Somebody can play a role in what happened to them without excusing what happened.
-
Features
Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway
- Thread starter Deepak
- Start date
Somebody can play a role in what happened to them without excusing what happened.
ruby sparks
Contributor
Sort of like some rapes, maybe. Best not to struggle. Or provocatively wear a short skirt in the first place. Good advice, Loren. Maybe Floyd tried to flirt with one of the police officers or something and triggered his homophobia.
ruby sparks
Contributor
I mean it’s not as if you’ve mentioned this angle just once in passing, and spent most of the time laying the blame where it belongs, is it?
If you want to keep banging on and on about it, why don’t you go and start a thread on the issues around the problems with resisting arrest and stop trying to defend the indefensible in this one, where it’s clearly not really very relevant?
If you want to keep banging on and on about it, why don’t you go and start a thread on the issues around the problems with resisting arrest and stop trying to defend the indefensible in this one, where it’s clearly not really very relevant?
lpetrich
Contributor
'He just doesn't get it': has Trump been left behind by America's awakening on racism? | US news | The Guardian
That is absolute bullshit. What does she think LBJ did?
laughing dog
Contributor
Yesterday, two interesting developments in the Floyd case.
First, the Minneapolis police chief revealed that ex-officers Chauvin and Thao had training to prevent suffocation in people being restrained face down: (https://www.startribune.com/police-chief-derek-chauvin-knew-what-he-was-doing/571443282/):
Second, the head the Minneapolis police union, Bob Kroll agreed that Chauvin should be fired: (https://www.startribune.com/lt-bob-kroll-mpls-police-union-is-being-scapegoated-by-failed-leaders/571439422/)
First, the Minneapolis police chief revealed that ex-officers Chauvin and Thao had training to prevent suffocation in people being restrained face down: (https://www.startribune.com/police-chief-derek-chauvin-knew-what-he-was-doing/571443282/):
Second, the head the Minneapolis police union, Bob Kroll agreed that Chauvin should be fired: (https://www.startribune.com/lt-bob-kroll-mpls-police-union-is-being-scapegoated-by-failed-leaders/571439422/)
Jimmy Higgins
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2001
- Messages
- 50,265
- Basic Beliefs
- Calvinistic Atheist
Well Trump did pardon Jack Johnson, so clearly his record on race is spotless.
ideologyhunter
Contributor
We must not forget that Donald made it possible for Frederick Douglass to emerge from retirement and continue to do an amazing job.
Watching the recording of the killing, it seems to me that Chauvin knew what he was doing, and his intent was to hurt or kill Mr Floyd. And knowing they had worked together in the past and there was allegedly bad blood between the two adds context to Chauvin's seemingly inexplicable conduct. I believe what we witnessed was cold-blooded murder carried out under the authority and protection afforded by a police uniform, and supported by the actions of other police officers present at the scene.
It is interesting to note that the head of the police union is able to speak out clearly and unambiguously against Chauvin's actions, but a few of our friends on these forums are still defending the killing as justifiable and routine.
DBT
Contributor
Unquestioned police authority and the concern of going aganst it, being charged for obstruction, etc, probably prevented bystanders from being more assertive in their attempts to help Floyd.
Worldtraveller
Veteran Member
repoman
Contributor
The Elijah McClain case is next level compared to George Floyd.
500 mg injection of Ketamine by EMTs to a skinny guy who seemed to be already passed out?
The DA's report on the case
http://adamsbroomfieldda.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/ICD-8-24-19.pdf
500 mg injection of Ketamine by EMTs to a skinny guy who seemed to be already passed out?
The DA's report on the case
http://adamsbroomfieldda.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/ICD-8-24-19.pdf
ruby sparks
Contributor
Based on reading that, and not having any other familiarity with the case, including video evidence, it does seem like a reasonable outcome (the legal decision I mean), certainly by American policing standards, in the circumstances (or even any reasonable standards perhaps) even if tragic.
My only question might be whether the police suspicions about the suspect justified trying to detain (and search) him in the first instance. It seems nothing was found, no gun for example (unless I missed something).
So did they unnecessarily escalate the situation? Hard to say, given that he was apparently acting (and dressed) oddly and had been reported for that. But it sounds like he had mental health issues perhaps, not that he was a criminal.
It's reasonable to detain someone acting suspiciously even if it turns out to have a harmless cause. (Example: Long, long ago I was stopped by the police for being in a home construction zone at night. Construction zone at night = a street with no traffic, good for driver's training.)
As for "passed out"--that's what a carotid hold does but it doesn't last more than a few seconds after you let go. (And maintaining it too long is deadly, you can't keep someone under control that way.) Nor do the drugs they found explain what happened.
I wouldn't be one bit surprised if this actually was some synthetic drug they didn't test for. (They keep coming up with new ones.)
In most US jurisdictions, the police need to have reasonable suspicion of unlawful activity in order to detain someone. While the standard for reasonable suspicion is not as rigorous as probable cause (which is needed to conduct a search of private property or make an arrest), reasonable suspicion cannot be based simply on a hunch or a nonspecific suspicion. The police officer has to be able to articulate specific facts that lead to a rational and specific inference of potential unlawful activity in order to detain someone. "He looked suspicious to me", or "he was acting suspiciously" - are likely not good grounds for detention. "He matched the description of the suspect from a robbery four blocks away that happened 5 minutes ago, and he seemed nervous or agitated as I approached him" - likely a legitimate basis for detention based on reasonable suspicion.
ruby sparks
Contributor
Of course you wouldn't. But the bottom line is there is no evidence of any drugs, or weapons.
I've watched the bodycam footage. He doesn't look or sound as if he was obviously high on drugs. Not saying he wasn't, but it is speculation. He also doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong at all when the police arrive, just walking home along the street (albeit wearing a ski mask, allegedly because he had anemia, but whatever the reason he hadn't done anything wrong). Yet within 20 seconds, two officers had a hold of him, because he didn't seem keen to stop for them initially. That said, (a) I think he was listening to music on headphones so may not have heard the request and (b) the bodycam footage shows him telling officers that he was trying to stop his music to listen to them. It's clear he didn't like being grabbed, but neither would I. He appeared to just want them to let go rather than anything else, such as wanting to flee. One of the officers says something about a gun, but it's not entirely clear. He may have thought McClain was trying to get one of the officer's guns but this is not at all obvious and to me, watching McClains behaviour it feels unlikely. I'd guess maybe the officers were a bit jumpy.
Very quickly they had him on the ground and were kneeling on his neck, off and on for 15 minutes. It all seems a tad over-enthusiastic to me, in the circumstances. He lost consciousness and regained it more than once, was vomiting and repeatedly pleading with officers to stop. He was a small, skinny little guy. There were 5 or 6 reasonably big and burly male officers there when they sedated him while I believe he was already handcuffed. I am a bit surprised at the need to inject him with ketamine at all. Also, do US ambulance staff have legal authority to inject someone on the street with a psychoactive substance without knowing their medical history prior?
I think it escalated a bit too quickly and I think the police were a bit over-zealous. Overall, that is not quite the way I would like my own neighbourhood to be policed.
Last edited:
TV and credit cards
Contributor
Poor Donald is having an internal struggle between his hatred for other peoples and his lust for power and it’s losing him this election. That and he is publicly saying and doing things his deplorables know they cannot get away with. He’s unknowingly showing his privileged separation between himself and the average joes that listen to him, listened to that loudmouth at the end of the bar. It’s also why people didn’t show up for his rally. They know everyone around Trump gets checked for the virus on a regular basis while they get nothing. And now the surge in viral infections while Trump still presents his ‘masks are for liberals’ nudge. Even his most gristled supporters must be wondering.
ruby sparks
Contributor
This article raises concerns about the greatly increased use of ketamine to sedate police suspects in Minneapolis. Number of cases of it being administered in such situations went up by 2000% (from only 3 to 67 per annum) between 2012 and 2017 for instance.
Minneapolis Investigates Police Use Of Ketamine On Suspects
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/30/6249...e-use-of-ketamine-on-suspects?t=1593338848937
This part (below) is potentially especially worrying. The claim is that the hospitals are partly complicit in increased police requests to use ketamine partly because they need subjects for the studies they are doing on ketamine. I have read this elsewhere also:
"You know, the scope of the oversight report is mostly police, but they do touch on this a little bit. There's one case in particular where someone, you know, being recorded on police body camera asks why they sedated somebody and the paramedic talks about the study and says well, you know, we're doing this study and so we needed to give them ketamine. There was one woman we talked to who had relapsed on alcohol and she was in her apartment and her sponsor, an AA, called and said can you just do a welfare check on my friend. I just want to make sure she's OK. They ended up coming into her apartment - said she didn't want this drug, they gave it to her anyway.
She wakes up 24 hours later with a breathing tube down her throat. And then on her way out, they hand her this form that says, by the way, you know, you're enrolled in this study. And that's pretty common, that's a pretty typical story. There are several investigations going on right now including one with former acting U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates. She's been appointed by the mayor, here, to come in and do an independent investigation. So obviously they're very concerned."
If true, very ironic. Giving a date-rape drug to people without their consent.
Minneapolis Investigates Police Use Of Ketamine On Suspects
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/30/6249...e-use-of-ketamine-on-suspects?t=1593338848937
This part (below) is potentially especially worrying. The claim is that the hospitals are partly complicit in increased police requests to use ketamine partly because they need subjects for the studies they are doing on ketamine. I have read this elsewhere also:
"You know, the scope of the oversight report is mostly police, but they do touch on this a little bit. There's one case in particular where someone, you know, being recorded on police body camera asks why they sedated somebody and the paramedic talks about the study and says well, you know, we're doing this study and so we needed to give them ketamine. There was one woman we talked to who had relapsed on alcohol and she was in her apartment and her sponsor, an AA, called and said can you just do a welfare check on my friend. I just want to make sure she's OK. They ended up coming into her apartment - said she didn't want this drug, they gave it to her anyway.
She wakes up 24 hours later with a breathing tube down her throat. And then on her way out, they hand her this form that says, by the way, you know, you're enrolled in this study. And that's pretty common, that's a pretty typical story. There are several investigations going on right now including one with former acting U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates. She's been appointed by the mayor, here, to come in and do an independent investigation. So obviously they're very concerned."
If true, very ironic. Giving a date-rape drug to people without their consent.
Last edited:
Toni
Contributor
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2011
- Messages
- 22,573
- Basic Beliefs
- Peace on Earth, goodwill towards all
We should all be outraged at the use of ketamine or any other drug being administered at the hands of the police.
Full stop.
Testy Calibrate
Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2007
- Messages
- 530
- Location
- a pretty sidestreet in Happiness
- Basic Beliefs
- complicated
J842P
Veteran Member
I 100% agree. I can maybe imagine some case where it is justified, but certainly not this case, and the fact that it is becoming common is outrageous. I had never heard of this. What the hell is going on in Minneapolis?