Feminism ruins everything: Underarmor edition

[Derec]

Under Armour employees no longer allowed to expense strip club visits

 

[Tom Sawyer]

OK, but what happens if you just want to take a client out for a burger and it just so happens that the best burgers in the area are at a strip club and those burgers cost $1000 each? Is that still a valid expense since you're only paying for lunch and the fact that there are strippers hanging out in the place where you're eating is incidental?

 

[Jarhyn]

Under Armour employees no longer allowed to expense strip club visits

So, when it is an employer who pays their employees shit wages, that is the employer's right, but when it is the employer doing their best to prevent a hostile work environment, it what? Isn't their right anymore? Be consistent or be silent.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I must live an uncommon (underprivileged?) life, because I can't think of any part of it that is ruined because there are social pressures that exist that insist I treat women with respect.

 

[Bronzeage]

Yes, everything is ruined. How can we go on?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes, everything is ruined. How can we go on?

Weirdly, this is the exact conversation I had the last time I was at a strip club. She was grinding really hard during the lap dance.

 

[Derec]

So, when it is an employer who pays their employees shit wages, that is the employer's right, but when it is the employer doing their best to prevent a hostile work environment, it what? Isn't their right anymore? Be consistent or be silent.

How is an employee taking a client to a strip club a "hostile work environment" exactly? That's the big problem with feminism - they want everybody else to get rid of everything that offends them. If puritanism is "the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy" (H.L. Mencken), then feminism is surely "the haunting fear that some man, somewhere, may be having a good time".

 

[Derec]

I must live an uncommon (underprivileged?) life, because I can't think of any part of it that is ruined because there are social pressures that exist that insist I treat women with respect.

What does this have to do with "respect"? It's about showing clients a good time. And if a female employee wants to take a female athlete to Swinging Richard's or something, there is nothing wrong with that either. It is certainly not "disrespectful" toward male employees of the company.

Feminism is getting more prudish than the Christians lately. Probably why they get along with Islamists so well...

 

[southernhybrid]

So, the only way to entertain a client is be taking him to a strip show? Wow. Those poor men. They are so deprived.

Now men will have to pay for this entertainment all by themselves. With all of the problems and suffering in the world, this really does ruin everything.

 

[starwater]

Under Armour employees no longer allowed to expense strip club visits

 

[Jarhyn]

So, when it is an employer who pays their employees shit wages, that is the employer's right, but when it is the employer doing their best to prevent a hostile work environment, it what? Isn't their right anymore? Be consistent or be silent.

How is an employee taking a client to a strip club a "hostile work environment" exactly? That's the big problem with feminism - they want everybody else to get rid of everything that offends them. If puritanism is "the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy" (H.L. Mencken), then feminism is surely "the haunting fear that some man, somewhere, may be having a good time".

Two employees are workers at Company Z. Bob finds sex and nudity gross and disgusting. Tom, Bob's coworker, enjoys strip clubs. Tom decides that while he is out with Bob on a visit to an account, to suggest to Phil, their client, that their company will allow an expense on the strip club, and Phil is of a sort who thinks that is just fine. Now, bob is in a hostile setting: he will have to either object to this, damaging the relationship with the client and exposing his sexuality (which is often mocked or questioned), or be quiet and just suffer. What can be fairly certain is that if he brings an objection, he probably won't be invited on any more client engagements.

Of course, Bob could just as easily be Carla, who was raped or groped or otherwise assaulted while she herself was working her way through college in a strip club herself. Or it could be Gay Al. Or Trans Carl, who nobody even knows as trans because his parents helped him shed his deadname in high school and got him T before his breasts would have started in the first place, but who doesn't want to see tits because it makes him think back to the people, his old friends, who weren't as supportive as his family.

But most notably, none of these people who such a policy as allowing expensed strip club visits creates a hostile work environment for want to bring their private lives into their professional lives, nor should they have to, simply to avoid being put in uncomfortable situations that are otherwise 100% avoidable.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, when it is an employer who pays their employees shit wages, that is the employer's right, but when it is the employer doing their best to prevent a hostile work environment, it what? Isn't their right anymore? Be consistent or be silent.

How is an employee taking a client to a strip club a "hostile work environment" exactly? That's the big problem with feminism - they want everybody else to get rid of everything that offends them.

No, they don't think it is appropriate for the company to pick up the tab for a strip club visit. This is not exactly unique. I'm willing to bet that most companies in the US won't allow the expensing of strip club visits. I can only imagine the DOT audit conversation to justify that overhead expense.

DOT - About 3% of your overhead costs are to strip clubs. You can't use that in determining your corporate overhead rate for DOT work.
Derec the Accountant - God damn feminists!

If puritanism is "the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy" (H.L. Mencken), then feminism is surely "the haunting fear that some man, somewhere, may be having a good time".

You seem to be confusing your company paying for you to go to a strip club with people going to a strip club.

 

[laughing dog]

Under Armour employees no longer allowed to expense strip club visits

According to the linked article, women employees at Under Armour found the practice demeaning. While I am no expert on women and their views, I am pretty sure that most women have found the idea of strip clubs to be distasteful for decades before feminism took hold.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So, when it is an employer who pays their employees shit wages, that is the employer's right, but when it is the employer doing their best to prevent a hostile work environment, it what? Isn't their right anymore? Be consistent or be silent.

How is an employee taking a client to a strip club a "hostile work environment" exactly? That's the big problem with feminism - they want everybody else to get rid of everything that offends them. If puritanism is "the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy" (H.L. Mencken), then feminism is surely "the haunting fear that some man, somewhere, may be having a good time".

Two employees are workers at Company Z. Bob finds sex and nudity gross and disgusting. Tom, Bob's coworker, enjoys strip clubs. Tom decides that while he is out with Bob on a visit to an account, to suggest to Phil, their client, that their company will allow an expense on the strip club, and Phil is of a sort who thinks that is just fine. Now, bob is in a hostile setting: he will have to either object to this, damaging the relationship with the client and exposing his sexuality (which is often mocked or questioned), or be quiet and just suffer. What can be fairly certain is that if he brings an objection, he probably won't be invited on any more client engagements.

Of course, Bob could just as easily be Carla, who was raped or groped or otherwise assaulted while she herself was working her way through college in a strip club herself. Or it could be Gay Al. Or Trans Carl, who nobody even knows as trans because his parents helped him shed his deadname in high school and got him T before his breasts would have started in the first place, but who doesn't want to see tits because it makes him think back to the people, his old friends, who weren't as supportive as his family.

But most notably, none of these people who such a policy as allowing expensed strip club visits creates a hostile work environment for want to bring their private lives into their professional lives, nor should they have to, simply to avoid being put in uncomfortable situations that are otherwise 100% avoidable.

But where's the line? If Bob's an alcoholic and Tom suggests they take Phil out for drinks, does that make it a hostile work environment because he has to be quiet and suffer or object and damage the relationship with the client? If Bob passionately believes that meat is murder and Tom suggests they take Phil out for a steak dinner, does that make it a hostile work environment because he has to be quiet and suffer or object and damage the relationship with the client? If Bob has PTSD from his time in Afghanistan and Tom suggests they take Phil out to play paintball, does that make it a hostile work environment because he has to be quiet and suffer or object and damage the relationship with the client?

Not everybody is going to want to join in on every activity. If strip clubs are legal businesses, they should be treated the same as any other legal business.

 

[Keith&Co.]

How is an employee taking a client to a strip club a "hostile work environment" exactly?

Probably because clients came to expect their vendors to provide nsked women.
So if a woman or a man who didn't particularly like strip clubs tok over an account, they had difficulties keeping it, with competing with the salesmen using strip clubs.
Also, i wonder how many clients assumed the females who DID take them there were lesbians? Or treated the female salestaff like strippers themselves? Jokingly or in earnest?

If we have taught our clients to expect cigarettes when they come to our business, it makes difficulties for nonsmoking staff.
If we have always taken them out drinking like Shriners at a convention, then it may burden teatotaller staff.

It's not an attempt to outlaw strip clubs.
It's not even preventing employees from going, not like Ford employees in an English factory having to observe Prohibition.
It is just not going to be a business practice anymore.

 

[Jarhyn]

Two employees are workers at Company Z. Bob finds sex and nudity gross and disgusting. Tom, Bob's coworker, enjoys strip clubs. Tom decides that while he is out with Bob on a visit to an account, to suggest to Phil, their client, that their company will allow an expense on the strip club, and Phil is of a sort who thinks that is just fine. Now, bob is in a hostile setting: he will have to either object to this, damaging the relationship with the client and exposing his sexuality (which is often mocked or questioned), or be quiet and just suffer. What can be fairly certain is that if he brings an objection, he probably won't be invited on any more client engagements.

Of course, Bob could just as easily be Carla, who was raped or groped or otherwise assaulted while she herself was working her way through college in a strip club herself. Or it could be Gay Al. Or Trans Carl, who nobody even knows as trans because his parents helped him shed his deadname in high school and got him T before his breasts would have started in the first place, but who doesn't want to see tits because it makes him think back to the people, his old friends, who weren't as supportive as his family.

But most notably, none of these people who such a policy as allowing expensed strip club visits creates a hostile work environment for want to bring their private lives into their professional lives, nor should they have to, simply to avoid being put in uncomfortable situations that are otherwise 100% avoidable.

But where's the line? If Bob's an alcoholic and Tom suggests they take Phil out for drinks, does that make it a hostile work environment because he has to be quiet and suffer or object and damage the relationship with the client? If Bob passionately believes that meat is murder and Tom suggests they take Phil out for a steak dinner, does that make it a hostile work environment because he has to be quiet and suffer or object and damage the relationship with the client? If Bob has PTSD from his time in Afghanistan and Tom suggests they take Phil out to play paintball, does that make it a hostile work environment because he has to be quiet and suffer or object and damage the relationship with the client?

Not everybody is going to want to join in on every activity. If strip clubs are legal businesses, they should be treated the same as any other legal business.

All I see here is a good argument against allowing the expenseing of drug consumption (alcohol). When it comes to meat/vegan Ian, this isn't something likely to be kept personal in the first place (it would certainly have come up in the break room, when he turns down meat). But if he believes that "Meat is Murder", I suspect that Bob himself would be contributing to a "hostile work environment", on some level; though even so, a LOT of places have vegan options now.

And if he has PTSD, I could imagine that it wouldn't be particularly "hostile" to explain that "I don't mix very well with guns and shooting and war games ever since my military service" and leave it at that.

It is particularly when group activities involving drugs and sex get dragged into the mix that the private madness we each experience gets dragged into the public, especially when these are things we reserve for only those we decide to love.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

All I see here is a good argument against allowing the expenseing of drug consumption (alcohol). When it comes to meat/vegan Ian, this isn't something likely to be kept personal in the first place (it would certainly have come up in the break room, when he turns down meat). But if he believes that "Meat is Murder", I suspect that Bob himself would be contributing to a "hostile work environment", on some level; though even so, a LOT of places have vegan options now.

And if he has PTSD, I could imagine that it wouldn't be particularly "hostile" to explain that "I don't mix very well with guns and shooting and war games ever since my military service" and leave it at that.

It is particularly when group activities involving drugs and sex get dragged into the mix that the private madness we each experience gets dragged into the public, especially when these are things we reserve for only those we decide to love.

Well, that's very white of you to mansplain what is or isn't appropriate for people to get offended about. Thank you for taking on that burden.

If Bob keeps his veganism and attitudes about the genocides perpetrated by the meat industry to himself and doesn't feel that they're appropriate topics for work and doesn't want to isolate himself from others at the office by bringing it up, but is then sitting there trying to figure out what to say when Tom blurts out at the end of a meeting with Phil that they should all go out to a local steakhouse to finalize the deal, why is that fundamentally different than if Bob was keeping his attitudes about nudity and sex to himself for the same reasons and is then sitting there trying to figure out what to say when Tom blurts out that they should finalize the deal at a local strip club?

Why would it fall upon Bob to bring up the personal issues of his PTSD in a work environment but fall upon everyone else to not have him need to bring up the personal issues of his distaste for sexuality in a work environment?

 

[Toni]

I must live an uncommon (underprivileged?) life, because I can't think of any part of it that is ruined because there are social pressures that exist that insist I treat women with respect.

What does this have to do with "respect"? It's about showing clients a good time. And if a female employee wants to take a female athlete to Swinging Richard's or something, there is nothing wrong with that either. It is certainly not "disrespectful" toward male employees of the company.

Feminism is getting more prudish than the Christians lately. Probably why they get along with Islamists so well...

Does it even occur to you that Under Armour might employ women? Or that clients might be female? Or that any woman might find a strip club to be a hostile work environment? Including those who work in strip clubs? Does it occur to you at all that women exist for any reason than to service men?

Of course not.

Consider then if the world were different and women expected men to strip for them, provide erotic services—only the ones we consider attractive enough, of course. The rest of you can cook and clean and do grunt work—how would you feel?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I remember being upset when I found out higher ups at my company got to expense college football season tickets.

 

[starwater]

How is an employee taking a client to a strip club a "hostile work environment" exactly?

Probably because clients came to expect their vendors to provide nsked women.
So if a woman or a man who didn't particularly like strip clubs tok over an account, they had difficulties keeping it, with competing with the salesmen using strip clubs.
Also, i wonder how many clients assumed the females who DID take them there were lesbians? Or treated the female salestaff like strippers themselves? Jokingly or in earnest?

If we have taught our clients to expect cigarettes when they come to our business, it makes difficulties for nonsmoking staff.
If we have always taken them out drinking like Shriners at a convention, then it may burden teatotaller staff.

It's not an attempt to outlaw strip clubs.
It's not even preventing employees from going, not like Ford employees in an English factory having to observe Prohibition.
It is just not going to be a business practice anymore.

If your clients are "expecting" this what does it say about you and your company? Personally I don't have those types of clients.

- - - Updated - - -

I must live an uncommon (underprivileged?) life, because I can't think of any part of it that is ruined because there are social pressures that exist that insist I treat women with respect.

What does this have to do with "respect"? It's about showing clients a good time. And if a female employee wants to take a female athlete to Swinging Richard's or something, there is nothing wrong with that either. It is certainly not "disrespectful" toward male employees of the company.

Feminism is getting more prudish than the Christians lately. Probably why they get along with Islamists so well...

Does it even occur to you that Under Armour might employ women? Or that clients might be female? Or that any woman might find a strip club to be a hostile work environment? Including those who work in strip clubs? Does it occur to you at all that women exist for any reason than to service men?

Of course not.

Consider then if the world were different and women expected men to strip for them, provide erotic services—only the ones we consider attractive enough, of course. The rest of you can cook and clean and do grunt work—how would you feel?

Thanks for trying Toni.