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Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

Deepak said:
ZiprHead said:
Poor choice for a hero.

Shaver was witnessed firing a rifle out of a hotel room window right after the Las Vegas massacre. He was armed. The cops that shot him shouldn't have, way too trigger happy.

There are plenty of great white hope heroes out there for you to choose from.
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Don't fall for the bullshit - their point is that they didn't hear about Daniel Shaver at the time on Stormf their right wing news sources.

https://heavy.com/news/2016/03/dani...ng-wife-laney-sweet-facebook-daughters-video/
https://heavy.com/news/2017/12/daniel-shaver-philip-brailsford-mesa-police-shooting-video-full/

Apart from using his corpse as a prop to foment their race w convince people to live in their own ethnostates neither of them gives a damn about Shaver, his death, or accountability for his unnecessary killing
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More importantly, it just another example of "whataboutism" that racists and bigots cite in desperation.
 
southernhybrid said:
I was very relieved to hear that the charges were upgraded to 2nd degree murder.
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Why? Seems like politically-motivated overcharging. Like the Trayvon Martin and Freddie Grey cases.

I've been explaining to friends all week that that would be the most appropriate charge, given the circumstances.
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Not based on reading the statute, no.

I explained to a black friend of mine that it would be impossible to prove 1st digress murder, as there is really no evidence that this was premeditated.
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There is no evidence that it was intentional either.

I hope that justice will finally be served when this goes to trial. So many police have gotten off after killing unarmed black men.
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In vast majority of the cases where police officers were not prosecuted, regardless of race, that is because the shooting had been justified.
Note that unarmed perps can be a threat justifying lethal force if they attack the police officer, as they can take control of the officer's gun.
Note also that #BLM activists will often dishonestly claim that armed perps were "unarmed".

Can you give me a short list of police shootings of unarmed people where there were no charges but you think police the police officer(s) was/were guilty? Or are you just dealing in generalities?
 
repoman said:
Do The Right Thing 2
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If I remember Do The Right Thing 1, it was about how young Gus Fring incited a riot and arson of Sal's pizzeria. I wonder if his real motive was to build a Los Pollos Hermanos at the site. I hope the sequel will answer that question. :)
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Look no further than Trayvon Martin for people to sift through every social media post to find the juicy bits that let them justify their biased (racist) view of him.
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No, having a full picture of who Trayvon Martin was is not "racist". It is a necessary corrective to the hagiographies promulgated by the family and that hearse chaser Crump.

Listen to them complain when media shows Martin dressed up and looking nice because 'that isn't how they see him', that the image is a lie.
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No, people were complaining about how the media was showing old photos of Trayvon at 12 years old.

They don't care who the person was, but what they want him to have been.
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That applies much more to CNN.

Similar thing was repeated with Michael Brown where the Left objected to police releasing video of the "gentle giant" robbing a convenience store.
 
Derec said:
laughing dog said:
More importantly, it just another example of "whataboutism" that racists and bigots cite in desperation.
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Wrong. It's calling your side our for bigoted double standards.
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The post you're quoting quotes another post with links to contemporary reporting from our side. You inability to comprehend the world outside of the confines of your mind are no one else's problem to solve for you.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
1) Black poverty is widespread. Apparently centuries of repression couldn't be resolved in just a few decades. Some people like to blame blacks for the crime and violence (generalized, not about the protests)... and yes, there is no excuse for crime and violence... it is an indicator of poverty, not race. Much like how blacks die from cancers more often than whites or that blacks are dying more often from COVID-19 than whites. People think blacks are more susceptible to COVID-19 as well as committing crime? No... it's the poverty.
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Yes, more blacks than whites are in poverty, but a big majority of blacks is not in poverty.
0255_poverty_by_race-full.gif
Note also that while blacks are about 2x as likely to be in poverty as whites, blacks commit 5x as many homicides (according to FBI data).
So poverty is not an adequate explanation. I think the culture is a much better explanation. There is a part of black culture that glorifies violent crime and lawlessness. I think we as a country took a wrong turn on race relations in the 60s, and I fear we will take another wrong turn now.
What happened in the 60s is that violent, extremist groups like Black Panthers were held up as being positive. Furthermore in academia, instead of helping black people improve educationally by studying and working harder, meaningless fields of study such as "critical race theory" were created and racial preferences in admissions and hiring were pushed hard.

2) Systemic bias is widespread. While there is racism, I think that systemic bias is the much bigger problem, ie playing the odds. Some black guy trying to force his way into a nice home... must be a robber, not a professor at Harvard.
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You don't think a white person forcing his way into a house would look suspicious? All Gates had to do was show the cop his id. He didn't want to do that, which escalated the situation. I think that usually it is not "systemic bias" but rather the chip on the shoulder of people like Gates is what causes the problem.

And this particular case, the officer had lots of complaints against him... but no one listened to those complaining, and because of that, someone is dead.
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No, these complaints were investigated, most were found unfounded and he was disciplined in one instance.
Note that most cops will have have their share of complaints due to the nature of their work. They tend to have unhappy customers. ;)

People say that Klob should have prosecuted Chauvin for a 2006 shooting. But the perp in that shooting stabbed two people and raised a shotgun at police. Perfectly justified.
There was another shooting where a domestic abuser locked himself in the bathroom and went for Chauvin's gun, who then shot him. This guy survived and pled guilty.
Should a police officer be prosecuted every time he or she shoots a black person no matter the evidence or circumstances?

May I offer my own reason why these riots exploded at this particular time
4) People are going crazy with all these Corona restrictions.
 
Derec said:
Wrong. It's calling your side our for bigoted double standards.
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Ignoring the irony of that one, "whataboutism" is desperation. In this particular instance, it is also incredibly hypocritical since the law and order crowd would have no problem with the circumstances of Mr. Shaver's death (proximity of "weapons" and his reaching backwards).

Did the police in that instance screw up? Absolutely. Did the officer deserve to be charged and convicted? Absolutely.

No double standard on my end.
 
Deepak said:
The post you're quoting quotes another post with links to contemporary reporting from our side.
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The response by your side to police shootings of white people is very muted compared to very loud response to police shootings of black people, even when they are armed (Mario Woods, Keith Lamont Smith, Quanice Hayes, Tyre King, Darius Smith, Patrick Kimmons and many more).

You inability to comprehend the world outside of the confines of your mind are no one else's problem to solve for you.
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Ditto.
 
How do people figure this warrants a second-degree murder trial? Under subd. 1 (1)?

609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

§Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.
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Terrell said:
Pending further evidence, I don't think the cop is overcharged. If it hasn't changed he wasn't charged with 1st degree, but 3rd degree. What does MN law say about 3rd degree?
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They would have to prove that Chauvin had a "depraved mind". Basically, the same thing that proved too much for Mosely-Brown in the Freddie Grey case.

Moot now, as the "Nation of Islam" sympathizer AG decided to upgrade charges to 2nd degree for political reasons.
 
Derec said:
Deepak said:
The post you're quoting quotes another post with links to contemporary reporting from our side.
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The response by your side to police shootings of white people is very muted compared to very loud response to police shootings of black people, even when they are armed (Mario Woods, Keith Lamont Smith, Quanice Hayes, Tyre King, Darius Smith, Patrick Kimmons and many more).

You inability to comprehend the world outside of the confines of your mind are no one else's problem to solve for you.
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Ditto.
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Your personal response is nonexistent. You don't get to put words in my mouth then complain I'm not loud enough.

You don't give a fuck about Shaver or anybody else. I'll leave diagnosis of your pathology to the reader
 
Meanwhile: James Mattis Denounces President Trump, Describes Him as a Threat to the Constitution

“I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled,” Mattis writes. “The words ‘Equal Justice Under Law’ are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.” He goes on, “We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution.”
...
“When I joined the military, some 50 years ago,” he writes, “I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.”
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He also (very carefully, but not too subtely) compares Trump to Hitler:

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.
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609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

§Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.
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They never checked Floyd's status. He stopped struggling. They never checked his status. They were told after five and a half minutes by an off duty firefighter to check his pulse. They did not.

 
 Murder (United States law) mentions various categories of murder. Here is a typical hierarchy:
  • First-degree murder: deliberate and planned (premeditated) killing
  • Second-degree murder: deliberate but unplanned (on-the-spot) killing
  • Voluntary manslaughter: impulsive killing
  • Involuntary manslaughter: negligent killing
Notice the various degrees of intention.

Here is what's on the books in Minnesota:

The deliberate vs. impulsive distinction is supported by  Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman. In summary:
  • Impulsive -- System 1: Fast, automatic, frequent, emotional, stereotypic, unconscious
  • Deliberate -- System 2: Slow, effortful, infrequent, logical, calculating, conscious
 
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