Florida Republican urges voters not to 'monkey this up' by electing 'articulate' black Democrat

[phands]

I leave it to Derec to educate us as to why this isn't racist, with the usual array of gibberish....

Rep. Ron DeSantis’s campaign spent the morning after he won the primary for Florida governor denying that DeSantis had made racist comments about his opponent on television. Democrat Andrew Gillum, the mayor of Tallahassee, is black, so it was bad enough that, in an interview with Fox News, DeSantis first described Gillum using the racially loaded sounds-like-praise-but-isn’t descriptor “articulate.” But DeSantis wasn’t done, saying:

Let’s build off the success we’ve had under Gov. [Rick] Scott. The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state.
​

Nudge, nudge, wink. Let’s not monkey this up if you catch my drift, there.
Subtle. So subtle, these people. DeSantis’s campaign insists that he was just talking about socialism, and “to characterize it as anything else is absurd.” DeSantis got “articulate” and “monkey” into the same 30 seconds, but no, nothing racist going on there, just ignore all those dogs that simultaneously woke up and started howling.
Given how fast DeSantis got started down this path, this campaign may require a “days since last racist dog whistle” calendar, and the count may never get past two.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...this-up-by-electing-articulate-black-Democrat

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, DeSantis did insist that he's not including any racist dog whistles in his campaign during this morning's stop at a watermelon plantation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

At least he didn't say "well spoken".

It is getting hard to tell what anyone means on the right-wing these days. Was that racist talk... racist speak for his base... racist speak to the media... racist speak to upset liberals... a poorly chosen term? I just can't tell anymore.

And can we get to the point that his opponent isn't a "socialist". The right-wing gets away with this stuff all the time. My socialist's opponent wants to raise taxes enormously and bankrupt the state with all that extra revenue.

 

[Derec]

I leave it to Derec to educate us as to why this isn't racist

Using the phrase "monkey something up" is not racist, no.

Rep. Ron DeSantis’s campaign spent the morning after he won the primary for Florida governor denying that DeSantis had made racist comments about his opponent on television. Democrat Andrew Gillum, the mayor of Tallahassee, is black, so it was bad enough that, in an interview with Fox News, DeSantis first described Gillum using the racially loaded sounds-like-praise-but-isn’t descriptor “articulate.”

The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state.

I do not see anything racist here. It's amazing how hypersenzitive we as a culture have become to anything white people say, but when nonwhite people say overtly racist things like "cancel white people", it's considered worthy of New York Times.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...this-up-by-electing-articulate-black-Democrat

You are seriously using Daily Kos as a source? That's as bad as using Breitbart!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The language can most certainly be racist, or a dog whistle, or benign. The Trump-wing has made it impossible to tell.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

When looking for racism, I can see why somebody would reasonably see "monkey it up" as that.

But "articulate"? That's a pretty wild stretch. If I say that Obama was very articulate and a great speaker (he was), especially after Bush Junior and his folksy poor language skills, this is racist because Obama is black and Bush Junior is white?

 

[phands]

I think that the use of "articulate" indicates that De Santis is educated (and articulate!) enough to choose words carefully, and thus he knew exactly what he was doing in the choice of "monkey".

 

[Underseer]

Using the phrase "monkey something up" is not racist, no.


View attachment 17276

The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases and bankrupting the state.

I do not see anything racist here. It's amazing how hypersenzitive we as a culture have become to anything white people say, but when nonwhite people say overtly racist things like "cancel white people", it's considered worthy of New York Times.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...this-up-by-electing-articulate-black-Democrat

You are seriously using Daily Kos as a source? That's as bad as using Breitbart!

A: You are very purple.
B: No, I'm not! Because THAT GUY OVER THERE IS ALSO PURPLE!
A: I apologize, that definitely proves that you are not purple.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

If your response to an accusation of racism is to accuse someone else of also being racist, then you are a racist. It doesn't matter if your counter-accusation has merit or not, you admitted to being wrong.

 

[Copernicus]

The use of "ape" and "monkey" for a racial slur is widespread and has been in use since the founding of the country. Right wing sources featured it a lot in anti-Obama propaganda and rhetoric, and it always caused an uproar in the media. DeSantis is not that naive and stupid, nor are his supporters. They do not need long memories to know the effect of such language. So it is an easy tactic to evoke the image with "monkey up" and then walk it back immediately. The advantage is that it delights the right wing base and especially delights racists within the base, because it is just another "make the lefty heads explode" tactic. Then they can complain about the "hypersensitivity" and "political correctness"--a ploy that resonates well with conservatives. Playing coy over racially-tinged language works for them, and it is dog-whistle politics because people who are not particularly partisan will give them the benefit of the doubt. It also works to DeSantis' advantage if he can provoke Gillum into getting down and dirty with him, because Republicans are better at playing that game. I hope that Gillum can stay above this and not let the campaign become an angry flame war between left and right.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The use of "ape" and "monkey" for a racial slur is widespread and has been in use since the founding of the country. Right wing sources featured it a lot in anti-Obama propaganda and rhetoric, and it always caused an uproar in the media. DeSantis is not that naive and stupid, nor are his supporters. They do not need long memories to know the effect of such language. So it is an easy tactic to evoke the image with "monkey up" and then walk it back immediately. The advantage is that it delights the right wing base and especially delights racists within the base, because it is just another "make the lefty heads explode" tactic. Then they can complain about the "hypersensitivity" and "political correctness"--a ploy that resonates well with conservatives. Playing coy over racially-tinged language works for them, and it is dog-whistle politics because people who are not particularly partisan will give them the benefit of the doubt. It works to DeSantis' advantage if he can provoke Gillum into getting down and dirty with him, because Republicans are better at playing that game.

Sure, but what about "articulate"? That's a serious hypersensitivity in and of itself, completely aside from the monkey thing.

 

[phands]

Using the phrase "monkey something up" is not racist, no.


View attachment 17276


I do not see anything racist here. It's amazing how hypersenzitive we as a culture have become to anything white people say, but when nonwhite people say overtly racist things like "cancel white people", it's considered worthy of New York Times.



You are seriously using Daily Kos as a source? That's as bad as using Breitbart!

A: You are very purple.
B: No, I'm not! Because THAT GUY OVER THERE IS ALSO PURPLE!
A: I apologize, that definitely proves that you are not purple.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

If your response to an accusation of racism is to accuse someone else of also being racist, then you are a racist. It doesn't matter if your counter-accusation has merit or not, you admitted to being wrong.

it's amusing (but not funny) to see my prediction about Derec splashing around in the shallow end of the gene pool come true so quickly.

And Daily Kos is NOT comparable to Breitbart. Kos publishes (uncomfortable for racists and other bigots) facts. Breitbart has a degree from MSU. (that's Making Shit Up...special adviser on alternative facts, CreepyAnn Scumway).

 

[J842P]

At least he didn't say "well spoken".

It is getting hard to tell what anyone means on the right-wing these days. Was that racist talk... racist speak for his base... racist speak to the media... racist speak to upset liberals... a poorly chosen term? I just can't tell anymore.

And can we get to the point that his opponent isn't a "socialist". The right-wing gets away with this stuff all the time. My socialist's opponent wants to raise taxes enormously and bankrupt the state with all that extra revenue.

Hard to say. I suppose you could give the benefit of the doubt if "monkey up" was a common euphemism for "fuck up" and the candidate was trying to avoid profanity. I'm not particularly well versed in euphemism, I find it offense. Fuck that.

But certainly, it looks bad.

Less believable than Roseanne Barr, whom I really believe didn't know Valerie Jarrett was white.

 

[Copernicus]

The use of "ape" and "monkey" for a racial slur is widespread and has been in use since the founding of the country. Right wing sources featured it a lot in anti-Obama propaganda and rhetoric, and it always caused an uproar in the media. DeSantis is not that naive and stupid, nor are his supporters. They do not need long memories to know the effect of such language. So it is an easy tactic to evoke the image with "monkey up" and then walk it back immediately. The advantage is that it delights the right wing base and especially delights racists within the base, because it is just another "make the lefty heads explode" tactic. Then they can complain about the "hypersensitivity" and "political correctness"--a ploy that resonates well with conservatives. Playing coy over racially-tinged language works for them, and it is dog-whistle politics because people who are not particularly partisan will give them the benefit of the doubt. It works to DeSantis' advantage if he can provoke Gillum into getting down and dirty with him, because Republicans are better at playing that game.

Sure, but what about "articulate"? That's a serious hypersensitivity in and of itself, completely aside from the monkey thing.

The word "articulate" is not racially-tinged stereotyping in the same way that simian references are. When I first heard Gillum speak, I thought he was particularly articulate in comparison to a great many politicians. He spoke with a standard American English (i.e. "Northern") accent, but a growing number of southern politicians already do that in the South. It is possible that DeSantis' supporters saw his reference as condescending, because they expect black politicians to sound less intelligent. That can be considered racist, but it isn't necessarily something that will be heard as a "dog whistle" to most people.

 

[laughing dog]

Sure, but what about "articulate"? That's a serious hypersensitivity in and of itself, completely aside from the monkey thing.

Here is an article (https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html)that explains why the use of "articulate" to describe a black person may raise eyebrows a bit. Basically, it may come across the it is exceptional or surprising that a black person is articulate.

 

[Harry Bosch]

At least he didn't say "well spoken".

It is getting hard to tell what anyone means on the right-wing these days. Was that racist talk... racist speak for his base... racist speak to the media... racist speak to upset liberals... a poorly chosen term? I just can't tell anymore.

And can we get to the point that his opponent isn't a "socialist". The right-wing gets away with this stuff all the time. My socialist's opponent wants to raise taxes enormously and bankrupt the state with all that extra revenue.

Hard to say. I suppose you could give the benefit of the doubt if "monkey up" was a common euphemism for "fuck up" and the candidate was trying to avoid profanity. I'm not particularly well versed in euphemism, I find it offense. Fuck that.

But certainly, it looks bad.

Less believable than Roseanne Barr, whom I really believe didn't know Valerie Jarrett was white.

Yea, I have to say that I've never heard of "monkey it up" either. Has anyone else ever heard this phrase or used it? Maybe it's a Florida or east coast thing?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When looking for racism, I can see why somebody would reasonably see "monkey it up" as that.

But "articulate"? That's a pretty wild stretch. If I say that Obama was very articulate and a great speaker (he was), especially after Bush Junior and his folksy poor language skills, this is racist because Obama is black and Bush Junior is white?

In general I would consider this might or might not be racism. However, this is a politician--someone usually very careful to choose their words to make it seem like they're taking the side of as many people as possible.

Thus, dog whistle.

 

[Copernicus]

Sure, but what about "articulate"? That's a serious hypersensitivity in and of itself, completely aside from the monkey thing.

Here is an article (https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html)that explains why the use of "articulate" to describe a black person may raise eyebrows a bit. Basically, it may come across the it is exceptional or surprising that a black person is articulate.

That is an interesting article, but the fact is that white people do use the word "articulate" to describe people who are white, just as they used many synonyms for "inarticulate" to describe speakers like Trump and Bush. The author does touch on what I think the more important problem is and where the real sensitivity arises--the fact that so many blacks speak a variety of English known variously as "Black Venacular English" (BEV), "Black English", or (idiotically) "Ebonics". BEV is a variant of the Southern English dialect spoken by most people raised in the deep South, and it is associated with lack of education. Racial discrimination is still largely taboo these days, despite its resurgence under Trump, but discriminatory remarks based on dialect are often used as a "safe" method for calling attention to an individual's race. That seems to be what people are picking up on here.

I have taught many introductory courses in linguistics, and one of my favorite lectures was one in which I played a recording of various dialects, asking the class to describe the individual they heard speaking. I was especially interested in how advanced they thought the education of the speaker was. One speaker invariably got branded as uneducated, because he spoke with a thick southern accent. Many thought that he was African American. In fact, he was a very white world-renowned specialist on Indo-European languages who went on to become a dean at Princeton University. He just never lost his southern accent.

At least he didn't say "well spoken".

It is getting hard to tell what anyone means on the right-wing these days. Was that racist talk... racist speak for his base... racist speak to the media... racist speak to upset liberals... a poorly chosen term? I just can't tell anymore.

And can we get to the point that his opponent isn't a "socialist". The right-wing gets away with this stuff all the time. My socialist's opponent wants to raise taxes enormously and bankrupt the state with all that extra revenue.

Hard to say. I suppose you could give the benefit of the doubt if "monkey up" was a common euphemism for "fuck up" and the candidate was trying to avoid profanity. I'm not particularly well versed in euphemism, I find it offense. Fuck that.

But certainly, it looks bad.

Less believable than Roseanne Barr, whom I really believe didn't know Valerie Jarrett was white.

Yea, I have to say that I've never heard of "monkey it up" either. Has anyone else ever heard this phrase or used it? Maybe it's a Florida or east coast thing?

No, I think that he was extending the idiom "to monkey with something", meaning to break something that was working.

 

[RavenSky]

At least he didn't say "well spoken".

It is getting hard to tell what anyone means on the right-wing these days. Was that racist talk... racist speak for his base... racist speak to the media... racist speak to upset liberals... a poorly chosen term? I just can't tell anymore.

And can we get to the point that his opponent isn't a "socialist". The right-wing gets away with this stuff all the time. My socialist's opponent wants to raise taxes enormously and bankrupt the state with all that extra revenue.

Hard to say. I suppose you could give the benefit of the doubt if "monkey up" was a common euphemism for "fuck up" and the candidate was trying to avoid profanity. I'm not particularly well versed in euphemism, I find it offense. Fuck that.

But certainly, it looks bad.

Less believable than Roseanne Barr, whom I really believe didn't know Valerie Jarrett was white.

Yea, I have to say that I've never heard of "monkey it up" either. Has anyone else ever heard this phrase or used it? Maybe it's a Florida or east coast thing?

Not a "Florida thing".

Maybe he learned it on the Tea Party Facebook group he moderates

Ron DeSantis, the Trump-endorsed congressman who won Tuesday’s GOP primary for Florida governor, is an administrator on an active Facebook group where conservatives share racist, conspiratorial and incendiary posts about a litany of targets, including black Americans and South Africans, the “deep state,” survivors of February’s massacre at a Florida high school, immigrants, Muslims and, in recent days, John McCain.

https://american-ledger.com/account...can-americans-parkland-survivors-and-muslims/

 

[fast]

When looking for racism, I can see why somebody would reasonably see "monkey it up" as that.

But "articulate"? That's a pretty wild stretch. If I say that Obama was very articulate and a great speaker (he was), especially after Bush Junior and his folksy poor language skills, this is racist because Obama is black and Bush Junior is white?

I admit that I was as much taken back (as you) by the idea that describing a black person as articulate would be judged as racially insensitive. For a moment, I was thinking of whether or not this was yet another word to be wary of when among people of color and if being extra careful to avoid its use was warranted to avoid inadvertently offending others.

After thinking about this, I don't think either of us have to worry about negative repercussions for not self-restraining ourselves from referring to a black person as articulate so long as there is no race-based motivated air of surprise in our conveyance of it. How you said it was appropriate and not racially insensitive.

If I have low expectations of people because of their race and that sentiment is felt, then what would otherwise be perceived as a compliment will be interpreted as racially based condescension.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The nigger haters heard what they wanted to hear from their man. Now they can vote for him.

I would not have heard a racial slur but I lived in Georgia and Alabama for quite a few years, so I know one when I hear one.