Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[Deepak]

Just want to make sure I'm clear on this. The guy protests racial inequality, and now the police are protesting his actions by refusing to participate in a pre game ceremony.

Instead of saying "Yes, we must stop racism and shooting unarmed people within our ranks", they are saying "F*** you fof having a problem with that".

Just wanted to be clear.

I posted this in 2017. One theory of quantum mechanics is the multiverse theory - which implies that somewhere there is a universe where Kap kneels, a Chinese nationalist catches wind of this occurrence and says to himself, “Gee whiz, if that happened in my country he would be punished for that, but what a great place this America is where a man can make a peaceful political statement.” And maybe, just maybe some politician would look into the data and make changes in the system.

But not in this universe of racist America.

This is the key here.

Every time anyone says anything about how people should protest and what MLK did, remember that a man kneeling on TV was too much and MLK was murdered.

It takes a profound ignorance of political theory and a high degree of tactical stupidity to not understand that there's some underlying problem with policing that's causing these reactions:

Neither of these photos has reached retirement age yet:

 

[lpetrich]

Has Trump declared war on the US to save his own skin? | Arwa Mahdawi | Opinion | The Guardian

There is a school of thought that argues the urban uprisings in the US will help Trump. There have been numerous comparisons to 1968, when Richard Nixon exploited an anti-riot backlash and rode a law-and-order platform to electoral victory. Trump seems to be trying his best to pull a Nixon. ...

Complete with talking about a "silent majority" that is supposedly on his side.

There is another school of thought, however, that reckons this moment will harm Trump more than it helps him. He may be trying to ape Nixon, but there are enormous differences between 1968 and 2020 – not least the fact that Nixon was not trying to win a second term. Trump is doing his best to blame Democrats for the unrest, but he can’t get around the fact that he is the president. He is the one who is supposed to be in charge.

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | If This Is Like 1968, Then Trump Is in Big Trouble - POLITICO - "Trump campaigns like Richard Nixon and George Wallace, but in reality, he is Lyndon Johnson: a man who has lost control of the machine."

Nixon’s law-and-order message wasn’t just about urban riots. It was a repudiation of the governing party for its alleged part in the general unraveling of peace, prosperity and order.

... The incumbent president, Lyndon B. Johnson, and by extension, his vice president, Hubert Humphrey, had presided over the very social unraveling that many voters were eager to reverse. This was Nixon’s opening—his appeal to swing voters, especially.

... What the journalist Walter Lippmann said in 1968—“the world has never been more disorderly within memory of living man”—might credibly be said today. One key difference: Today, the candidate demanding “law and order” is the one who couldn’t preserve it.

So Trump is in LBJ's place instead of in GW's or RN's place.

Like Johnson before him, Trump’s is the party in power—the party that has failed to provide peace, prosperity and social order. Republicans control the executive branch, the Senate and the Supreme Court. They alone own the chaos, rancor and instability that many voters have come to abhor and dread.

Trump campaigns like Richard Nixon and George Wallace, but in reality, he is Lyndon B. Johnson: a man who has lost control of the machine.

GW ran against Sixties activists and demonstrators and rioters, and he let RN seem conciliatory.

If Donald Trump were the GOP challenger, running to unseat President Hillary Clinton, the violence sweeping over America’s cities might well have worked to his advantage. But he’s not. He is a deeply polarizing and, by historic standards, unpopular president who has overseen almost four years of unrelenting chaos and drama ...

Unlike Johnson, Trump has proved stubbornly indifferent to the responsibilities of governing. He shuns expertise, science, data or any of the other assets a typical president avails himself of. He has little in the way of achievement that he can point to. He thrives on division, where LBJ sought to make America a more inclusive place for people of color, the poor and the left behind. In this regard, the two men are night and day, both in how they’ve executed the job and the moral bearing they brought to it.

Trump seems to want the glory of the Presidency without any of the work of it. His great villain Obama was much more willing to do the work of the Presidency. He has been helped by all the politicians and aides who have been so very willing to enable him, and there seems to be nothing that will make them stop enabling him.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Floyd was in the cop car and they took him back out.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/vEeMHFik9Xo[/YOUTUBE]

Do you expect the officer to put his knee on this guy's throat in the backseat of the cop car? The officer could throw out his back.

 

[lpetrich]

Black Lives Matter on Twitter: "It's been 24 hours and I still have yet to see any NRA member standing up to this military occupation they always say they need guns for." / Twitter

Anger as local police union chief calls George Floyd a 'violent criminal' | US news | The Guardian

The president of the Minneapolis police union has written to its members calling George Floyd a “violent criminal”, describing those protesting over his death as terrorists and criticizing the city’s political leadership for not authorizing greater use of force to stop the rioting.

The letter drew a swift rebuke from a former Minneapolis police chief who called it a disgrace.

Joe Waczewski on Twitter: "@davidhogg111 The police unions are notoriously resistant to oversight and police reform and have resisted even in Democratic localities, such as Chicago and NY. That’s why they support Trump. The key is to break that alliance" / Twitter


Ella Jones elected first black mayor in Ferguson's history nearly six years after protests solidified Black Lives Matter movement - CNNPolitics

 

[Terrell]

He's already face down & cuffed. There are 4 officers, 1 suspect. Why not just pick him up, put him in the car, drive him to the station, and do whatever legal procedures that go with arrest? If 4 cops can't do this without killing a man who is already restrained, IMO they shouldn't be cops.

I agree. However, there was no intent to kill, and I do no think a person without his heart condition AND who wasn't high on meth and fentanyl would have died under these circumstances.

Take these two:
‘Twilight’ actor, girlfriend died of cocaine, fentanyl overdose
Much younger than Floyd too. Sure, they took coke rather than meth, but they are both powerful stimulants.

I think a crime has been committed by police, but not murder.

I disagree. Preexisting conditions do not rule out murder when they're fatally exacerbated by the deliberate (unreasonable) actions of another.
https://www.startribune.com/protests-build-anew-after-fired-officer-charged-jailed/570869672/

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020...eorge-floyd-death-minneapolis-police-officer/

Pending further evidence, I don't think the cop is overcharged. If it hasn't changed he wasn't charged with 1st degree, but 3rd degree. What does MN law say about 3rd degree?

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.
History: 1963 c 753 art 1 s 609.195; 1977 c 130 s 3; 1981 c 227 s 11; 1987 c 176 s 1
Copyright © 2019 by the Revisor of Statutes, State of Minnesota. All rights reserved.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

Widespread looting in NYC.
Looters strike luxury shops around NYC before curfew sets in

Is deBlasio fiddling? NYC needs much harder police response!
And why hasn't Cuomo mobilized the national guard yet?

What you don't seem to understand is that we seem to have three groups in play at this point.

1) The protesters. They appear to be pretty much non-violent, but are getting attacked by the police without justification in many cities. There is a lot of video out there of crowds doing nothing but speaking and getting attacked. There is plenty of video of reporters being attacked by the police for covering the protests. Can't have the reporters showing that the protesters aren't the violent ones.

2) The looters. Some of it is probably opportunistic, some of it appears to be organized (probably gangs doing it.)

3) The vandals. Some is probably just scumbags who enjoy doing it and think they can get away with it now. Some of it appears to be organized, those that have been identified seem to be white nationalists.

It's groups 2 and 3 that are the problem, but they hit and run, the cops go after the easy catches, never mind that they're almost certainly not guilty.

You nailed it. It's also in the interest of those who oppose the first group to conflate them with the other two.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Here's another good question, imho. Why are the current protests so widespread across the USA (and indeed involving actors of more than one race or socioeconomic group)?

Obviously, I would not expect that there are simple answers. Quite the opposite.

And whatever way you slice it, America has gone backwards since Obama, imo, and it is a great pity, because America is in many ways still a great country, and seemed to be improving as regards the relevant issues here. Until the backlash and the swing back to the right.

The protests are widespread for a few reasons.

1) Black poverty is widespread. Apparently centuries of repression couldn't be resolved in just a few decades. Some people like to blame blacks for the crime and violence (generalized, not about the protests)... and yes, there is no excuse for crime and violence... it is an indicator of poverty, not race. Much like how blacks die from cancers more often than whites or that blacks are dying more often from COVID-19 than whites. People think blacks are more susceptible to COVID-19 as well as committing crime? No... it's the poverty.

2) Systemic bias is widespread. While there is racism, I think that systemic bias is the much bigger problem, ie playing the odds. Some black guy trying to force his way into a nice home... must be a robber, not a professor at Harvard. Or these nice white guys say the black guy lunged at them, and him being black and them being white, this is a viable explanation from people that'd go to prison if they admitted to reckless actions that caused a death.

3) No one is listening... is widespread. We've seen the videos of evidence being planted, officers needlessly shooting, etc... This stuff has been alleged for a while. And this particular case, the officer had lots of complaints against him... but no one listened to those complaining, and because of that, someone is dead. People are tired of being ignored across the country. And the culture in the Police needs adjusting.

 

[Derec]

I posted this in 2017. One theory of quantum mechanics is the multiverse theory - which implies

Pseudoscientific misuse of quantum mechanics for $400, Alex!

that somewhere there is a universe where Kap kneels, a Chinese nationalist catches wind of this occurrence and says to himself, “Gee whiz, if that happened in my country he would be punished for that, but what a great place this America is where a man can make a peaceful political statement.” And maybe, just maybe some politician would look into the data and make changes in the system.

As I recall, Kaep wasn't arrested for his stunt. But if you do political stunts while in your employer's uniform, they may not take too kindly to that, no matter what your message is (and Kaep's was seriously flawed, see below).

But not in this universe of racist America.

To people like you, pretty much everything is racist as long as white people do it, and nothing a black person does is ever racist.

Every time anyone says anything about how people should protest and what MLK did, remember that a man kneeling on TV was too much and MLK was murdered.

If by "man on TV" you mean Kaep, he knelt to protest against United States because a guy who just stabbed somebody refused to drop his knife even after police used non-lethal bean bag rounds. The perp (Mario Woods) did not want to go back to prison, as he had just been released on parole for robbery.

Note also that MLK's murderer got 99 years in a plea deal (to avoid death penalty) and that he died in prison.

[stupid meme about Eric Garner being "murdered"]

He wasn't murdered, it was accidental death due to his preexisting conditions and the fact that he resisted arrest.

[protest against race mixing]

I remember when a black guy who was against race mixing (Cassius Clay aka Mohammed Ali) died a few years ago, he was hailed as some sort of civil rights hero, including on here.
I guess being against race mixing is only wrong if you are white.

 

[Rhea]

All of that means that the police in Minneapolis used force against black people at a rate at least seven times that of white people during the past five years.

Wow. Times 7.

My (overseas) take on that is:

I would not be surprised if some of it, possibly even much of it, was due to non-racist factors, and/or factors that the black communities need to address or at least acknowledge themselves. Which would leave room for at least some racism. And I don't necessarily just mean out-and-out strong racism. Some could be merely mild or implicit. It would only be some officers, and so on. But my guess is that anyone who says that particular ethnic group have no good reason to feel hard done by is probably getting it wrong, imo. And I say that while thinking a lot of progress has been made during my lifetime (some of which might have been reversed this last few years perhaps).

Trying to understand what you wrote...

"Wow. That's a lot. It's probably their own fault. Maybe they have a little point. But it's not as bad as it used to be anyway."


It didn't feel good.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trying to understand what you wrote...

"Wow. That's a lot. It's probably their own fault. Maybe they have a little point. But it's not as bad as it used to be anyway."


It didn't feel good.

There are definitely two avenues here, the police (systemic issues with bias and sociopaths) and the public (flat out racist bullshit!).

Look no further than Trayvon Martin for people to sift through every social media post to find the juicy bits that let them justify their biased (racist) view of him. Listen to them complain when media shows Martin dressed up and looking nice because 'that isn't how they see him', that the image is a lie. They don't care who the person was, but what they want him to have been. ANd I think this is just as much a problem as the systemic issues that plague Police Departments. Because the pressure with appear bureaucratic, not public.

 

[Deepak]

Pseudoscientific misuse of quantum mechanics for $400, Alex!

 

[Toni]

All of that means that the police in Minneapolis used force against black people at a rate at least seven times that of white people during the past five years.

Wow. Times 7.

My (overseas) take on that is:

I would not be surprised if some of it, possibly even much of it, was due to non-racist factors, and/or factors that the black communities need to address or at least acknowledge themselves. Which would leave room for at least some racism. And I don't necessarily just mean out-and-out strong racism. Some could be merely mild or implicit. It would only be some officers, and so on. But my guess is that anyone who says that particular ethnic group have no good reason to feel hard done by is probably getting it wrong, imo. And I say that while thinking a lot of progress has been made during my lifetime (some of which might have been reversed this last few years perhaps).

Of purse you wouldn’t be surprised. It’s so much easier to believe that oppressed people bring their oppression on themselves.

Here’s the truth: no one person and no group is perfect.

So what?

You do not need be be perfect to be deserving of equal protection under the law.

You do not need to be perfect to deserve not have police officers kneel on your neck until you are dead.

You do not need to be perfect to deserve to know that your children will be treated with the same fairness, courtesy, respect and sense of wonder and promise and ability as any other child in school, in the community, in the world.

You do not need to be perfect to believe that your child can play in a park without being shot to death by police. Or in your bed. Or at a traffic stop. Or because some police officer thinks that they can tell that you robbed a store last week.

You do not need to be perfect to be treated as a fellow human being. As though your life matters.

 

[lpetrich]

Protests were mostly peaceful Tuesday, despite police provocation - Vox - "George Floyd’s brothers called for deescalation this week."

The protests that have surfaced around the United States mostly unfolded peacefully Tuesday night, with any escalation largely coming from law enforcement.

Demonstrations continued across the nation despite many cities imposing curfews — a number of which were ignored by protesters. In Houston and Philadelphia, protesters raised their arms in a gesture of surrender; in Chicago and Los Angeles, they sat in the street; in Washington, DC, and St. Paul, they kneeled and sat in silence. And across the US, agitation and property seizures were limited — there was little focus on causing chaos or opportunism, and more focus on the message: Americans across the country want to see an end to police killings and are demanding anti-racism reforms.

...
On Monday, Floyd’s brother, Terrence Floyd, told protesters in Minneapolis, “Let’s do this another way,” adding, “If I’m not over here wildin’ out, if I’m not over here blowing up stuff, if I’m not over here messing up my community then what are y’all doing?”

...
And Tuesday, in Houston, where George Floyd grew up, his brother Philonise Floyd asked for demonstrations to continue, but that they be peaceful, telling a crowd that through continued activism, police reform would become a reality.

“We’re trying to break the cycle right now,” he said. “We got this.”

That's good. It's good that they are committed to nonviolent activism. It's good that they are not saying "What the honkies did to us, we will do to the honkies."

 

[lpetrich]

De-escalation Keeps Protesters And Police Safer. Departments Respond With Force Anyway. | FiveThirtyEight

Turns out, we do know some of these answers. Researchers have spent 50 years studying the way crowds of protesters and crowds of police behave — and what happens when the two interact. One thing they will tell you is that when the police respond by escalating force — wearing riot gear from the start, or using tear gas on protesters — it doesn’t work. In fact, disproportionate police force is one of the things that can make a peaceful protest not so peaceful. But if we know that (and have known that for decades), why are police still doing it?

“There’s this failed mindset of ‘if we show force, immediately we will deter criminal activity or unruly activity’ and show me where that has worked,” said Scott Thomson, the former chief of police in Camden, New Jersey.

...
De-escalation strategies definitely exist. Anne Nassauer, a professor of sociology at Freie Universität in Berlin, has studied how the Berlin Police Department handles protests and soccer matches. She found that one key element is transparent communication — something Nassauer said helps increase trust and diffuse potentially tense moments. The Berlin police employs people specifically to make announcements in these situations, using different speakers, with local accents or different languages, for things like information about what police are doing, and another speaker for commands. Either way, the messages are delivered in a calm, measured voice.

...
The disconnect between rank and file and executive leadership — commonly cited as an impediment to policing reform — also seems to get in the way of improving policing of protests. Take the Atlanta Police Department as an example. On Saturday the city’s chief Erika Shields earned plaudits for meeting face to face with protesters, empathizing with their grief and fear, and even reprimanding some of her own officers: “I’m standing here because what I saw was my people face to face with this crowd and everyone is thinking, ‘How can we use force to diffuse it,’ and I’m not having that.” But mere hours later, her department was trending on social media again — this time because officers had used tasers to force two college students out of their vehicle, even though they did not appear to be posing any threat.

The article noted New Directions in Protest Policing - viewcontent.cgi

It's good that it's possible for cops to do their jobs without being brutal. Consider how easy they went on lockdown protesters. As an aside, that sort of thing reminds me of the Weimar Republic (Germany, 1918 - 1933). Much tougher on rebellions on the Left than rebellions on the Right. Much tougher on the Bavarian Soviet Republic than the Kapp Putsch or the Beer Hall Putsch.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

So the latest attempts to alt-spin all of the police officers kneeling in solidarity with protestors is that they are just doing it sarcastically as a means to placate the irrational mobs of lunatic liberals.

Too bad the image will forever tell the real story:

 

[repoman]

Do The Right Thing 2

Coming soon

 

[lpetrich]

D.C. protests live updates: Crowds march on Capitol; mayor issues curfew order - The Washington Post

Trump’s weak attempt to outsource strongman rule to the military - The Washington Post

Trump demands journalists correct stories on the use of tear gas. According to the CDC, it was tear gas. - The Washington Post
Trump can't stop acting like a big baby. It's a pity that Mitch McConnell is unwilling to try to pound some sense into Trump's head, like by threatening to get Senate Republicans to stop enabling Trump. Like threaten to get the Senate to pass all the bills that he's been collecting on his desk, and override Trump's veto if necessary.

Ken Klippenstein on Twitter: "FBI found "no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement" in May 31 violence, per FBI report leaked to me.
That was the same day that Trump vowed to designate Antifa a terrorist organization. [url]https://t.co/Nh2RNTO1NK https://t.co/EmLZE7nkjl" / Twitter[/url]

George Joseph on Twitter: "NEW: In secret recordings, police officers in Mount Vernon, NY say their colleagues framed innocent people again and again.
The [MENTION=634]West[/MENTION]chesterDA got these tapes last year but kept prosecuting people⁠—without disclosing the evidence. Here it is: https://t.co/dfr6Q6mMBA" / Twitter
noting
The Mount Vernon Police Tapes: In Secretly Recorded Phone Calls, Officers Say Innocent People Were Framed - Gothamist

Caught on tape by a whistleblower cop, the officers said they witnessed or took part in alarming acts of police misconduct, from framing and beating residents to collaborating with drug dealers, all as part of a culture of impunity within the department’s narcotics unit.

Kristen Clarke 866-OUR-VOTE on Twitter: "It is outrageous that one man, Rand Paul, has BLOCKED Congress from final passage of the Emmett Till Antilynching Act. His actions amount to acceptance of racial violence which continues to this day. https://t.co/1srpfZUAGe" / Twitter
noting
Why Congress hasn’t made lynching a hate crime - "The measure easily passed by the House is being held up by Sen. Rand Paul." - Ron Paul's son

 

[lpetrich]

Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "Attorney General Ellison is charging ALL officers involved in George Floyd’s killing with aiding and abetting murder, and charging Derek Chauvin with second degree murder.
Overdue but necessary justice." / Twitter

Rep. Ro Khanna on Twitter: "If we can afford to equip thousands of police officers in military-grade riot gear against peaceful protestors, we can afford to give:
Every student access to the internet
Every employee paid sick leave
Every human being universal health care" / Twitter

Enoch Methuselah on Twitter: "HOW AND WHY IS MITCH MCCONNELL ABLE TO BLOCK A RESOLUTION STATING DONALD COMMITED WAR CRIMES BY USING CHEMICAL WEAPONS ON AMERICANS ON AMERICAN SOIL!?!?!?!? I AM BEYOND FED UP WITH THIS ADMINISTRATIONS BULLSHIT!!! DOWN WITH GOP FOREVER!!!!" / Twitter

 

[ZiprHead]

So the charges against Cheauvin (sp?) have been upped to second degree murder and the other three have been charged with aiding and abbetting second degree murder.

 

[southernhybrid]

I was very relieved to hear that the charges were upgraded to 2nd degree murder. I've been explaining to friends all week that that would be the most appropriate charge, given the circumstances. I looked up all the different degrees of murder in Minnesota and 2nd degree murder seems the best. Of course, the other police needed to be charged as well. Manslaughter seems to fit in those cases. I explained to a black friend of mine that it would be impossible to prove 1st digress murder, as there is really no evidence that this was premeditated. I hope that justice will finally be served when this goes to trial. So many police have gotten off after killing unarmed black men.