Ferguson Live Feed

[Derec]

No, he had a gun and pursued an unarmed person who had just committed a serious crime. On its face it seems a reasonable thing for a cop to do.

So the Officer knew the person was unarmed and shot him from a notable distance?

Where do you get "notable distance"?

 

[Derec]

Apparently the store robbed by Michael Brown was looted last night.

I am sure the looters thought the whole thing was the store owners fault more than it was the "gentle giant's".

 

[dismal]

Ferguson tragedy becoming a farce

One might give McCulloch the benefit of the doubt, if not for his background. His father was a police officer killed in a shootout with a black suspect, and several of his family members are, or were, police officers. His 23-year record on the job reveals scant interest in prosecuting such cases. During his tenure, there have been at least a dozen fatal shootings by police in his jurisdiction (the roughly 90 municipalities in the county other than St. Louis itself), and probably many more than that, but McCulloch’s office has not prosecuted a single police shooting in all those years. At least four times he presented evidence to a grand jury but — wouldn’t you know it? — didn’t get an indictment.

One of the four: A 2000 case in which a grand jury declined to indict two police officers who had shot two unarmed black men 21 times while they sat in their car behind a Jack in the Box fast-food restaurant. It was a botched drug arrest, and one of the two men killed hadn’t even been a suspect. McCulloch at the time said he agreed with the grand jury’s decision, dismissing complaints of the handling of the case by saying the dead men “were bums.” He refused to release surveillance tapes of the shooting. When those tapes were later released as part of a federal probe, it was discovered that, contrary to what police alleged, the car had not moved before the police began shooting.

jesus christ

If you don't have the evidence I guess you go after the people.

It odd to see the demonization of mcculloch for gathering and presenting facts. Or maybe people just hate him because he's a democrat. They're not very popular these days.

 

[fromderinside]

So the Officer knew the person was unarmed and shot him from a notable distance?

Where do you get "notable distance"?

So being 125 feet from Wilson's car at time of death after having retreated even further away after being shot several times isn't notable? Maybe it takes the distance from the one carrying the gun to Alpha Centauri to be notable for you, but, 125 feet seems pretty notable to me.

 

[fromderinside]

Ferguson tragedy becoming a farce



jesus christ

If you don't have the evidence I guess you go after the people.

It odd to see the demonization of mcculloch for gathering and presenting facts. Or maybe people just hate him because he's a democrat. They're not very popular these days.

So there is evidence Brown ran away. there is evidence that when Brown stopped and turned to face him that Wilson began shooting again.

Here is my problem with that. He had already defended himself against harm by shooting Brown at the car causing Brown to flee. Why not just monitor the situation until help arrives which had other instruments with which to subdue Brown? Yet when Brown turned to face Wilson opened fire again apparently causing Brown to retreat further. When Brown turned to face him at a greater distance he apparently saw Wilson raising his gun again and charged. Wilson had no need for lethal force after he had caused Brown to back off. IMHO

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ferguson tragedy becoming a farce



jesus christ

If you don't have the evidence I guess you go after the people.

It odd to see the demonization of mcculloch for gathering and presenting facts. Or maybe people just hate him because he's a democrat. They're not very popular these days.

The prosecutor was second guessing the witnesses they were calling. Is that typical? If you don't think the person you having as a witness is telling the truth, why have them take the stand? How often do defendants testify in a Grand Jury?

 

[Shadowy Man]

In this case "the bad guy" was running away. Wilson did not have to exit his vehicle at this point, and since he claimed he was afraid for his life he probably shouldn't have.

Here's something you may have missed: Wilson is a cop.

Attempting to wrestle a gun away from a cop is a very serious crime. Cops are paid to go after people who commit crimes not say "phew he's running away I guess I'm safe".

But he is using his mortal fear for the justification for the shooting. If he was so fearful for his life why did he pursue the man who instilled that fear? One would argue that if he pursued, he was no longer in fear of his imminent death. He could have followed in his car. He could have gotten out of the car and taken a defensible position behind the car. He could have called again for backup. There are many actions he could have taken...

 

[Axulus]

Where do you get "notable distance"?

So being 125 feet from Wilson's car at time of death after having retreated even further away after being shot several times isn't notable? Maybe it takes the distance from the one carrying the gun to Alpha Centauri to be notable for you, but, 125 feet seems pretty notable to me.

The shots weren't from a notable distance. Wilson pursued him from the car to try to arrest him. Just starting to go over the grand jury evidence now. This witnesses says Brown was "five to ten yards" when he was shot, after he began charging Wilson.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370930-interview-witness-10.html

- - - Updated - - -

No, he had a gun and pursued an unarmed person who had just committed a serious crime. On its face it seems a reasonable thing for a cop to do.

So the Officer knew the person was unarmed and shot him from a notable distance?

5 to 10 yards according to one witness is not "notable"

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, but we are still left with a cop who pursued a person who had just committed a serious crime, no?

So you concede my point, but then pretend you haven't. The Officer put himself into a needlessly risky situation in following the perpetrator of which, to his admission scared him. Pursuit could easily have restarted once backup arrived... to well... back him up.

He was attempting to get Brown to surrender. Brown chose to charge him instead and shots were fired once Brown was within 5 to 10 yards. Brown then turned away from the officer and then stopped firing. Brown then turned around and charged a second time, with more shots fired. This guy had a death wish it seems.

This is all according to witness #10

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370930-interview-witness-10.html

 

[Axulus]

Witness #30 - Brown was "maybe six or ten feet from the officer" when he was shot. His hands were not up as he was moving toward Wilson:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370941-interview-witness-30.html

 

[dismal]

If you don't have the evidence I guess you go after the people.

It odd to see the demonization of mcculloch for gathering and presenting facts. Or maybe people just hate him because he's a democrat. They're not very popular these days.

The prosecutor was second guessing the witnesses they were calling. Is that typical? If you don't think the person you having as a witness is telling the truth, why have them take the stand? How often do defendants testify in a Grand Jury?

Generally I would hope if all you had was a bunch of witnesses who a) did not agree with each other and b) did not agree with the physical evidence there would be no testifying because the prosecutor would exercise appropriate discretion.

But in this case the public demanded a spectacle.

 

[dismal]

Here's something you may have missed: Wilson is a cop.

Attempting to wrestle a gun away from a cop is a very serious crime. Cops are paid to go after people who commit crimes not say "phew he's running away I guess I'm safe".

But he is using his mortal fear for the justification for the shooting. If he was so fearful for his life why did he pursue the man who instilled that fear? One would argue that if he pursued, he was no longer in fear of his imminent death. He could have followed in his car. He could have gotten out of the car and taken a defensible position behind the car. He could have called again for backup. There are many actions he could have taken...

Again, you are arguing that a cop should not chase a suspect. This seems like a great stretch.

 

[Derec]

So being 125 feet from Wilson's car at time of death after having retreated even further away after being shot several times isn't notable? Maybe it takes the distance from the one carrying the gun to Alpha Centauri to be notable for you, but, 125 feet seems pretty notable to me.

Distance to the SUV is not important but the distance between Wilson and Brown.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He just had two shots fired inside his vehicle. There were only seconds that transpired from Brown moving away from the vehicle and then turning around and charging back toward it. In that kind of situation why would you expect him to think "maybe I should holster my gun and get out the mace" instead of "this guy is dangerous, I almost just got shot and could've died had those shots gone into me instead of in my vehicle, keep the gun pointed at him and fire if he comes at me again."

Even if he thought of it he wouldn't have done it. Mace is not effective against a crazed attacker even if you get a solid hit.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And the bad guy is just going to sit there waiting for backup to show up??

In this case "the bad guy" was running away. Wilson did not have to exit his vehicle at this point, and since he claimed he was afraid for his life he probably shouldn't have.

You forget, Wilson is a cop. Unlike a civilian he's not expected to let a bad guy go, but rather try to apprehend him. Following was the right thing to do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In this case "the bad guy" was running away. Wilson did not have to exit his vehicle at this point, and since he claimed he was afraid for his life he probably shouldn't have.

Here's something you may have missed: Wilson is a cop.

Attempting to wrestle a gun away from a cop is a very serious crime. Cops are paid to go after people who commit crimes not say "phew he's running away I guess I'm safe".

And this is the fundamental difference between civilian and cop in the use of force.

A civilian is in most cases expected to let the bad guy go and leave apprehending him to the cops. A cop is in general expected to attempt to apprehend him. The civilian that knowingly puts himself in a dangerous situation and then uses a gun is treading on some very thin ice. The cop in the same situation is still on granite.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So being 125 feet from Wilson's car at time of death after having retreated even further away after being shot several times isn't notable? Maybe it takes the distance from the one carrying the gun to Alpha Centauri to be notable for you, but, 125 feet seems pretty notable to me.

The shots weren't from a notable distance. Wilson pursued him from the car to try to arrest him. Just starting to go over the grand jury evidence now. This witnesses says Brown was "five to ten yards" when he was shot, after he began charging Wilson.

And the officer is certainly going to be shooting by the time the guy reaches 5 yards. Charge an armed man, cop or civilian, and you should expect to be shot.

 

[Derec]

McCulloch is s dam! lier!!

That's right up there with "get a brain morans".

 

[laughing dog]

McCulloch is s dam! lier!!

That's right up there with "get a brain morans".

In more than one dimension.

 

[Derec]

Just watching some rioters set a police car ablaze. I doubt any of them would get arrested which is a pity.

By the way, what happened to the newfangled sonic and microwave crowd control devices we've been hearing about for years. They would be perfect to field test on these protests

 

[Rhea]

I am sad that some people went to looting and fires. They have the nation's eye and the hearts of many. This doesn't help. I understand the feeling of helpless wrong, but this is not helping them. I hope the cooler heads in the community can bring them around or send them out of the public.