Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[Derec]

Read the link to positional asphyxia you idiot.

There was no link.

Does your missing link say anything about how it asphyxiates without impacting speaking ability?

 

[ruby sparks]

“Research has suggested that restraining a person in a face-down position is likely to cause greater restriction of breathing than restraining a person face-up. Multiple cases have been associated with the hogtie or hobble prone restraint position. Many law enforcement and health personnel are now taught to avoid restraining people face-down or to do so only for a very short period of time.”

 

[ruby sparks]

Read the link to positional asphyxia you idiot.

There was no link.

Does your missing link say anything about how it asphyxiates without impacting speaking ability?

See if you can find the link.

 

[ruby sparks]

It is quite possible he meant he was having real trouble breathing.

Obviously, yes.

 

[Derec]

“Research has suggested that restraining a person in a face-down position is likely to cause greater restriction of breathing than restraining a person face-up. Multiple cases have been associated with the hogtie or hobble prone restraint position. Many law enforcement and health personnel are now taught to avoid restraining people face-down or to do so only for a very short period of time.”

Floyd wasn't hogtied. And this (unsourced) passage says nothing about the miraculous ability to restrict breathing while not impacting speaking ability.

How about this link?

Note: The subject’s ability to speak without difficulty indicates that the airway is open, and breathing and circulation are present

Try again, sunshine!

 

[ruby sparks]

”Thank you for taking the time to write this. The phrase "if you can talk, you can breathe" has to be the most infuriating thing I hear when it's obviously wrong when your patient dies shortly after saying "I can't breathe." In these cases, they aren't patients but people in police custody.“

The words of a medic, apparently.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAnd..._pernicious_myth_of_if_you_can_speak_you_can/

 

[Toni]

It is quite possible he meant he was having real trouble breathing.

Given that he died soon afterward, I think that is likely. He wasn't faking, although it would have been (nigh) impossible for the police officers to tell.
However, I do not think that trouble was caused by mechanical airway constriction because otherwise he would have had trouble speaking, which he did not have.

In any case, we are all just pissing in the wind until the autopsy and tox screen are released.

There are a number of things that could have caused Mr. Floyd to feel as though he could not breathe:
A panic attack. However, Mr. Floyd lost consciousness and died so it seems to be more than a panic attack.
An asthma attack. These can be brought on by a number of things, including high levels of stress. This could happen even if it were Mr. Floyd's first asthma attack.
A heart attack. Here are some signs:
Warning Signs of a Heart Attack.
Chest pain.
Body pains.
Sweating.
Fatigue.
Shortness of breath.
Lightheadedness.
Heart palpitations.
Indigestion.

BTW, an asthma attack can precipitate a heart attack.

Mr. Floyd could have had any number of underlying medical conditions. High stress, having his airways constricted by being held by force face down on a street with an adult man's knee and body weight on his neck. Those could easily have exacerbated other underlying conditions.


My husband and one of my kids have asthma. They are still able to speak while having difficulty breathing.

 

[ruby sparks]

“Research has suggested that restraining a person in a face-down position is likely to cause greater restriction of breathing than restraining a person face-up. Multiple cases have been associated with the hogtie or hobble prone restraint position. Many law enforcement and health personnel are now taught to avoid restraining people face-down or to do so only for a very short period of time.”

Floyd wasn't hogtied. And this (unsourced) passage says nothing about the miraculous ability to restrict breathing while not impacting speaking ability.

How about this link?

Note: The subject’s ability to speak without difficulty indicates that the airway is open, and breathing and circulation are present

Try again, sunshine!

Wtf. You’re trying to say he was ‘speaking without difficulty’?

I truly feel sorry for you.

Bye.

 

[Derec]

”Thank you for taking the time to write this. The phrase "if you can talk, you can breathe" has to be the most infuriating thing I hear when it's obviously wrong when your patient dies shortly after saying "I can't breathe." In these cases, they aren't patients but people in police custody.“

The words of a medic, apparently.

If you can talk, you can breathe (i.e. ventilate) because air movement is necessary for talking. But that doesn't mean that respiration is occurring at normal levels.

 

[Derec]

Wtf. You’re trying to say he was ‘speaking without difficulty’?

He sounded pretty normal to me.

 

[Toni]

Trying to get a better contract has nothing to do with hating a union

True. Leftists hate the police union because of whom the union represents - police officers.

You really need to take a chill pill.

I think it's police haters like Joaquin Castro who need to take a chill pill.

Pretty sure you consider me to be very much a leftist.

I like and respect and am grateful for unions.

I like and respect and am grateful for police officers.

I can still abhor abuses of power no matter who is abusing the power.

 

[ruby sparks]

”Thank you for taking the time to write this. The phrase "if you can talk, you can breathe" has to be the most infuriating thing I hear when it's obviously wrong when your patient dies shortly after saying "I can't breathe." In these cases, they aren't patients but people in police custody.“

The words of a medic, apparently.

If you can talk, you can breathe (i.e. ventilate) because air movement is necessary for talking. But that doesn't mean that respiration is occurring at normal levels.

Blah blah blah.

 

[ruby sparks]

Wtf. You’re trying to say he was ‘speaking without difficulty’?

He sounded pretty normal to me.

Hey, good for you.

 

[Derec]

My husband and one of my kids have asthma. They are still able to speak while having difficulty breathing.

Well maybe Floyd had asthma then.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

“Research has suggested that restraining a person in a face-down position is likely to cause greater restriction of breathing than restraining a person face-up. Multiple cases have been associated with the hogtie or hobble prone restraint position. Many law enforcement and health personnel are now taught to avoid restraining people face-down or to do so only for a very short period of time.”

Floyd wasn't hogtied. And this (unsourced) passage says nothing about the miraculous ability to restrict breathing while not impacting speaking ability.

How about this link?

Note: The subject’s ability to speak without difficulty indicates that the airway is open, and breathing and circulation are present

Try again, sunshine!

That link said nothing about the effects of knee-on-neck asphyxia, moonshine.

Try this from Police Mag:

Body Position—Death due to a head-down position with hyper flexion of the neck is a rare event. It is however a critical condition arising out of particular body positions that can lead to mechanical obstruction of respiration. Studies have suggested that restraining a person in a face-down position is likely to cause greater restriction of breathing than restraining a person face-up.
...
Other aspects of how the subject is restrained can also increase the risk of positional asphyxia death. Placing a knee or weight on the subject and particularly any type of restraint hold around the subject’s neck can be problematic. Research measuring the effect of restraint positions on lung function suggests that restraint that involves bending the restrained person or placing body weight on them has a greater effect on breathing than face-down positioning alone.
...
In-custody death is one of the great tragedies in law enforcement and one of the most common causes is positional asphyxia. To reduce the risk of positional asphyxia, the use of maximal face-down position restraint techniques should be avoided.

And then there's this (emphasis mine):

When officer Derek Chauvin pressed his knee to George Floyd’s neck Monday night, he used a restraint once taught by the department that is no longer sanctioned by most Minnesota law enforcement agencies.

Floyd died after complaining that he couldn’t breathe while being restrained.

The maneuver, billed as a means to gain control of a thrashing suspect, requires pressure on the side of an individual’s neck.

At Hennepin Technical College, which trains about half of Minnesota’s police officers, students were taught to use a form of the technique until at least 2016, said Mylan Masson, a longtime Minneapolis police officer and former director of the college’s law enforcement and criminal justice education center.

“Once the [officer] is in control, then you release,” Masson said. “That’s what use of force is: You use it till the threat has stopped.”
...
The Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association commended Chief Medaria Arradondo on his “swift action” in firing the four officers.

“The actions of the former officers depicted in the video are in stark contrast to the values the chief has worked to instill,” the organization said in a statement.

The video of Floyd’s arrest sparked criticism, with veteran law officers questioning why the arresting officer did not lift his knee off Floyd’s neck, despite his pleas and those of bystanders.
...
But he said that putting a knee on a neck is not a police academy technique because of the risk. Arteries run along each side of the neck. Compression can cut off blood to the brain, causing brain death in a few minutes

So, asphyxia is technically not the right term and/or may not be applicable:

Mechanical compression with blood vessels in the neck causes a reduction in oxygenation of the brain, leading to cerebral hypoxia/ischaemia, anaerobic metabolism, and acidaemia/acidosis (similar to the effects of cardiac arrest on the brain (Longstreth 2001).

The term “asphyxia” is commonly used in the forensic literature to describe this sequence, but it is not a term used in clinical practice, except in relation to “birth asphyxia”, a situation that has also been criticised (Depp 1995).

The term “asphyxia” - literally meaning without a pulse - should be avoided, according to the Goudge Inquiry (Goudge 2008), as it is too unspecific a term.

Alternative mechanisms of death following pressure to the neck include some form of neurologically-mediated cardiac arrest, stimulated by mechanical compression of neck structures such as the carotid sinus, and carotid body.

Note that it can cause death without impacting the larynx (which is what would effect speech). Iow, he could have been having trouble breathing--and was slowly dying at the same time--yet still be able to speak. Just look at the photo again:



The officer's knee is directly restricting Floyd's right carotid artery.

 

[Derec]

That link said nothing about the effects of knee-on-neck asphyxia,

It's still a fact that he could speak (relatively) normally, so his airway/breathing wasn't restricted.

Maybe he had trouble respirating due to drugs or a hearth attack. No blood flow, and blood does not get oxygenated.

moonshine

Just hold the heads and tails!

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Why is Derec always defending non-black people who kill black people?

 

[ZiprHead]

”Thank you for taking the time to write this. The phrase "if you can talk, you can breathe" has to be the most infuriating thing I hear when it's obviously wrong when your patient dies shortly after saying "I can't breathe." In these cases, they aren't patients but people in police custody.“

The words of a medic, apparently.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAnd..._pernicious_myth_of_if_you_can_speak_you_can/

The full post:

Thank you for taking the time to write this. The phrase "if you can talk, you can breathe" has to be the most infuriating thing I hear when it's obviously wrong when your patient dies shortly after saying "I can't breathe." In these cases, they aren't patients but people in police custody.

If I could make a quick suggestion for an addition / edit.

Part of this myth comes from low-level first aid classes, specifically when dealing with foreign body airway obstructions (choking). The phrase "if they can speak, they can breathe" is supposed to mean that as long as they're able to speak, they have some portion of their airway available to them and it dictates how you approach that patient. When they stop speaking, they stop breathing.

That is the only context where that phrase is meant to apply in reality. But people take that low level class and suddenly think they're experts on airway anatomy, physiology, and management...and then apply it everywhere.

As a medical professional, it pains me to see these myths perpetuated because these are the easiest deaths to prevent when you catch signs/symptoms in a timely manner. And it's so incredibly upsetting that so many of us have been fighting an uphill battle against people who have no idea what they're talking about, but still having the capability to control the conversation and command respect on subjects they aren't educated in.

Wow, seems like this person has met Derec.

 

[Derec]

George Floyd, man killed in Minneapolis police encounter, had started new life in Minnesota

At 6 feet, 6 inches, Floyd emerged as a star tight end for Jack Yates High School and played in the 1992 state championship game in the Houston Astrodome. Yates lost to Temple, 38-20. Donnell Cooper, one of Floyd's former classmates, said he remembered watching Floyd score touchdowns. Floyd towered over everyone and earned the nickname "gentle giant."

Not another one of those!

Floyd was charged in 2007 with armed robbery in a home invasion in Houston and in 2009 was sentenced to five years in prison as part of a plea deal, according to court documents.

Here we go again!

 

[Derec]

Why is Derec always defending non-black people who kill black people?

Since the cause of death hasn't been released, we do not know that anybody killed Floyd.

Note also that if George Floyd was a white man, this would have been local Minnesota news, and would not have exploded internationally.