Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm not justifying it, I'm explaining why it happens and how to avoid it. You can try to avoid things that shouldn't exist in the first place!

The world saw a helpless man lying on the ground getting killed by the police in cold blood, and people came out to protest on the streets despite a raging pandemic. All over the world. And you are here telling us that this could have been the victim's fault, that the victim could have done something to prevent his death, that we should expect our police to act with brutality and violence, and take steps to avoid it the best we can. You express no outrage at the conduct of the police officers involved in this killing, dismissing it casually as something that police do. Instead, you blame the victim. Wow.

You're so focused on blame you're not seeing what I'm saying.

Two years ago a woman didn't look and totaled my car. I came through with nothing more than a pulled muscle because I was wearing my seat belt. Yes, she should have looked, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't wear my seat belt to minimize the harm from such situations.

Floyd is still the victim of being killed. Floyd doesn't seem to make things easy for the Officers, and yeah, that isn't being nice. But it seems with some officers, there is only escalation, no goal of deescalation.

 

[Trausti]

So the death of Tony Timpa is evidence of systemic racism against white men? Just trying to understand the double standard when the facts are the same.

Claim: There is systemic bias in policing and the justice system against black people

Supporting Evidence: Well researched and materially different rates of stops, searches, charges, and sentencing; materially different average length of sentencing; materially lower rates of warnings, fines, and community service sentences for black people committing comparable crimes to white people.

Counter argument: This one white guy got killed by the cops

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just because you managed to roll snake-eyes once doesn't mean that the odds are the same as rolling two dice for a total of seven.

Ya know, the actual stats don’t actually support that. In 2019, nine unarmed black males we killed by police. Compared to 19 white males. And young black males commit a disproportionate amount of crime; nearly all the gun homicides in NYC for example. Obviously, the more a group participates in criminal activity, the more contact with law enforcement.

 

[Trausti]

So the death of Tony Timpa is evidence of systemic racism against white men? Just trying to understand the double standard when the facts are the same.

Claim: There is systemic bias in policing and the justice system against black people

Supporting Evidence: Well researched and materially different rates of stops, searches, charges, and sentencing; materially different average length of sentencing; materially lower rates of warnings, fines, and community service sentences for black people committing comparable crimes to white people.

Counter argument: This one white guy got killed by the cops

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just because you managed to roll snake-eyes once doesn't mean that the odds are the same as rolling two dice for a total of seven.

Ya know, the actual stats don’t actually support that. In 2019, nine unarmed black males we killed by police. Compared to 19 white males. And young black males commit a disproportionate amount of crime; nearly all the gun homicides in NYC for example. Obviously, the more a group participates in criminal activity, the more contact with law enforcement.

Having looked at the 2019 stats for NYC, it’s closer to 60% black, 30% hispanic, and 7% asian/white for homicide offenders. Unsurprisingly, blacks and hispanics are victimized the most at ~90%. Yet the narrative is that cops are the problem.

 

[Trausti]

Ya know, the actual stats don’t actually support that. In 2019, nine unarmed black males we killed by police. Compared to 19 white males. And young black males commit a disproportionate amount of crime; nearly all the gun homicides in NYC for example. Obviously, the more a group participates in criminal activity, the more contact with law enforcement.

Having looked at the 2019 stats for NYC, it’s closer to 60% black, 30% hispanic, and 7% asian/white for homicide offenders. Unsurprisingly, blacks and hispanics are victimized the most at ~90%. Yet the narrative is that cops are the problem.

For perspective on NYC population: blacks 22%; hispanics 29%; whites 32%; asian 14%.

 

[Trausti]

Ya know, the actual stats don’t actually support that. In 2019, nine unarmed black males we killed by police. Compared to 19 white males. And young black males commit a disproportionate amount of crime; nearly all the gun homicides in NYC for example. Obviously, the more a group participates in criminal activity, the more contact with law enforcement.

Having looked at the 2019 stats for NYC, it’s closer to 60% black, 30% hispanic, and 7% asian/white for homicide offenders. Unsurprisingly, blacks and hispanics are victimized the most at ~90%. Yet the narrative is that cops are the problem.

For perspective on NYC population: blacks 22%; hispanics 29%; whites 32%; asian 14%.

And the disproportionate black offender rate explains the spikes in black homicide when police retreat after protests, e.g., Ferguson and Baltimore. The irony being that BLM victories lead to more dead black bodies.

 

[ZiprHead]

The world saw a helpless man lying on the ground getting killed by the police in cold blood,

"In cold blood" implies premeditation, which is not given here. There wasn't even intent, as what Chauvin did only turned deadly because of Floyd's medical condition and acute meth and fentanyl intoxication.

I don't think "cold blood" necessarily implies premeditation. I think it would also imply careless disregard... which I think was amply demonstrated.

As to your second point... it's just dumb. A perfectly healthy and fit person would have died after HAVING THEIR AIR CHOKED OFF FOR NINE MINUTES.

Definition

in cold blood
phrase of cold
without feeling or mercy; ruthlessly.

 

[laughing dog]

For perspective on NYC population: blacks 22%; hispanics 29%; whites 32%; asian 14%.

And the disproportionate black offender rate explains the spikes in black homicide when police retreat after protests, e.g., Ferguson and Baltimore. The irony being that BLM victories lead to more dead black bodies.

For some reason, you are unable to parse the difference between agents of the state killing unarmed people and murder between civilians.

 

[Trausti]

For perspective on NYC population: blacks 22%; hispanics 29%; whites 32%; asian 14%.

And the disproportionate black offender rate explains the spikes in black homicide when police retreat after protests, e.g., Ferguson and Baltimore. The irony being that BLM victories lead to more dead black bodies.

For some reason, you are unable to parse the difference between agents of the state killing unarmed people and murder between civilians.

And if you really cared about black lives, you’d focus on the leading cause of death for young black males. But, as you don’t care about that, let’s go with the insignificant cause to push a political agenda.

 

[laughing dog]

For some reason, you are unable to parse the difference between agents of the state killing unarmed people and murder between civilians.

And if you really cared about black lives, you’d focus on the leading cause of death for young black males. But, as you don’t care about that, let’s go with the insignificant cause to push a political agenda.

The police are employees of the state. It should be easier to change their mentality and brutality than to reorganize an entire society for the better. Duh.

 

[Trausti]

For some reason, you are unable to parse the difference between agents of the state killing unarmed people and murder between civilians.

And if you really cared about black lives, you’d focus on the leading cause of death for young black males. But, as you don’t care about that, let’s go with the insignificant cause to push a political agenda.

The police are employees of the state. It should be easier to change their mentality and brutality than to reorganize an entire society for the better. Duh.

And that changes black offender rates, how? Reduced police begets more dead black bodies. If there was an honest effort to reduce black crime offenses, the rate of black homicide and encounters with law enforcement would drop. But that wouldn’t advance the narrative.

 

[Arctish]

A 911 dispatcher watching real-time footage of George Floyd’s arrest in south Minneapolis was so alarmed by police officers’ actions that she called a supervisor who did not immediately respond to the scene, according to a newly released phone recording.

“I don’t know, you can call me a snitch if you want to but we have the cameras up for (squad) 320’s call, and … I don’t know if they had to use force or not, but they got something out of the back of the squad, and all of them sat on this man, so I don’t know if they needed you or not, but they haven’t said anything to me yet,” the dispatcher said.

Also:

The latest data release also included the transcript of two 911 calls made by bystanders to report the officers involved, including one by an off-duty city firefighter who happened upon the scene.

“Hello, I am on the block of 38th and Chicago and I literally watched police officers not take a pulse and not do anything to save a man, and I am a first responder myself, and I literally have it on video camera,” the unidentified firefighter says, according to the transcript. “I just happened to be on a walk so, this dude, this, they (expletive) killed him so...”

The transcript shows that the firefighter asked to speak with the officers’ supervisors to explain the situation, but then the line disconnected. The dispatcher tried to call back several times, but the calls went to voicemail each time.

 

[Derec]

I don't think "cold blood" necessarily implies premeditation. I think it would also imply careless disregard... which I think was amply demonstrated.

I guess we'll have to disagree on that.

As to your second point... it's just dumb. A perfectly healthy and fit person would have died after HAVING THEIR AIR CHOKED OFF FOR NINE MINUTES.

But he didn't have his air choked off for nine minutes. If he had, then it would have been a clear case of 1st degree murder.

 

[Derec]

Caim: There is systemic bias in policing and the justice system against black people

Supporting Evidence: Well researched and materially different rates of stops, searches, charges, and sentencing; materially different average length of sentencing; materially lower rates of warnings, fines, and community service sentences for black people committing comparable crimes to white people.

Show me evidence of such a disparity with all the other variables except race normalized for.
There has been a meme going around about two men, one white and one black, having committed a similar crime (I think robbery) and got very different sentences.
The meme implied that except for race these two cases were nearly identical, but that was a lie - the two cases had big differences, the biggest probably being that the white guy had turned state's evidence and thus got a cooperation deal on sentencing.

If the "supporting evidence" was as clear as you imply, why the need to lie and distort the facts?

 

[Derec]

One known incident of drug use does not qualify as addiction.

So we should assume he only used once?

Your sight is severely shaded by your bigotry.

No, yours is.

 

[Emily Lake]

But he didn't have his air choked off for nine minutes. If he had, then it would have been a clear case of 1st degree murder.

What is it that you think happened?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm not justifying it, I'm explaining why it happens and how to avoid it. You can try to avoid things that shouldn't exist in the first place!

What is it that you think Floyd should have avoided? Or what is it that you think shouldn't exist?

We will almost certainly never know. What we can see is they put him in the cruiser, then pulled him out and the officer put his knee on him for no apparent reason. That makes it very likely that the knee was retaliation for something that happened in the cruiser.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm not justifying it, I'm explaining why it happens and how to avoid it. You can try to avoid things that shouldn't exist in the first place!

What is it that you think Floyd should have avoided? Or what is it that you think shouldn't exist?

We will almost certainly never know. What we can see is they put him in the cruiser, then pulled him out and the officer put his knee on him for no apparent reason. That makes it very likely that the knee was retaliation for something that happened in the cruiser.

Retaliation may be an explanation, but it is not a justified excuse. It is further evidence that Mr. Chauvin should not be a police officer.

 

[ZiprHead]

One known incident of drug use does not qualify as addiction.

So we should assume he only used once?

We shouldn't assume anything.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I don't think "cold blood" necessarily implies premeditation. I think it would also imply careless disregard... which I think was amply demonstrated.

I guess we'll have to disagree on that.

As to your second point... it's just dumb. A perfectly healthy and fit person would have died after HAVING THEIR AIR CHOKED OFF FOR NINE MINUTES.

But he didn't have his air choked off for nine minutes. If he had, then it would have been a clear case of 1st degree murder.

So Chauvin was merely making knee to neck contact with his knee in George's neck for 9 minutes because Chauvin was a pervert?

WOW, use your brain!

 

[repoman]

But he didn't have his air choked off for nine minutes. If he had, then it would have been a clear case of 1st degree murder.

What is it that you think happened?

If the weight from his left knee was enough to cut off blood flow to brain that alone would have done it. His windpipe did not look blocked in that position,

No one can no for sure how much pressure Chauvin placed on Floyd's neck. Personally I rate it at 99.9+% chance that it was the body weight (even if it was not his intention) and not the fentanyl kicking in.

On the 0.1% chance that Chauvin was being light on the neck he was insanely stupid to ignore any optics if Floyd took a turn for the worse on his own.


What was Chauvin's end goal? To wait for Floyd to chill out and send him to the jail medical ward strapped into the ambulance gurney?

Maybe he didn't want to deal with Floyd anymore that day.


With three cops one could have been on his shins, the other on his hip and the third on his shoulder. Not even putting much weight unless they felt Floyd buck up. While doing that give the suspect the carrot of less applied pressure if he calms down.

Gotta stay off the neck and the rib cage as much as possible. The Tony Timpa case in point.