Freddie Gray Death - The Courtroom Drama

[AthenaAwakened]

Who, the mayor? I do not hate her, but I do dislike her for her handling of the riots (giving rioters space) and the handling of the Grey family payout.

You hate freddie's mother. But you already know that.

And so does anyone reading your posts.

pretending to be slow won't make you justified.

So why do you hate her so?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Extortion requires an indicated threat to do harm if they don't get what they want, a pre-emptive payment to defuse hatred doesn't show extortion.

Unless rioters know they can get what they want by rioting.

The rioters wanted free stuff and to burn things. The rioters were nothing but thugs.

Your problem is that you equate the protesters with the rioters.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Extortion requires an indicated threat to do harm if they don't get what they want, a pre-emptive payment to defuse hatred doesn't show extortion.

Unless rioters know they can get what they want by rioting.

Extortion requires a "do <x> or bad thing <y> will happen" threat. Merely knowing of bad consequences doesn't make for extortion, the threat must be made.

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Extortion requires an indicated threat to do harm if they don't get what they want, a pre-emptive payment to defuse hatred doesn't show extortion.

We have created an extensive and complicated system which allows a person who has been harmed by another to take their complaint to an impartial authority, so they will not seek personal revenge. This keeps peace within the community. We maintain our legal system because of the threat of the alternative, which is violent retribution. This could be seen as a form of extortion, but it's actually a form of civilization.

Irrelevant.

The basic premise of a union is do what we want or we will disrupt your business as much as we can. It's not do what we want or we will sue you.

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Which is basically extortion.

Punitive damages are just that--punishment for wrongdoing. That the plaintiff financially gains is incidental. Punitive damages are also there as an example--a deterrent for others who may commit similar acts.

Also, what is a human life worth? The law presumes that the lives of loved ones are priceless and that the award of money damages is a mere token in exchange. But since one cannot be brought back from the dead, money is the only practical renumeration.

Again, a reply that has nothing to do with my post.

 

[Bronzeage]

Who, the mayor? I do not hate her, but I do dislike her for her handling of the riots (giving rioters space) and the handling of the Grey family payout.

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We have created an extensive and complicated system which allows a person who has been harmed by another to take their complaint to an impartial authority,

But this was not taken by an impartial authority. It was handled by a very partial authority instead.

It's not your place to say whether it is an impartial authority or not. You have every right to disagree with the judgment, accepting the verdict of a court is one of the requirements of living among the civilized.

 

[Derec]

It's not your place to say whether it is an impartial authority or not. You have every right to disagree with the judgment, accepting the verdict of a court is one of the requirements of living among the civilized.

This wasn't a "judgment" or "verdict" of any court. This is Baltimore deciding, before any lawsuit is even filed, to give them 6.5 million.

 

[arkirk]

It's not your place to say whether it is an impartial authority or not. You have every right to disagree with the judgment, accepting the verdict of a court is one of the requirements of living among the civilized.

This wasn't a "judgment" or "verdict" of any court. This is Baltimore deciding, before any lawsuit is even filed, to give them 6.5 million.

SO WHAT? Have you not heard the cops killed this guy in cold blood. That was the BALTIMORE COPS. Got it?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

This wasn't a "judgment" or "verdict" of any court. This is Baltimore deciding, before any lawsuit is even filed, to give them 6.5 million.

SO WHAT? Have you not heard the cops killed this guy in cold blood. That was the BALTIMORE COPS. Got it?

Also, this isn't an isolated incident. Since this has been a common occurrence for the city police and such lawsuits have already gone through, punitive damages are in order to tell the city to stop killing people/crippling people.

Also, these awards are negotiated through the lawyers. The city did not have to make a deal, but by not doing so it opens itself up to further lawsuits.

 

[Ford]

This wasn't a "judgment" or "verdict" of any court. This is Baltimore deciding, before any lawsuit is even filed, to give them 6.5 million.

SO WHAT? Have you not heard the cops killed this guy in cold blood. That was the BALTIMORE COPS. Got it?

See, Derec imagines himself a stalwart defender of the victims of this terrible crime...the taxpayers of Baltimore! That guy who died screaming for help in the back of a police van? Worthless human scum as far as Derec is concerned. What Freddie was subject to is nothing more than a "rough ride."

No, Derec thinks the terrible injustice here isn't the death of a human being in police custody (because #blacklivesdon'tmatter) but that the Grey family is getting compensated. What should have happened is that Freddie's body should have been dumped off at his mom's house, and when she complained the cops should have said "fuck you, your son was a drug dealer." Then they'd drive out of the ghetto where all the blacks live.

Oh, and rioters. Gotta mention the rioters. Remember there were rioters.

 

[Bronzeage]

It's not your place to say whether it is an impartial authority or not. You have every right to disagree with the judgment, accepting the verdict of a court is one of the requirements of living among the civilized.

This wasn't a "judgment" or "verdict" of any court. This is Baltimore deciding, before any lawsuit is even filed, to give them 6.5 million.

Why do you think that is?

A court was waiting, and probably would have awarded much more. In addition to the risk of a higher award, the Baltimore Police Department would be on trial. It would be their burden to prove Freddie Gray's death was not the result of their direct action or negligence.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It's not your place to say whether it is an impartial authority or not. You have every right to disagree with the judgment, accepting the verdict of a court is one of the requirements of living among the civilized.

This wasn't a "judgment" or "verdict" of any court. This is Baltimore deciding, before any lawsuit is even filed, to give them 6.5 million.

Well the whole he was taken into Police Custody alive and exited the vehicle on the verge of dying probably made the City want to settle.

 

[Bronzeage]

This wasn't a "judgment" or "verdict" of any court. This is Baltimore deciding, before any lawsuit is even filed, to give them 6.5 million.

Well the whole he was taken into Police Custody alive and exited the vehicle on the verge of dying probably made the City want to settle.

Freddie was just the tip of the iceberg and only the city knows how big the iceberg really is. For every death caused by this kind of action, there had to be dozens of injuries, all of which demonstrate a pattern of abuse and neglect of duty. Once a suit is in progress, the records of the police and hospitals would be wide open. Only an idiot would want to fight over this one.

 

[Derec]

Freddie was just the tip of the iceberg and only the city knows how big the iceberg really is. For every death caused by this kind of action, there had to be dozens of injuries, all of which demonstrate a pattern of abuse and neglect of duty. Once a suit is in progress, the records of the police and hospitals would be wide open. Only an idiot would want to fight over this one.

And I would much rather police department be cleaned up rather than one family be made rich. The real problem is punitive damages - they really have no legitimate place in tort law.

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A court was waiting, and probably would have awarded much more.

In a similar case a court actually reduced the verdict so I don't think so.

In addition to the risk of a higher award, the Baltimore Police Department would be on trial. It would be their burden to prove Freddie Gray's death was not the result of their direct action or negligence.

I think shining light on that police department would be a better outcome than making one family rich.

 

[Derec]

SO WHAT?

"So what" is that Bronzeage misinterpreted the settlement for an actual verdict by a court.

Have you not heard the cops killed this guy in cold blood. That was the BALTIMORE COPS. Got it?

No, they did not kill him in cold blood. There was not even intent to kill. It is still probably criminal, but it is not "cold blooded murder".

 

[Derec]

See, Derec imagines himself a stalwart defender of the victims of this terrible crime...the taxpayers of Baltimore! That guy who died screaming for help in the back of a police van? Worthless human scum as far as Derec is concerned.

I do not think his family deserves 6.5 million.

What Freddie was subject to is nothing more than a "rough ride."

I do not think anybody is really claiming anything else. This rough ride resulted in a death, and it is very likely criminal, but it was not an intentional killing.

No, Derec thinks the terrible injustice here isn't the death of a human being in police custody (because #blacklivesdon'tmatter) but that the Grey family is getting compensated. What should have happened is that Freddie's body should have been dumped off at his mom's house, and when she complained the cops should have said "fuck you, your son was a drug dealer." Then they'd drive out of the ghetto where all the blacks live.

The word you use "compensated" is an interesting one. It implies a tangible loss. Civil judgments should be about compensation, not punishment. That should be a criminal matter.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And I would much rather police department be cleaned up rather than one family be made rich.

Yes, I think we'd all agree to that.

The real problem is punitive damages - they really have no legitimate place in tort law.

This shit will happen when someone dies in the custody of the state. It sucks. It really does. That a drug dealing criminal's death leads to such a payout, but criminals are afforded the same rights in the US as non-criminals. It is what makes our country what it is, and we are protected from cruel and unusual punishment. The police fucked up royally. And this is the price.

A court was waiting, and probably would have awarded much more.

In a similar case a court actually reduced the verdict so I don't think so.

Usually there are links involved with such statements.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

And I would much rather police department be cleaned up rather than one family be made rich. The real problem is punitive damages - they really have no legitimate place in tort law.

So since similar abuse keeps happening over and over in the city what do you propose they do to fix it?

 

[Derec]

So since similar abuse keeps happening over and over in the city what do you propose they do to fix it?

Instead of overcharging low level people and handing out millions how about going after the brass?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So since similar abuse keeps happening over and over in the city what do you propose they do to fix it?

Instead of overcharging low level people and handing out millions how about going after the brass?

So instead of charging the people involved, they should charge their bosses boss?

 

[Derec]

Yes, I think we'd all agree to that.

Well good.

This shit will happen when someone dies in the custody of the state. It sucks. It really does. That a drug dealing criminal's death leads to such a payout, but criminals are afforded the same rights in the US as non-criminals. It is what makes our country what it is, and we are protected from cruel and unusual punishment. The police fucked up royally. And this is the price.

Wrongful death suits should be based on things like lost earnings as well as pain and suffering. Since Freddie did not have legitimate earnings he could not lose them and so $100,000 or so for family's emotional P&S should be plenty. The city rolled over way too easily.

Usually there are links involved with such statements.

There was when I first made this statement.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well good.

You damn we know that is how we feel.

This shit will happen when someone dies in the custody of the state. It sucks. It really does. That a drug dealing criminal's death leads to such a payout, but criminals are afforded the same rights in the US as non-criminals. It is what makes our country what it is, and we are protected from cruel and unusual punishment. The police fucked up royally. And this is the price.

Wrongful death suits should be based on things like lost earnings as well as pain and suffering. Since Freddie did not have legitimate earnings he could not lose them and so $100,000 or so for family's emotional P&S should be plenty.

A person's life is worth $100,000? You work with the Pinochet regime?

The city rolled over way too easily.

The City knows more about their existing and pre-existing liabilities better than we.

There was when I first made this statement.

Well I appreciate you helping out then.

Usually there are links involved with such statements.

There was when I first made this statement.

According to the link, the awards were close to or greater than this one. One was greatly reduced because of caps in State Law (public urination guy who died).