Firearms and home invasion/defence, split from Rants

[Jimmy Higgins]

We have a repeat offender criminal that keeps trying to break into our office.

The guy likely got into our place a few times before we noticed. Then one time he stole the petty cash and our pool car. We hadn't noticed he stole the pool car. We were kind of okay with the pool car getting stolen. Not the petty cash, but the pool car...

So, filed police report, blah blah. Breaks in again. He is like that robot on Futurama in the first season when Fry is locked up in a robot mental health institute. We get him on video breaking and fix some inadequacies to our entry. We are inside a building and in an isolated area, so at the right times of day, you can do a lot without being noticed.

At this point, we are satisfied that the tenet and our company have taken security seriously and think we are set. Then to have the alarms going off on the weekend, with the guy climbing up and over the door through the drop ceiling!

And just recently, he was caught trying to drill into our door, by luckily two large males who could manage themselves after he tried to strangle one of them. He wasn't armed.

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

 

[Gospel]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

Nah, all you need is a real goon in the office. I'm that goon. At my job people don't like my street mentality until situations like what Jimmy mentioned. Then all of a sudden they all crowd my desk talking about some shirtless dude sleeping by the mailbox. I just go out and say "yo yo yo you can't be out here bruh!" while tugging up at my belt and they usually say sorry and leave.

Edit: And if they really want a fight I got it all gift wrapped and ready to unpack.

 

[crazyfingers]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

Nah, all you need is a real goon in the office. I'm that goon. At my job people don't like my street mentality until situations like what Jimmy mentioned. Then all of a sudden they all crowd my desk talking about some shirtless dude sleeping by the mailbox. I just go out and say "yo yo yo you can't be out here bruh!" while tugging up at my belt and they usually say sorry and leave.

Edit: And if they really want a fight I got it all gift wrapped and ready to unpack.

I can't imagine you a goon.

 

[Gospel]

Oh Imma goon. One with honor, respect, self-respect, respect for others, respect for the law, respect for women, respect for everyone's rights even the rights of those who hate me with a passion.

Edit: But, I'm very happy to lay the smack down on candy ass where appropriate.

 

[bilby]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

 

[Toni]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

Only cowardly wannabe tough guys.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

Nah, all you need is a real goon in the office. I'm that goon. At my job people don't like my street mentality until situations like what Jimmy mentioned. Then all of a sudden they all crowd my desk talking about some shirtless dude sleeping by the mailbox. I just go out and say "yo yo yo you can't be out here bruh!" while tugging up at my belt and they usually say sorry and leave.

Edit: And if they really want a fight I got it all gift wrapped and ready to unpack.

If we were fully stocked ie not much of a pandemic and partial crewing, we have a couple ex-football players at one point or another in their lives. One of them is soft spoken and formidable, the other is soft spoken and very formidable, as in a Mack Truck. Way back, we had a state level amateur wrestler. But right place, right time (or wrong) sort of thing.

This person needs some level of help, the police are very familiar with him. But the system in the US doesn't help the mentally ill. Reagan helped see a big part of that and lower funding from states has been critical to killing budgeting for services for people that need it. The trouble with people with mental health issues is that they are a tad unpredictable.

Hopefully they don't come back. Hopefully they finally get whatever they need to become more functional. Hopefully no one gets hurt.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

Only cowardly wannabe tough guys.

The trouble with a firearm in this situation (excluding obvious moral issues), you pull the gun, you almost are going to have to use it. Pulling the gun means you have given up, because if he takes one step, you have to fire, because if he (The mentally ill person you just pulled a gun at) gets it....

So clearly, such an escalation, when other non-lethal avenues are available, seems short-sighted.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

The trouble with a firearm in this situation (excluding obvious moral issues), you pull the gun, you almost are going to have to use it. Pulling the gun means you have given up, because if he takes one step, you have to fire, because if he (The mentally ill person you just pulled a gun at) gets it....

So clearly, such an escalation, when other non-lethal avenues are available, seems short-sighted.

You've already said that you've reached a point where you can't protect your workers against a possibly lethal threat (attempting to strangle someone can easily be lethal even when the attacker didn't intend it to be--blood chokes are safe, airway chokes are decidedly unsafe and should be considered lethal force) and you say there are non-lethal options? Like what, abandoning the office?

The fact that he's mentally ill has nothing to do with this.

 

[atrib]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

And if that mentally ill person decided that you looked like the spawn of Satan, and he was going to send you back to Hell using the 4-inch knife he carries in his backpack, that concealed firearm may just save your life.

I think you do a disservice to all the people who carry firearms responsibly and in full conformance with the law by insinuating that every concealed weapons permit holder is out lusting for blood, and is unable to respond to a potentially threatening situation without drawing their gun. The gun is a last resort, to be used when there is an immediate threat to your life, or the life of someone in your vicinity, and you have no way to safely walk away from the threat without drawing the weapon.

 

[Toni]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

And if that mentally ill person decided that you looked like the spawn of Satan, and he was going to send you back to Hell using the 4-inch knife he carries in his backpack, that concealed firearm may just save your life.

I think you do a disservice to all the people who carry firearms responsibly and in full conformance with the law by insinuating that every concealed weapons permit holder is out lusting for blood, and is unable to respond to a potentially threatening situation without drawing their gun. The gun is a last resort, to be used when there is an immediate threat to your life, or the life of someone in your vicinity, and you have no way to safely walk away from the threat without drawing the weapon.

And this is so common? Crazy people deciding to kill you on the streets, using a concealed knife?

It’s a lot more common for there to be people like the McMasters family or Zimmerman, deciding that someone is a threat because??

Or people making a mistake and think they are shooting a deer only it’s a horse carrying a young girl.

I’ve dealt with my share of actual crazy people ( amateur diagnosis but …) one of whom was attacking someone else (no weapons but not a sure bet that he wasn’t armed—he was definitely crazy and hopped up on something). That’s not even counting the so called normal guys who were attacking girls/young women, sometimes me. That sort of thing is extremely common. Extremely. It’s not that often women decide to pull out guns to kill would be rapists.

What’s way too common is not the crazy guy with a 4 inch blade but the ‘perfectly normal’ crazies who walk around with guns and use them in crowds.

 

[bilby]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

And if that mentally ill person decided that you looked like the spawn of Satan, and he was going to send you back to Hell using the 4-inch knife he carries in his backpack, that concealed firearm may just save your life.

Sure.

And if he had a time machine, he could go back in time and kill your grandfather.

But meanwhile in reality, mentally ill people are far more at risk, than they are posing a risk.

The nutter who suddenly kills at random isn't a threat that's sufficiently common as to justify precautions against it - EVEN if you are already regularly interacting with a mentally ill person.

I think you do a disservice to all the people who carry firearms responsibly and in full conformance with the law by insinuating that every concealed weapons permit holder is out lusting for blood, and is unable to respond to a potentially threatening situation without drawing their gun.

I don't.

Mainly because I am insinuating no such thing.

That you assume such lurid beliefs on the part of people who haven't expressed them suggests strongly that you are not sufficiently stable as to be trusted with lethal weapons.

The gun is a last resort, to be used when there is an immediate threat to your life, or the life of someone in your vicinity, and you have no way to safely walk away from the threat without drawing the weapon.

Or, as those of us in the civilised world would put it, 'never'.

Almost nobody is ever in such a situation in the developed world. You might as well invest in a safe to store your winnings, just in case you win the lottery, as invest in a firearm, just in case you are in a position where the employment of lethal force is practically achievable, unavoidable, and essential to save lives.

It's something that only happens in fantasy (such as that routinely presented by Hollywood).

Real guns are not defensive devices.

I have no problem at all with guns for hunting; For sporting purposes such as target shooting; For warfare; Or even in extreme situations for law enforcement.

But the gun for self defence is a delusional fantasy, and a highly dangerous one at that.

 

[atrib]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

And if that mentally ill person decided that you looked like the spawn of Satan, and he was going to send you back to Hell using the 4-inch knife he carries in his backpack, that concealed firearm may just save your life.

Sure.

And if he had a time machine, he could go back in time and kill your grandfather.

Jimmy's original post stated that there was a real threat of someone in the office being assaulted by this mentally ill person, and that they had been unable to come up with a plan to keep the employees in the office safe. He actually said this twice (highlighted above), so he clearly believes the threat to be credible. The police have been apparently called in, and the person has been arrested multiple times, but he continues to be a threat. How does an office worker who has no training in dealing with a potentially violent, mentally ill person handle the situation if it does happen, following the scenario that Jimmy talks about? What if this mentally ill person is armed?

Such events are rare, but they do happen. I was robbed at gunpoint 31 years ago in Atlanta while walking back to my apartment from the GT campus. I wasn't hurt that day, but it could easily have turned out differently.

But meanwhile in reality, mentally ill people are far more at risk, than they are posing a risk.

The nutter who suddenly kills at random isn't a threat that's sufficiently common as to justify precautions against it - EVEN if you are already regularly interacting with a mentally ill person.

Its not just the mentally ill, there are also armed criminals. I think of my CWP as an insurance policy; I hope never to use it, but I have it just in case I do.

I think you do a disservice to all the people who carry firearms responsibly and in full conformance with the law by insinuating that every concealed weapons permit holder is out lusting for blood, and is unable to respond to a potentially threatening situation without drawing their gun.

I don't.

Mainly because I am insinuating no such thing.

That you assume such lurid beliefs on the part of people who haven't expressed them suggests strongly that you are not sufficiently stable as to be trusted with lethal weapons.

There you go again. Saying that people are mentally unstable because they pointed out that some adults have the emotional and intellectual maturity, as well as the appropriate training to allow themselves to legally carry firearms without being a threat to people around them.

The gun is a last resort, to be used when there is an immediate threat to your life, or the life of someone in your vicinity, and you have no way to safely walk away from the threat without drawing the weapon.

Or, as those of us in the civilised world would put it, 'never'.

Almost nobody is ever in such a situation in the developed world. You might as well invest in a safe to store your winnings, just in case you win the lottery, as invest in a firearm, just in case you are in a position where the employment of lethal force is practically achievable, unavoidable, and essential to save lives.

It's something that only happens in fantasy (such as that routinely presented by Hollywood).

Real guns are not defensive devices.

I have no problem at all with guns for hunting; For sporting purposes such as target shooting; For warfare; Or even in extreme situations for law enforcement.

But the gun for self defence is a delusional fantasy, and a highly dangerous one at that.

My life experiences over the past 55 years tell me otherwise. Come walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement.

Speaking of security, we had engaged the services of a crack security ninja cat to guard our home about 16 months ago. But as soon as the long-term employment contract was signed and the cat established in our home, said security ninja turned into a slacker who spends his days guarding his bed on the couch, or my lap. Such is life:

 

[bilby]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

And if that mentally ill person decided that you looked like the spawn of Satan, and he was going to send you back to Hell using the 4-inch knife he carries in his backpack, that concealed firearm may just save your life.

Sure.

And if he had a time machine, he could go back in time and kill your grandfather.

Jimmy's original post stated that there was a real threat of someone in the office being assaulted by this mentally ill person, and that they had been unable to come up with a plan to keep the employees in the office safe. He actually said this twice (highlighted above), so he clearly believes the threat to be credible. The police have been apparently called in, and the person has been arrested multiple times, but he continues to be a threat. How does an office worker who has no training in dealing with a potentially violent, mentally ill person handle the situation if it does happen, following the scenario that Jimmy talks about? What if this mentally ill person is armed?

Such events are rare, but they do happen. I was robbed at gunpoint 31 years ago in Atlanta while walking back to my apartment from the GT campus. I wasn't hurt that day, but it could easily have turned out differently.

But meanwhile in reality, mentally ill people are far more at risk, than they are posing a risk.

The nutter who suddenly kills at random isn't a threat that's sufficiently common as to justify precautions against it - EVEN if you are already regularly interacting with a mentally ill person.

Its not just the mentally ill, there are also armed criminals. I think of my CWP as an insurance policy; I hope never to use it, but I have it just in case I do.

I think you do a disservice to all the people who carry firearms responsibly and in full conformance with the law by insinuating that every concealed weapons permit holder is out lusting for blood, and is unable to respond to a potentially threatening situation without drawing their gun.

I don't.

Mainly because I am insinuating no such thing.

That you assume such lurid beliefs on the part of people who haven't expressed them suggests strongly that you are not sufficiently stable as to be trusted with lethal weapons.

There you go again. Saying that people are mentally unstable because they pointed out that some adults have the emotional and intellectual maturity, as well as the appropriate training to allow themselves to legally carry firearms without being a threat to people around them.

I never suggested that 'some adults' lacked that stability; Only that your statements suggested that you aren't one of them

The gun is a last resort, to be used when there is an immediate threat to your life, or the life of someone in your vicinity, and you have no way to safely walk away from the threat without drawing the weapon.

Or, as those of us in the civilised world would put it, 'never'.

Almost nobody is ever in such a situation in the developed world. You might as well invest in a safe to store your winnings, just in case you win the lottery, as invest in a firearm, just in case you are in a position where the employment of lethal force is practically achievable, unavoidable, and essential to save lives.

It's something that only happens in fantasy (such as that routinely presented by Hollywood).

Real guns are not defensive devices.

I have no problem at all with guns for hunting; For sporting purposes such as target shooting; For warfare; Or even in extreme situations for law enforcement.

But the gun for self defence is a delusional fantasy, and a highly dangerous one at that.

My life experiences over the past 55 years tell me otherwise. Come walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement.

No, I shall pass judgement just fine based on my own extensive and directly relevant experience, thanks all the same.

Speaking of security, we had engaged the services of a crack security ninja cat to guard our home about 16 months ago. But as soon as the long-term employment contract was signed and the cat established in our home, said security ninja turned into a slacker who spends his days guarding his bed on the couch, or my lap. Such is life:

View attachment 36653View attachment 36654

No matter how cute your cat is, it remains true that a gun isn't a defensive device.

I suspect that most Americans have little grasp of the meaning of the word 'defence'.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

And if that mentally ill person decided that you looked like the spawn of Satan, and he was going to send you back to Hell using the 4-inch knife he carries in his backpack, that concealed firearm may just save your life.

Sure.

And if he had a time machine, he could go back in time and kill your grandfather.

Jimmy's original post stated that there was a real threat of someone in the office being assaulted by this mentally ill person, and that they had been unable to come up with a plan to keep the employees in the office safe. He actually said this twice (highlighted above), so he clearly believes the threat to be credible. The police have been apparently called in, and the person has been arrested multiple times, but he continues to be a threat. How does an office worker who has no training in dealing with a potentially violent, mentally ill person handle the situation if it does happen, following the scenario that Jimmy talks about? What if this mentally ill person is armed?

Such events are rare, but they do happen. I was robbed at gunpoint 31 years ago in Atlanta while walking back to my apartment from the GT campus. I wasn't hurt that day, but it could easily have turned out differently.

But meanwhile in reality, mentally ill people are far more at risk, than they are posing a risk.

The nutter who suddenly kills at random isn't a threat that's sufficiently common as to justify precautions against it - EVEN if you are already regularly interacting with a mentally ill person.

Its not just the mentally ill, there are also armed criminals. I think of my CWP as an insurance policy; I hope never to use it, but I have it just in case I do.

The guy was seen walking around the building our office is in again. My company has changed policy again on access, which we were waiting for. This will make it pretty hard for him to get into our office again, without a bunch of brute force. I actually use an alternative entry which I think, for the moment is more secure.

Regarding concealed weapons, as I noted before, the trouble with a gun, and especially of our entry layout, there is virtually no room to move much. If the guy takes a couple step, gun is out and you have to shoot. And you can't draw the gun and leave the scene quickly to avoid an engagement. When you draw a gun, you are actually eliminating many of your options.

 

[Gospel]

I suspect that most Americans have little grasp of the meaning of the word 'defence'.

That depends on which of the multiverses your dictionary comes from. Judging by how you spell it you live on earth's surface somewhere so what's your excuse? "The action of defending from or resisting attack" can be anything from throwing water balloons at an attacker to blasting them with a bazooka.

Edit: It can also be turning tail and running (which I'm certain you're familiar with since you abandoned logic as often as possible).

 

[atrib]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

And if that mentally ill person decided that you looked like the spawn of Satan, and he was going to send you back to Hell using the 4-inch knife he carries in his backpack, that concealed firearm may just save your life.

Sure.

And if he had a time machine, he could go back in time and kill your grandfather.

Jimmy's original post stated that there was a real threat of someone in the office being assaulted by this mentally ill person, and that they had been unable to come up with a plan to keep the employees in the office safe. He actually said this twice (highlighted above), so he clearly believes the threat to be credible. The police have been apparently called in, and the person has been arrested multiple times, but he continues to be a threat. How does an office worker who has no training in dealing with a potentially violent, mentally ill person handle the situation if it does happen, following the scenario that Jimmy talks about? What if this mentally ill person is armed?

Such events are rare, but they do happen. I was robbed at gunpoint 31 years ago in Atlanta while walking back to my apartment from the GT campus. I wasn't hurt that day, but it could easily have turned out differently.

But meanwhile in reality, mentally ill people are far more at risk, than they are posing a risk.

The nutter who suddenly kills at random isn't a threat that's sufficiently common as to justify precautions against it - EVEN if you are already regularly interacting with a mentally ill person.

Its not just the mentally ill, there are also armed criminals. I think of my CWP as an insurance policy; I hope never to use it, but I have it just in case I do.

The guy was seen walking around the building our office is in again. My company has changed policy again on access, which we were waiting for. This will make it pretty hard for him to get into our office again, without a bunch of brute force. I actually use an alternative entry which I think, for the moment is more secure.

You have to bring it up with the office leadership and ask them to resolve it. Your employer cannot reasonably expect people to show up for work when there is a credible threat to the safety of the people in the office.

Has this person been given a formal trespass notice by anyone in your workplace? If not, you need to this the next time he shows up, and do this with the police present. If yes, the police can arrest him for criminal trespass the next time he shows up, and he would likely be looking at either jail time or some period of incarceration in a mental health facility. Its a temporary solution, but you have to do everything you can to get all your ducks lined up.

Regarding concealed weapons, as I noted before, the trouble with a gun, and especially of our entry layout, there is virtually no room to move much. If the guy takes a couple step, gun is out and you have to shoot. And you can't draw the gun and leave the scene quickly to avoid an engagement. When you draw a gun, you are actually eliminating many of your options.

Guns are a last resort, and an option only for those people who have been trained in all the safety and legal protocols and successfully completed a concealed weapons certification class which is required by many/most states, and for situations where a gun might be used to defend yourself/somebody else without putting other people in harm's way. Your employer likely has a policy that forbids employees from carrying guns into the office, which makes the point moot.

 

[atrib]

This guy has been arrested... a lot. Clearly seems to have mental health complications... and there seems that there is little to be done to keep him from assaulting someone at our office if he comes back during the day. Generally, he has been a weekend guy. We aren't certain why he keeps coming to our place. We don't have much of value in our office... and he has yet to steal that flat panel tv that has been sitting in our office for a few years now. But we have reached a point where we feel, there isn't much we can do to protect our workers, other than hope we don't cross paths.

This is the sort of situation that makes people carry concealed firearms.

This is the sort of response that makes the rest of the world think that Americans are fucking insane.

What kind of person looks at that scenario and thinks "if only it were easier to rapidly escalate any confrontation so as to kill the mentally ill person, the situation would be so much better"?

And if that mentally ill person decided that you looked like the spawn of Satan, and he was going to send you back to Hell using the 4-inch knife he carries in his backpack, that concealed firearm may just save your life.

Sure.

And if he had a time machine, he could go back in time and kill your grandfather.

Jimmy's original post stated that there was a real threat of someone in the office being assaulted by this mentally ill person, and that they had been unable to come up with a plan to keep the employees in the office safe. He actually said this twice (highlighted above), so he clearly believes the threat to be credible. The police have been apparently called in, and the person has been arrested multiple times, but he continues to be a threat. How does an office worker who has no training in dealing with a potentially violent, mentally ill person handle the situation if it does happen, following the scenario that Jimmy talks about? What if this mentally ill person is armed?

Such events are rare, but they do happen. I was robbed at gunpoint 31 years ago in Atlanta while walking back to my apartment from the GT campus. I wasn't hurt that day, but it could easily have turned out differently.

But meanwhile in reality, mentally ill people are far more at risk, than they are posing a risk.

The nutter who suddenly kills at random isn't a threat that's sufficiently common as to justify precautions against it - EVEN if you are already regularly interacting with a mentally ill person.

Its not just the mentally ill, there are also armed criminals. I think of my CWP as an insurance policy; I hope never to use it, but I have it just in case I do.

I think you do a disservice to all the people who carry firearms responsibly and in full conformance with the law by insinuating that every concealed weapons permit holder is out lusting for blood, and is unable to respond to a potentially threatening situation without drawing their gun.

I don't.

Mainly because I am insinuating no such thing.

That you assume such lurid beliefs on the part of people who haven't expressed them suggests strongly that you are not sufficiently stable as to be trusted with lethal weapons.

There you go again. Saying that people are mentally unstable because they pointed out that some adults have the emotional and intellectual maturity, as well as the appropriate training to allow themselves to legally carry firearms without being a threat to people around them.

I never suggested that 'some adults' lacked that stability; Only that your statements suggested that you aren't one of them

The gun is a last resort, to be used when there is an immediate threat to your life, or the life of someone in your vicinity, and you have no way to safely walk away from the threat without drawing the weapon.

Or, as those of us in the civilised world would put it, 'never'.

Almost nobody is ever in such a situation in the developed world. You might as well invest in a safe to store your winnings, just in case you win the lottery, as invest in a firearm, just in case you are in a position where the employment of lethal force is practically achievable, unavoidable, and essential to save lives.

It's something that only happens in fantasy (such as that routinely presented by Hollywood).

Real guns are not defensive devices.

I have no problem at all with guns for hunting; For sporting purposes such as target shooting; For warfare; Or even in extreme situations for law enforcement.

But the gun for self defence is a delusional fantasy, and a highly dangerous one at that.

My life experiences over the past 55 years tell me otherwise. Come walk a mile in my shoes before you pass judgement.

No, I shall pass judgement just fine based on my own extensive and directly relevant experience, thanks all the same.

And when the zombies rise up, and come breaking down your door to feast on your brains, you may regret your choices. I did try to warn you. I have guns and a security ninja cat to protect me, so I'll be ok.

Speaking of security, we had engaged the services of a crack security ninja cat to guard our home about 16 months ago. But as soon as the long-term employment contract was signed and the cat established in our home, said security ninja turned into a slacker who spends his days guarding his bed on the couch, or my lap. Such is life:

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No matter how cute your cat is, it remains true that a gun isn't a defensive device.

I suspect that most Americans have little grasp of the meaning of the word 'defence'.

I can understand why your thinking is so muddled, being that you live on the bottom half of the planet where you are always upside down and the blood is constantly pooling in your brain. Low oxygen supply to the brain - that's the problem. You can fix that temporarily by doing headstands every 10 minutes or so, especially when you need to think.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And this is so common? Crazy people deciding to kill you on the streets, using a concealed knife?

It’s a lot more common for there to be people like the McMasters family or Zimmerman, deciding that someone is a threat because??

Or people making a mistake and think they are shooting a deer only it’s a horse carrying a young girl.

I’ve dealt with my share of actual crazy people ( amateur diagnosis but …) one of whom was attacking someone else (no weapons but not a sure bet that he wasn’t armed—he was definitely crazy and hopped up on something). That’s not even counting the so called normal guys who were attacking girls/young women, sometimes me. That sort of thing is extremely common. Extremely. It’s not that often women decide to pull out guns to kill would be rapists.

What’s way too common is not the crazy guy with a 4 inch blade but the ‘perfectly normal’ crazies who walk around with guns and use them in crowds.

Did you miss the fact that the guy has already used potentially lethal force against an employee??