclusion. Should Fauci be in prison or did RVonse fall for another right wing BS story?