Federal troops helping suppress protests in Portland OR

[Testy Calibrate]

WRT Portland, I know that there’ve been continued confrontations between the federal “troops” and protesters, but I heard that DHS acknowledged that their officers did not have sufficient training on making arrests. So have they at least stopped the snatch and grab technique? Or is that still going on?

From my limited observation, it appears that they were acting like border agents typically do. They find illegal immigrants and immediately detain them. But I wonder if someone high up in DHS approved such policies.

there's been several snatch and grabs every night.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

Only after the fact? So, in every case when a cop is called, there is a potential situation requiring violence? That sure sounds wrong. And biased

One has to be pretty stupid after so many facts, not to see what's coming from the beginning of the 10,000th similar incident.

Exactly.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you being serious? You don't think there are plenty of clear cases where cops are not necessary?

Monday morning quarterback again.

We often don't know the whole story when the call comes in.

What the fuck is wrong with your brain? Those would be cases where police were in fact warranted. You are unequivocally stating that in every single with no exceptions case that police are sent to a call that there is no way to ever tell if the situation might turn life threatening. I really can't honor that with anything but saying that is something only an idiot would say.

The calls you are trying to divert are high risk calls, not low risk.

The situation is just as uncertain every time you get behind the wheel or cross the street.

And 99% of the time a very minimally trained driver could drive down the street fine. We insist on more than that because that guy wouldn't have any idea what to do if there was a problem.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And people always tell the truth when calling the police??

Sorry, but when it's mental health they often do not--they're in denial about how bad the situation is. They also deliberately downplay the problem at times to try to keep the police from using force.

This level of stupidity is simply pathethic

You're still showing you don't have any understanding of the actual situation. Families won't tell the truth about the mentally ill family member that's trying to kill them and is liable to turn on the cops when they show up.

 

[Gun Nut]

And people always tell the truth when calling the police??

Sorry, but when it's mental health they often do not--they're in denial about how bad the situation is. They also deliberately downplay the problem at times to try to keep the police from using force.

This level of stupidity is simply pathethic

You're still showing you don't have any understanding of the actual situation. Families won't tell the truth about the mentally ill family member that's trying to kill them and is liable to turn on the cops when they show up.

I see no relevance in this. Tell me, is every single call to 911 a complete lie? no? then no problem with this. See how that works? Your troll-like attempt to divide using "all or nothing" extremity is old and obvious. I think new trolling tactics will be needed to fool the droolers again.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

What the fuck is wrong with your brain? Those would be cases where police were in fact warranted. You are unequivocally stating that in every single with no exceptions case that police are sent to a call that there is no way to ever tell if the situation might turn life threatening. I really can't honor that with anything but saying that is something only an idiot would say.

The calls you are trying to divert are high risk calls, not low risk.

This is an example of making shit up and then believing it. Please quote me where I've said which calls I'm trying to divert. It is not a goose chase, I've been explicit.

The situation is just as uncertain every time you get behind the wheel or cross the street.

And 99% of the time a very minimally trained driver could drive down the street fine. We insist on more than that because that guy wouldn't have any idea what to do if there was a problem.

How can you not understand what you are saying here? Just how?

You are saying there is minimal necessary training for various tasks but then equivocating to compare those tasks with the extreme outlier situations. Why do you think it is not required that all drivers have Nascar experience in order to use the roads?

 

[Testy Calibrate]

And people always tell the truth when calling the police??

Sorry, but when it's mental health they often do not--they're in denial about how bad the situation is. They also deliberately downplay the problem at times to try to keep the police from using force.

This level of stupidity is simply pathethic

You're still showing you don't have any understanding of the actual situation. Families won't tell the truth about the mentally ill family member that's trying to kill them and is liable to turn on the cops when they show up.

oddly enough, I actually have quite in depth experience with our 911 center and the emergency response system in Portland. But it absolutely does not require anything more than simple thinking to figure out that there are a lot of calls to 911 that do not require military responses.

And, as I have repeatedly said, I don't see defunding as really addressing the issue anyway. Without criminal accountability at the state level for officers, that means defining some behaviors as criminal and having independent prosecutors handling those cases, i just see defunding creating a smaller group of fascists doing their fashy thing.

Until it is a criminal act for cops to plant evidence, falsify reports, threaten or engage in violence with citizens who are not themselves being violent, or lie to cover the actions of another officer, the problem remains.

 

[Elixir]

Okay, this was about El Cheato sending his goons into cities. Finally, someone is calling his bluff - appropriately, in Philadelphia:

Philadelphia's Top Prosecutor Is Prepared to Arrest Federal Agents

BRING IT!!
I hope this happens. Yeah, there will likely be violence but it will bring this whole fascist charade to a head for a hopefully quick resolution one way or another.

“My dad volunteered and served in World War II to fight fascism, like most of my uncles, so we would not have an American president brutalizing and kidnapping Americans for exercising their constitutional rights and trying to make America a better place, which is what patriots do,” said Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner in a statement. “Anyone, including federal law enforcement, who unlawfully assaults and kidnaps people will face criminal charges from my office.”

I can sympathize. My own Dad fought in three wars, starting with WWI.

 

[ZiprHead]

Okay, this was about El Cheato sending his goons into cities. Finally, someone is calling his bluff - appropriately, in Philadelphia:

Philadelphia's Top Prosecutor Is Prepared to Arrest Federal Agents

BRING IT!!
I hope this happens. Yeah, there will likely be violence but it will bring this whole fascist charade to a head for a hopefully quick resolution one way or another.

“My dad volunteered and served in World War II to fight fascism, like most of my uncles, so we would not have an American president brutalizing and kidnapping Americans for exercising their constitutional rights and trying to make America a better place, which is what patriots do,” said Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner in a statement. “Anyone, including federal law enforcement, who unlawfully assaults and kidnaps people will face criminal charges from my office.”

I can sympathize. My own Dad fought in three wars, starting with WWI.

I was wondering when exactly this would happen. As I understand it, these Trump forces have no jurisdiction off of federal property.

 

[skepticalbip]

Okay, this was about El Cheato sending his goons into cities. Finally, someone is calling his bluff - appropriately, in Philadelphia:

Philadelphia's Top Prosecutor Is Prepared to Arrest Federal Agents

BRING IT!!
I hope this happens. Yeah, there will likely be violence but it will bring this whole fascist charade to a head for a hopefully quick resolution one way or another.

“My dad volunteered and served in World War II to fight fascism, like most of my uncles, so we would not have an American president brutalizing and kidnapping Americans for exercising their constitutional rights and trying to make America a better place, which is what patriots do,” said Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner in a statement. “Anyone, including federal law enforcement, who unlawfully assaults and kidnaps people will face criminal charges from my office.”

I can sympathize. My own Dad fought in three wars, starting with WWI.

I was wondering when exactly this would happen. As I understand it, these Trump forces have no jurisdiction off of federal property.

Maybe they do. There has been a precedent set. Eisenhower sent army troops into several cities to enforce integration that southern democrat governors, mayors, and politicians (George Wallace, Bull Connor, etc.) refused to enforce.

 

[ZiprHead]

I was wondering when exactly this would happen. As I understand it, these Trump forces have no jurisdiction off of federal property.

Maybe they do. There has been a precedent set. Eisenhower sent army troops into several cities to enforce integration that southern democrat governors, mayors, and politicians (George Wallace, Bull Connor, etc.) refused to enforce.

These are CPB and Immigration officers. They are only allowed to operate within 100 miles of the border or on federal property.

And Eisenhower's action would probably not have passed court muster.

 

[lpetrich]

Nice speeches by Oregon Senators Jeff Merkley and Ron Wyden: LIVE: Merkley demands an end to secret police / Twitter -- Federal troops in American cities, unmarked, without any explanation of what they are doing. One of these two Senators asked why the Trump Admin isn't pursuing the coronavirus with that sort of zeal.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I was wondering when exactly this would happen. As I understand it, these Trump forces have no jurisdiction off of federal property.

Maybe they do. There has been a precedent set. Eisenhower sent army troops into several cities to enforce integration that southern democrat governors, mayors, and politicians (George Wallace, Bull Connor, etc.) refused to enforce.

It isn't that simple because the Feds abide by Federal law, not state law. They are throwing darts at different dart boards. It is also grossly exaggerating the conditions on the ground. This is slowly going 1984 as the Trump Admin wants us to believe what they are saying is happening.

Everything in Chicago and Portland and Seattle isn't Mary Fucking Poppins, but it certainly isn't a "beautiful world war" either. Trump is enacting Federal intervention very very early... where as intervention against the Pandemic has been fleeting, disorganized, etc...

 

[KeepTalking]

Okay, this was about El Cheato sending his goons into cities. Finally, someone is calling his bluff - appropriately, in Philadelphia:

Philadelphia's Top Prosecutor Is Prepared to Arrest Federal Agents

BRING IT!!
I hope this happens. Yeah, there will likely be violence but it will bring this whole fascist charade to a head for a hopefully quick resolution one way or another.

“My dad volunteered and served in World War II to fight fascism, like most of my uncles, so we would not have an American president brutalizing and kidnapping Americans for exercising their constitutional rights and trying to make America a better place, which is what patriots do,” said Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner in a statement. “Anyone, including federal law enforcement, who unlawfully assaults and kidnaps people will face criminal charges from my office.”

I can sympathize. My own Dad fought in three wars, starting with WWI.

I have been waiting for something like this to happen. I'm not sure why it hasn't happened in Portland yet. Trump is pushing, it is time to shove back.

 

[ZiprHead]

Duplicate threads merged.

 

[ZiprHead]

Portland mayor tear gassed alongside protesters

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler was hit with tear gas as he joined a crowd of protesters who gathered outside a federal courthouse, as tensions persisted in the city in response to the Trump administration's deployment of federal officers. "This is not a de-escalation strategy. This is flat-out urban warfare. And it's being wrought on the people of this country by the president of the United States and it's got to stop."

 

[Gun Nut]

WRT Portland, I know that there’ve been continued confrontations between the federal “troops” and protesters, but I heard that DHS acknowledged that their officers did not have sufficient training on making arrests. So have they at least stopped the snatch and grab technique? Or is that still going on?

From my limited observation, it appears that they were acting like border agents typically do. They find illegal immigrants and immediately detain them. But I wonder if someone high up in DHS approved such policies.

there's been several snatch and grabs every night.

It's "SMASH and grab"... not "Snatch and grab".. snatching and grabbing is redundant.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Yoga pants

Carrying signs like “Feds stay clear. Moms are here,” and “I’m so disappointed in you - mom,” the Oregon women have been shoved and tear-gassed by agents. Some dads have joined too, bringing leaf blowers to blow away tear gas.

Still, some activists such as E. Gomez have broken away from the moms, frustrated by what she calls “boomer-aged white women and men” who do not listen to concerns that they are drowning out the voices of people of color.
“It’s quickly turning into a #wallofkarens. It’s feeling like a lot of optics and photo ops to make these white women feel better about themselves,” said Gomez, using a pejorative term to describe entitled, middle-aged white women.

So wrong.

Luna Jane, 27, a Black mother, is glad to have moms creating what she believes is a safer environment that has encouraged more protesters to come onto the streets.
“If I have to get hurt or even lose my life in that process, I will do so.”

 

[skepticalbip]

I was wondering when exactly this would happen. As I understand it, these Trump forces have no jurisdiction off of federal property.

Maybe they do. There has been a precedent set. Eisenhower sent army troops into several cities to enforce integration that southern democrat governors, mayors, and politicians (George Wallace, Bull Connor, etc.) refused to enforce.

These are CPB and Immigration officers. They are only allowed to operate within 100 miles of the border or on federal property.

As I understand, there are enforcement officers from several other departments being sent too; FBI, ATF, homeland security, etc.

And Eisenhower's action would probably not have passed court muster.

If I recall correctly, Eisenhower used the same authority Trump has cited, the insurrection act. Under Eisenhower the state officials agreed with the mob who were threatening the black children and their families so refused to protect them from the mob. He sent troops in to protect those citizens the state refused to protect and to detain and charge any of the mob that attempted to harm them. Under Trump, local governments agree with the mob and refuse to protect those citizens who's shops are being looted and/or burned, Shop owners and workers who are being assaulted and sometimes beaten and/or killed.

I guess the question is, if the state refuses to protect citizens from mobs does the federal government have cause to protect them. Apparently the insurrection act can be interpreted and argued to say they do.

 

[Testy Calibrate]

And people always tell the truth when calling the police??

Sorry, but when it's mental health they often do not--they're in denial about how bad the situation is. They also deliberately downplay the problem at times to try to keep the police from using force.

This level of stupidity is simply pathethic

You're still showing you don't have any understanding of the actual situation. Families won't tell the truth about the mentally ill family member that's trying to kill them and is liable to turn on the cops when they show up.

You misspoke their. What you mean is "You're still showing you don't have any understanding of my imagination of the actual situation".

Why do you think your imagination of the situation is more correct than mine again?