Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[lpetrich]

Man drives into Seattle George Floyd protest, shoots one protester - "A 27-year-old man was taken to the hospital after being shot, police said."

The protest was one of many demonstrations nationwide sparked by the death of Floyd, the African American man who was killed May 25 while in police custody in Minneapolis. Although protesters clashed with police in Seattle, most demonstrations elsewhere over the weekend — including a gathering of thousands at the nation's capital — were peaceful.

The shift in tone followed many demonstrations that took ugly turns with incidents of arson, assault and looting, leading some cities to impose curfews. At least 10,000 people have been arrested in relation to the protests, according to tracking by The Associated Press.

Rayshard Brooks marked daughter's 8th birthday before police shot him

 

[Derec]

Rayshard Brooks marked daughter's 8th birthday before police shot him

Wrong thread, but why is it relevant that he had unprotected sex 8 years and 9 months before?
And knowing his daughter had her birthday, why did he act a fool like he did?

 

[Derec]

It implies killing because you decided you wanted to do it.

Exactly! Since there was no intent to kill, there was no decision to want to kill either, and thus the term does not apply.

 

[Derec]

First of all, there was no acute meth and/or fentanyl intoxication.

The autopsy said otherwise.

Secondly, sufficient numbers of people have died being restrained by having an officer's knee on their neck that the practice was widely discouraged or outright banned.

What is the fraction of deadly outcomes relative to all such restraints and what fraction of the deadly outcomes are linked to serious health conditions (Floyd had several coronary arteries that were 70%-90% blocked) and drug use?

Secondly, as a sworn officer, Chauvin had knowledge or a duty to be informed about the dangers of such a maneuver, particularly when the restrained person was laying prone on his back, quiet, with his hands cuffed behind him and 3 other officers near by, sometimes also on top of Floyd.

Should Chauvin and others have done it? No, of course not. But was it 2nd degree murder? I think that was a political charge by the radical leftist attorney general.

 

[repoman]

Depending on his tolerance level he may or may not have been in the fentanyl danger zone.

 

[Jarhyn]

It implies killing because you decided you wanted to do it.

Exactly! Since there was no intent to kill, there was no decision to want to kill either, and thus the term does not apply.

He looked absolutely placid. But "it" doesn't necessarily have to be "killing". "It" here can be any of a number of felonies including assault. There will be a discussion on qualified immunity, but being immune because of a bad law does not mean he didn't do it in cold blood. And either way, he still has third degree murder charges, which merely require a depraved act to have been performed, which it most certainly was. Qualified immunity only makes immune actions reasonably necessary in the name of duty, but no duty exists to commit depraved acts.

 

[TV and credit cards]

It implies killing because you decided you wanted to do it.

Exactly! Since there was no intent to kill, there was no decision to want to kill either, and thus the term does not apply.

He looked absolutely placid. But "it" doesn't necessarily have to be "killing". "It" here can be any of a number of felonies including assault. There will be a discussion on qualified immunity, but being immune because of a bad law does not mean he didn't do it in cold blood. And either way, he still has third degree murder charges, which merely require a depraved act to have been performed, which it most certainly was. Qualified immunity only makes immune actions reasonably necessary in the name of duty, but no duty exists to commit depraved acts.

Bold: In qualified immunity, the prosecution has to get over the "Clearly Established Law" requirement. They have to show case law that closely resembles the facts of this case. It's the hurdle that can rarely be overcome so case law is never established in the first place.
Hopefully the Supreme Court will soon be revisiting this doctrine made up by a previous SC.

 

[atrib]

The world saw a helpless man lying on the ground getting killed by the police in cold blood,

"In cold blood" implies premeditation, which is not given here. There wasn't even intent, as what Chauvin did only turned deadly because of Floyd's medical condition and acute meth and fentanyl intoxication.

Wrong. In cold blood implies a lack of emotion. For much of the time Chavin was asphyxiating Mr Floyd, he (Chavin) had his hands in his pockets, and a look on his face that appeared disconnected with the violence he was perpetrating. Certainly not the actions of someone who fears for his life or any kind of violence from the man he was killing.

You are also wrong about the cause of Mr Floyd's death. Both coroners ruled Mr Floyd's death a homicide. Mr Floyd died because the police exerted excessive and completely unnecessary force to restrain him, and did so for almost 3 minutes after Mr Floyd had become unresponsive. One of the police officers told Chauvin that he could not find Mr Floyd's pulse, and recommended that they turn him over on his side so he could breathe. Two times. Chauvin ignored this recommendation both times, and only relented when the paramedic arrived and asked him to move so they could examine Mr Floyd, who was likely dead at this point. Mr Floyd did not die of a drug overdose or a medical condition, he was killed by the police in broad daylight in front of multiple witnesses, and the whole world got to see it happen on YouTube. And if you could set your prejudice aside for a minute, you would see it as it actually happened. The way the whole world sees it. The way many police officers see it, who have come out to state in public that they believe the police murdered Mr Floyd. Your prejudiced ideology is outdated and has no place in the modern world.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm not justifying it, I'm explaining why it happens and how to avoid it. You can try to avoid things that shouldn't exist in the first place!

The world saw a helpless man lying on the ground getting killed by the police in cold blood, and people came out to protest on the streets despite a raging pandemic. All over the world. And you are here telling us that this could have been the victim's fault, that the victim could have done something to prevent his death, that we should expect our police to act with brutality and violence, and take steps to avoid it the best we can. You express no outrage at the conduct of the police officers involved in this killing, dismissing it casually as something that police do. Instead, you blame the victim. Wow.

You're so focused on blame you're not seeing what I'm saying.

Two years ago a woman didn't look and totaled my car. I came through with nothing more than a pulled muscle because I was wearing my seat belt. Yes, she should have looked, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't wear my seat belt to minimize the harm from such situations.

 

[DBT]

Kneeling on someones neck while they are helpless on the ground and you have ample backup is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a reasonable thing to do.

 

[repoman]

What is about as dangerous as police misconduct like what Chauvin did is what can happen in jail from guards and inmates.

So the cops are dealing with guys who want to avoid that. Tough job for good cops but also a good job for bully cops.

Asshole cops direct later violent revenge on nice cops by brutalized suspects who hold a grudge.

But also media and entertainment can feed cop hatred.

 

[Toni]

The autopsy said otherwise.

Finding something in a person's system is not the same thing as acute intoxication.

What is the fraction of deadly outcomes relative to all such restraints and what fraction of the deadly outcomes are linked to serious health conditions (Floyd had several coronary arteries that were 70%-90% blocked) and drug use?

What the fuck difference does it make? Police do not have access to anybody's medical history or a list of their current medical conditions. The responsibility therefore belongs to the police to exercise all due caution. It isn't as though Floyd dropped dead of fright because the police said they were arresting him. No--he died, begging for his life with a full grown man's full weight upon his neck. FFS Derec. What if that were you on the ground?

Should Chauvin and others have done it? No, of course not. But was it 2nd degree murder? I think that was a political charge by the radical leftist attorney general.

Thank you for at least admitting that Chauvin acted inappropriately.

Chauvin was initially charged with 3rd degree murder. It did get increased to 2nd Degree murder. I'm not an attorney but it seems to me that, to quote Law and Order, Chauvin demonstrated callous indifference to life.

 

[Derec]

Finding something in a person's system is not the same thing as acute intoxication.

So possible acute intoxication, but certainly he was an addict.

What the fuck difference does it make? Police do not have access to anybody's medical history or a list of their current medical conditions. The responsibility therefore belongs to the police to exercise all due caution. It isn't as though Floyd dropped dead of fright because the police said they were arresting him. No--he died, begging for his life with a full grown man's full weight upon his neck. FFS Derec. What if that were you on the ground?

My point was that his medical condition significantly contributed to the deadly outcome. A healthy 46 year old would most likely not have died under the circumstances.

Thank you for at least admitting that Chauvin acted inappropriately.

I calls them as I sees them. No more, no less.

Chauvin was initially charged with 3rd degree murder. It did get increased to 2nd Degree murder. I'm not an attorney but it seems to me that, to quote Law and Order, Chauvin demonstrated callous indifference to life.

That's 3rd degree, and for that I think the prosecutor would have to prove that Chauvin would have to have known that there is a significant likelihood of death.
Proving 2nd degree will be even more difficult.

But most difficult would be to find an impartial jury. The trial will likely have to be moved outside the county.

 

[ZiprHead]

So possible acute intoxication, but certainly he was an addict.

One known incident of drug use does not qualify as addiction.

Thank you for at least admitting that Chauvin acted inappropriately.

I calls them as I sees them. No more, no less.

Your sight is severely shaded by your bigotry.

 

[atrib]

I'm not justifying it, I'm explaining why it happens and how to avoid it. You can try to avoid things that shouldn't exist in the first place!

The world saw a helpless man lying on the ground getting killed by the police in cold blood, and people came out to protest on the streets despite a raging pandemic. All over the world. And you are here telling us that this could have been the victim's fault, that the victim could have done something to prevent his death, that we should expect our police to act with brutality and violence, and take steps to avoid it the best we can. You express no outrage at the conduct of the police officers involved in this killing, dismissing it casually as something that police do. Instead, you blame the victim. Wow.

You're so focused on blame you're not seeing what I'm saying.

Two years ago a woman didn't look and totaled my car. I came through with nothing more than a pulled muscle because I was wearing my seat belt. Yes, she should have looked, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't wear my seat belt to minimize the harm from such situations.

No magic seatbelt would have saved Mr Floyd. He pleaded for his life and told the police 17 times he could not breathe, but they still killed him. The solution to the problem of police brutality is NOT meek and humble acquiescence, it is reform. And if we have to protest in the streets for days and weeks to bring about this reform, and elect representatives who support such reform, then that is what we do. Bowing down to police tyranny is NOT an acceptable outcome. You are so focused on defending the rogue police that kill and brutalize people that you don't even see what the real problem is.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Kneeling on someones neck while they are helpless on the ground and you have ample backup is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a reasonable thing to do.

Particularly when your backup is also kneeling on them.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Supreme Court takes a pass on revisiting Qualified Immunity. Strange bedfellows, Clarence Thomas and Sonia Sotomayor had been pushing for this but it looks like a no-go for now. I don't know if even this will protect Chauvin from the egregious act of violence he committed upon Floyd but if it does, stand by. Shit's gonna get ugly real fast.

Unless of course our other two branches of government dial back police rights to brutalize.
Just kidding. We know that ain't gonna happen.

 

[Emily Lake]

So the death of Tony Timpa is evidence of systemic racism against white men? Just trying to understand the double standard when the facts are the same.

Claim: There is systemic bias in policing and the justice system against black people

Supporting Evidence: Well researched and materially different rates of stops, searches, charges, and sentencing; materially different average length of sentencing; materially lower rates of warnings, fines, and community service sentences for black people committing comparable crimes to white people.

Counter argument: This one white guy got killed by the cops

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just because you managed to roll snake-eyes once doesn't mean that the odds are the same as rolling two dice for a total of seven.

 

[Emily Lake]

I'm not justifying it, I'm explaining why it happens and how to avoid it. You can try to avoid things that shouldn't exist in the first place!

What is it that you think Floyd should have avoided? Or what is it that you think shouldn't exist?

 

[Emily Lake]

The world saw a helpless man lying on the ground getting killed by the police in cold blood,

"In cold blood" implies premeditation, which is not given here. There wasn't even intent, as what Chauvin did only turned deadly because of Floyd's medical condition and acute meth and fentanyl intoxication.

I don't think "cold blood" necessarily implies premeditation. I think it would also imply careless disregard... which I think was amply demonstrated.

As to your second point... it's just dumb. A perfectly healthy and fit person would have died after HAVING THEIR AIR CHOKED OFF FOR NINE MINUTES.