Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[lpetrich]

Someone composed a picture that announced the 2nd-degree-murder charges and Instagrammed it: Tamika D. Mallory on Instagram: “MN Attorney General has increased charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree murder and now ALL the officers have been charged and arrested in the murder of #GeorgeFloyd. We do not yet know what the other 3 have been charged with. This is NOT enough, we need CONVICTIONS. Do not let anyone tell you that protest and organizing does not work. It works. Stay loud. This is a marathon folks, stay focused. We are winning, together. We are feeling grateful for all the organizers, protesters, organizations and supporters in every corner of this country - especially our Minneapolis fam. George Floyd’s murder will not be in vain. Back to work. The officers who murdered #BreonnaTaylor still have not been arrested or charged.”


some are posting on social media
some are protesting in the streets
some are donating silently
some are educating themselves
some are having tough conversations with friends & family

a revolution has many lanes -- be kind to yourself and to others who are traveling in the same direction

just keep your foot on the gas

VIOLA DAVIS on Instagram: “Radical change can take place in homes, in schools, in boardrooms, voting booths, etc... 401 yrs of systemic racism needs a comprehensive array of radical revolutionary intervention. ❤
@octaviaspencer”


Left Voice on Instagram: “Shops in Manhattan are boarding up their storefronts. But workers doing the job show their solidarity with the protests, using the planks to echo the chants.
The ruling class divides and oppresses the working class over the work, but we fight back with solidarity.”

 

[lpetrich]

Looking at these categories, I'm concerned that the prosecutors may not be able to make a good case for second-degree murder -- deliberate but unplanned homicide. At the very least they ought to charge Officer Derek Chauvin with manslaughter -- negligent homicide. That is because DC's lawyer may argue that his client had no idea that he was going to kill George Floyd, that all his client wanted to do is knock out GF so that he would be less troublesome.

I'm trying to think like some sleazy lawyer.

I think that the prosecution ought to have negligent homicide as a fallback charge.

 

[ZiprHead]

35 Pics Showing The Other Side Of The George Floyd Protests That The Mainstream Media Is Reluctant To Share

 

[TSwizzle]

Fake news.

 

[Deepak]

Looking at these categories, I'm concerned that the prosecutors may not be able to make a good case for second-degree murder -- deliberate but unplanned homicide. At the very least they ought to charge Officer Derek Chauvin with manslaughter -- negligent homicide. That is because DC's lawyer may argue that his client had no idea that he was going to kill George Floyd, that all his client wanted to do is knock out GF so that he would be less troublesome.

I'm trying to think like some sleazy lawyer.

I think that the prosecution ought to have negligent homicide as a fallback charge.

This is always an included lesser charge for a murder offense

 

[J842P]

Looking at these categories, I'm concerned that the prosecutors may not be able to make a good case for second-degree murder -- deliberate but unplanned homicide. At the very least they ought to charge Officer Derek Chauvin with manslaughter -- negligent homicide. That is because DC's lawyer may argue that his client had no idea that he was going to kill George Floyd, that all his client wanted to do is knock out GF so that he would be less troublesome.

I'm trying to think like some sleazy lawyer.

I think that the prosecution ought to have negligent homicide as a fallback charge.

This is always an included lesser charge for a murder offense

Doesn't that depend on the particulars of state law?

 

[Arctish]

Looking at these categories, I'm concerned that the prosecutors may not be able to make a good case for second-degree murder -- deliberate but unplanned homicide. At the very least they ought to charge Officer Derek Chauvin with manslaughter -- negligent homicide. That is because DC's lawyer may argue that his client had no idea that he was going to kill George Floyd, that all his client wanted to do is knock out GF so that he would be less troublesome.

I'm trying to think like some sleazy lawyer.

I think that the prosecution ought to have negligent homicide as a fallback charge.

I agree the prosecution ought to have negligent homicide as a fallback charge. But there's probably case law that supports the second-degree murder charge. It could be that disregard for the suffering of a victim was determined to be an aggravating factor in a previous case and can be used to support the more serious charges in this one.

Chauvin knelt on Floyd's neck for a very long time. He was repeatedly reminded by bystanders that what he was doing was dangerous and that Floyd wasn't fighting. He appeared to be intentionally causing extreme suffering and distress, and then disregarded the people saying he should check Floyd's pulse. Whatever that was all about, it wasn't a momentary flash of anger or frustration. Chauvin had plenty of time to reconsider his decision to crush the resistance out of a man who wasn't resisting.

 

[Deepak]

Looking at these categories, I'm concerned that the prosecutors may not be able to make a good case for second-degree murder -- deliberate but unplanned homicide. At the very least they ought to charge Officer Derek Chauvin with manslaughter -- negligent homicide. That is because DC's lawyer may argue that his client had no idea that he was going to kill George Floyd, that all his client wanted to do is knock out GF so that he would be less troublesome.

I'm trying to think like some sleazy lawyer.

I think that the prosecution ought to have negligent homicide as a fallback charge.

This is always an included lesser charge for a murder offense

Doesn't that depend on the particulars of state law?

I can't vouch for, say, West Virginia, but I've never read any case where it ever ended up being an issue. A judge will issue an instruction to the jury even if the prosecutor doesn't explicitly request it. It would be perverse to let a criminal go free in a capital offense because of absentmindedness by the prosecutor when the facts of the case support a conviction. Other offenses don't work this way.

IANAL; YMMV

 

[ruby sparks]

I apologize if I misunderstood the following from your earlier post:

I would not be surprised if some of it, possibly even much of it, was due to non-racist factors, and/or factors that the black communities need to address or at least acknowledge themselves

So, how did you mean that statement?

Regarding the first part, I meant that some of the explanation for tougher policing methods is that they are, as far as I am aware, policing tougher neighbourhoods (ie where there is more crime and more anti-authoritarian sentiment). I'm allowing for the fact that part of the reason they are tougher is to do with structural racism factors, especially historic ones, so I was in that case mainly referring to the racism (or lack of it) of police currently involved.

Regarding the second, even Obama, I believe, essentially asked black communities to take more responsibility for their situation, and it's something I've heard said by some black leaders and academics also. What John McWhorter (a black, atheist, democrat-supporting, pro-black, American commentator) has to say springs to mind.

 

[Derec]

Chauvin knelt on Floyd's neck for a very long time. He was repeatedly reminded by bystanders that what he was doing was dangerous and that Floyd wasn't fighting. He appeared to be intentionally causing extreme suffering and distress, and then disregarded the people saying he should check Floyd's pulse. Whatever that was all about, it wasn't a momentary flash of anger or frustration. Chauvin had plenty of time to reconsider his decision to crush the resistance out of a man who wasn't resisting.

I think what is most damning is that apparently Floyd was in the police car but then was dragged out again. If that is true, 3rd degree "depraved heart" should be a slam dunk.
I don't think 2nd degree will happen, unless the jury just disregards the language of the law.

 

[ruby sparks]

35 Pics Showing The Other Side Of The George Floyd Protests That The Mainstream Media Is Reluctant To Share

Thanks for posting. It's good to see that stuff.

 

[Derec]

Someone composed a picture that announced the 2nd-degree-murder charges and Instagrammed it: Tamika D. Mallory on Instagram:

Tamika Maollory? That anti-white racist and antisemite who supports Nation of Islam and Louis Farrakhan? Really?

“MN Attorney General has increased charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree murder and now ALL the officers have been charged and arrested in the murder of #GeorgeFloyd. We do not yet know what the other 3 have been charged with. This is NOT enough, we need CONVICTIONS. Do not let anyone tell you that protest and organizing does not work.

Convictions should only happen as a result of due process of law and only if guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. NOT because a bunch of people protested (and rioted, and looted) and organized. That is antithetical to the criminal justice system.

What people like Mallory want is that people they deem undesirable be convicted because they are deemed undesirable, with the trial nothing but a formality. In other words, she wants Soviet Union or Nazi Germany courts.

a revolution has many lanes -- be kind to yourself and to others who are traveling in the same direction

just keep your foot on the gas

VIOLA DAVIS on Instagram: “Radical change can take place in homes, in schools, in boardrooms, voting booths, etc... 401 yrs of systemic racism needs a comprehensive array of radical revolutionary intervention.

These people are not after justice. They are after revolution (which means doing away with the present order). They want radical change.

The ruling class divides and oppresses the working class over the work, but we fight back with solidarity.”

Sounds like some commie shit to me.

 

[lpetrich]

Dan Friedman on Twitter: "Asked who they’re with, these guys say only that they’re with “The Department of Justice.” https://t.co/ciVDtP8ndk" / Twitter - with a picture of some soldiers near a Federal building in DC.

Dan Friedman on Twitter: "These guys said they’re with “the federal government.” https://t.co/qOWdj23zJw" / Twitter - some more

Senator Jeff Merkley on Twitter: "This picture really troubles me. Armed forces in the nation’s capital, appearing to have been stripped of all badges and name tags—making them totally unaccountable to the people—is something I’d expect to see from a dictatorship, not a democracy." / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | Tom Cotton: Send In the Military - The New York Times - "The nation must restore order. The military stands ready."
then
Ida Bae Wells on Twitter: "I’ll probably get in trouble for this, but to not say something would be immoral. As a black woman, as a journalist, as an American, I am deeply ashamed that we ran this. https://t.co/lU1KmhH2zH" / Twitter

Brian Schatz on Twitter: "The New York Times is gonna both sides the fascism so I guess that’s good to know. Anyway we got Mattis so that was good. Let’s win the Senate. Hang in there everyone." / Twitter


Josh Fox BlackLivesMatter on Twitter: "People stuck in traffic are witnessing NYPD beat up folks on their way home. https://t.co/AkUGPQQOIf" / Twitter

People stuck in traffic are witnessing NYPD beat up folks on their way home.

This was sent to me by a friend of the women in the car, @tommiesunshine. Stuck in traffic for nearly an hour on 50th street and third Ave.

An 8pm curfew means that the @NYCMayor just took away all the income and wages of everyone who works past 8pm. Which is half this city. I’m sure that’s a greater loss of money than any looting in nyc.

There is no way that #NYC will abide or survive an 8pm curfew. It’s a recipe for total disaster. It will lead to more violence and more unrest.

The @NYCMayor needs to go to @barclayscenter with the heads of city council and sit down with the leaders of #BlackLivesMatter ASAP

We need a fundamental overhaul of the #NYPD. And we need a fundamental overhaul of #NYC.

We need economic, racial and environmental justice in this city. It is long overdue.

Bill- come out from hiding and listen to us. We need to reshape this city.

It is so sad. I was born in New York City. We used to innovate and lead.

Now we are fodder for Wall Street hatchet men and violent white supremacists.

We need to take back this city.

We can do it.

I actually think we are doing it. Right now. I don’t think these protests are going away. Summer just started. This is just getting started.

then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Horrifying. You start with the tiny possibility that two officers may be walking over to deescalate the abusive one
Instead, they join in beating a man trying to get out of traffic.
This isn’t a problem of bad apples or incidents. This is an institutional and systemic crisis." / Twitter

 

[Derec]

I guess that will be for a jury to decide.

Unless Chauvin or one of the others opts for a bench trial.
Remember that some of the cops in the Freddie Grey case did that.

I think it's predictable. For one thing, it is known that a small number of people in Minneapolis and I suspect other cities as well started the violence and destruction. Not peaceful protesters.

Relatively small numbers can still wreak a lot of havoc. Very few people in our society are murderers, but they still do irreparable damage to man
But that doesn't answer the question of whether you support it or not.

Perhaps off duty police officers, although St. Paul has denied that the man recorded breaking the first windows is a police officer.

There is no evidence that it is, other than some randos on Twitter saying they look vaguely alike.

Definitely people from out of state who began the destruction.

Most people who have been arrested have been local.

Definitely people driving into neighborhoods, changing their out of state license plates for Minnesota plates--I know this for an absolute fact.

And how do you know that? Twitter?

These are not just protests. They are out pourings of profound grief. One of the stages of grief is anger, according to Kubler Ross. But since ancient times, people have engaged in rending their garments (Keriah) and other destructive and self destructive acts as extreme expressions of grief.

Please. 99.999% of the protesters and rioters would not have known Floyd from Adam before his death. What grief?

Or seen another way: The state sanctioned officers who are charged with serving and protecting the people instead took George Floyd's life--and the lives of too many other innocent, unarmed people. The state, through it's police officers, violated the social contract. Protest, destruction of property, and even violence is a logical response, even if we abhor the destruction of property and the violence.

It's not logical response to somebody you don't even know getting killed - especially since the guy already got charged by the time the riots started.
And as to "lives of too many other innocent, unarmed people" - vast majority of police shootings have been justified. Most had a gun or some other lethal weapon.
Even unarmed people can be dangerous if they attack you as they can gain control of their gun. There have been many cases of perps shooting cops in such circumstances - would it not have been better if the cop had shot the perp first, even if the perp was technically unarmed then?

It's not a non sequitor. If the police can kill a man in broad daylight, in front of people begging them to stop, recording them killing the man, then any one of us can be the person on the ground, a knee in our neck.

The chances of that are extremely remote. 16 million or so arrests each year, a bit over 1000 police killings, and that includes the majority of the cases where the perp was armed.
Even if we assume 160 unjustified killings (I think it's less), that's still a 0.001% chance that your arrest will end with you being killed with no justification.

After all, you engage in criminal activity.

Ah here we go again!

I realize that you view your particular criminal activity as being 'victimless' and activity that should not be illegal but still, it is criminal activity.

It IS victimless, and it SHOULD NOT be illegal. It is more akin to gay men having sex before Lawrence than a guy passing out phony bills.

I'm not writing this to criticize your activities.

Yes you are. You always do it. Every time we discuss some murderer, or robber or any sort of serious criminal, you or one of your confederates has to pipe it with "but you sometimes hire hookers". What a weak piece of whataboutism!

I'm trying to get you to realize that this could be YOU.

Very unlikely.

It should not be you. It should not have been George Floyd.

I agree, on both counts. Doesn't mean it was intentional though.
And also, it should not have been the Target store. Or the 3rd precinct. Or the Visitor Center at Atlanta's Centennial Olympic Park. Or the Don Frisco Grille in Buckhead. or the upscale jewlery and fashion stores at Lenox Mall . Or that car dealership in California. Or those cop cars hit by molotovs in NYC, one of them by a couple of lawyers. Or that police officer mowed down by an ATV in Atlanta. Or that cops mowed down by an SUV in Buffalo. Or that police officer shot in the head in Las Vegas.

Or Filandro Castile.

The cop there was charged but acquitted. Juries are unpredictable - a major drawback of the jury system, as justice should not be a lottery.

Or Tamir Rice.

A tragedy all around, with plenty of blame to pass around, but he WAS in possession of a realistic looking replica firearm.

Murder is not a justified police action.

No, but very few police shootings are murder. Example of one would be Johnathan Edwards. But not Mario Woods, Michael Brown, Tyre King, Darius Smith, Jayson Negron, Quanice Hayes and many other being called "murder" by activists, or in the case of St. Michael Brown, by two sitting Senators and former presidential candidates (to wit Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris).

 

[Shobha]

The protests are widespread for a few reasons.

1) Black poverty is widespread. Apparently centuries of repression couldn't be resolved in just a few decades. Some people like to blame blacks for the crime and violence (generalized, not about the protests)... and yes, there is no excuse for crime and violence... it is an indicator of poverty, not race. Much like how blacks die from cancers more often than whites or that blacks are dying more often from COVID-19 than whites. People think blacks are more susceptible to COVID-19 as well as committing crime? No... it's the poverty.

2) Systemic bias is widespread. While there is racism, I think that systemic bias is the much bigger problem, ie playing the odds. Some black guy trying to force his way into a nice home... must be a robber, not a professor at Harvard. Or these nice white guys say the black guy lunged at them, and him being black and them being white, this is a viable explanation from people that'd go to prison if they admitted to reckless actions that caused a death.

3) No one is listening... is widespread. We've seen the videos of evidence being planted, officers needlessly shooting, etc... This stuff has been alleged for a while. And this particular case, the officer had lots of complaints against him... but no one listened to those complaining, and because of that, someone is dead. People are tired of being ignored across the country. And the culture in the Police needs adjusting.

Exactly !! Socioeconomic status is the variable, not race !

 

[ruby sparks]

The protests are widespread for a few reasons.

1) Black poverty is widespread. Apparently centuries of repression couldn't be resolved in just a few decades. Some people like to blame blacks for the crime and violence (generalized, not about the protests)... and yes, there is no excuse for crime and violence... it is an indicator of poverty, not race. Much like how blacks die from cancers more often than whites or that blacks are dying more often from COVID-19 than whites. People think blacks are more susceptible to COVID-19 as well as committing crime? No... it's the poverty.

2) Systemic bias is widespread. While there is racism, I think that systemic bias is the much bigger problem, ie playing the odds. Some black guy trying to force his way into a nice home... must be a robber, not a professor at Harvard. Or these nice white guys say the black guy lunged at them, and him being black and them being white, this is a viable explanation from people that'd go to prison if they admitted to reckless actions that caused a death.

3) No one is listening... is widespread. We've seen the videos of evidence being planted, officers needlessly shooting, etc... This stuff has been alleged for a while. And this particular case, the officer had lots of complaints against him... but no one listened to those complaining, and because of that, someone is dead. People are tired of being ignored across the country. And the culture in the Police needs adjusting.

Exactly !! Socioeconomic status is the variable, not race !

I reckon they’re both variables, and inter-related.

For example, because of historical racial unfairnesses, there is a legacy element to black poverty.

 

[Shobha]

Please. 99.999% of the protesters and rioters would not have known Floyd from Adam before his death. What grief?

When you see a poor defenseless man die a horrible death, because of the subconscious bias, racism and bigotry of police officers, you feel grief, even though you don't know the victim, or the offender.
Human beings have empathy (or are supposed to, anyway!) We can feel immense grief, sadness and anger over terrible injustice, whichever corner of the world we live in, and whether or not we know the victims, or are related to the victims ! We can all EMPATHIZE.

 

[blastula]

How do people figure this warrants a second-degree murder trial? Under subd. 1 (1)?

That's not the charge here. It's 609.19.2(1).

 

[blastula]

Don't know if this has been posted, but this is a good rundown of the available video and documents when it was posted.

[YOUTUBE]vksEJR9EPQ8[/YOUTUBE]

Looking at the 911 call, the autopsy report and the charging documents, the defense will probably mainly rely on the fact that he was visibly impaired and the autopsy report results for fentanyl and heart disease. But I don't think any of that should mitigate their culpability, since you didn't need to see his medical history to be concerned that he was in mdical trouble from being held down like that.