Freddie Gray Death - The Courtroom Drama

[Derec]

You implied it was intentional. Maybe not Freddie himself, but his family members set it up.

No, it's not intentional. It's still a gravy train though.

And as for the accusation of racism, in this case it is pretty clear, as you keep using the term "ghetto lottery." People win settlements in court all the time. People settle out of court all the time. You even used the term "lawsuit lottery" to refer to other non-Freddie cases. So it is "lawsuit lottery" when someone wins a sum of money, but when black people do it you call it "ghetto lottery."

Ghetto lottery is a specific subset, using the "black lives matter" movement and sympathetic city halls like that of NYC (gave Eric Garner's family almost 6 million even though he was a small time crook who would never have made even 1/20 of that over his lifetime in legitimate earnings) or Baltimore.

That seems pretty racist to me, and of course it doesn't to you.

Everything seems racist to you.

Then when they get taken to the cleaners and your tax dollars go to pay off some grieving black family, a little more justice will be served.

Again, to you and to people like the Baltimore mayor race is all that matters. To you, "grieving black families" deserve a payoff even when the shooting was justified, like in the case in Cobb County (where incidentally I do not live). Of course the family is filing a big lawsuit and I hope the county fights it because they do not deserve one red cent. That is somewhat different to Freddie Grey where there was wrongdoing and thus should be some judgment but the amount the city gave away is grossly inappropriate.
Had a white drug dealer died during a rough ride I very much doubt the pro-riot mayor ("give those who wish to destroy space") would have been eager to approve a 6.5 million dollar payout.

 

[ZiprHead]

I wonder if Freddie Gray's mother feels lucky?

So why do they want the millions then?

Who wouldn't???

 

[Ford]

That is somewhat different to Freddie Grey where there was wrongdoing and thus should be some judgment but the amount the city gave away is grossly inappropriate.
Had a white drug dealer died during a rough ride I very much doubt the pro-riot mayor ("give those who wish to destroy space") would have been eager to approve a 6.5 million dollar payout.

As I explained earlier, the payout figure was arrived at by the city - not based upon the race of the person - but on their estimation of the cost to the city had the case gone ahead. It is a calculation designed to save the taxpayers of Baltimore money.


You think the amount is "grossly inappropriate" because Freddie Grey's family is black and the current mayor is black. If the settlement had been half or a third or a tenth you'd have howled just as loudly, because the amount isn't what rankles you. Freddie got a "rough ride" in your view. The city's lawyers saw it as a clear cut case of the cops basically not giving a flying fuck that they'd killed a man.

 

[Derec]

As I explained earlier, the payout figure was arrived at by the city - not based upon the race of the person - but on their estimation of the cost to the city had the case gone ahead. It is a calculation designed to save the taxpayers of Baltimore money.

And the fact that the mayor was in favor of "black lives matter" rioters (aka "those who wished to destroy") had nothing to do with the size of the payout?

You think the amount is "grossly inappropriate" because Freddie Grey's family is black and the current mayor is black. If the settlement had been half or a third or a tenth you'd have howled just as loudly, because the amount isn't what rankles you. Freddie got a "rough ride" in your view. The city's lawyers saw it as a clear cut case of the cops basically not giving a flying fuck that they'd killed a man.

It has nothing to do with race for me, but apparently it does for Baltimore. Wrongful death lawsuits are based on things like lost future earnings. Freddie was a drug dealer with no legitimate earnings. So where does 6.5 million come from? In a previous "rough ride" death case a ridiculously high award was reduced because of a state law.
Freddie Gray not the first to come out of Baltimore police van with serious injuries

Johnson, who suffered a fractured neck, died two weeks later of pneumonia caused by his paralysis. His family sued, and a jury agreed that three officers were negligent in the way they treated Johnson. The initial $7.4 million award, however, was eventually reduced to $219,000 by Maryland's Court of Special Appeals because state law caps such payouts.

So your claim that it would have been more expensive for the city to not go to court is ridiculous. Had they gone to court they'd only have to pay $219,000. I wonder if the mayor and city council can be sued or prosecuted for dereliction of duty.
And again, let me remind you how negotiations work. You offer a low amount first and see if they accept or what their counteroffer is. You don't go with a very high bid right out the gate.

 

[Ford]

And the fact that the mayor was in favor of "black lives matter" rioters (aka "those who wished to destroy") had nothing to do with the size of the payout?

Do you think repeating this over and over again will somehow make it relevant?

It has nothing to do with race for me

Which is why you keep using "ghetto" to describe it?

So where does 6.5 million come from?

Do you need it explained again?


Oh...I forgot. You think that whatever figure you arrived at in your head is the appropriate one, and anything beyond that is excessive. Furthermore, you think the mayor pushed the city's lawyers to recommend the amount because she likes rioters. And she's black.

 

[Derec]

Do you think repeating this over and over again will somehow make it relevant?

She has shown affinity to the rioters. And with the payout to Grey's family, she has shown she cares more about them than the taxpayers of her city.

Which is why you keep using "ghetto" to describe it?

Well that's where Grey was from ...

Do you need it explained again?

Again? You never made any sort of explanation how they arrived at 6.5 million. Not based on projected future earnings (which he had none given that he lived off an old lawsuit and selling drugs). Not based on any sort of formula that I was shown (weird given your claim that you explained to me how the amount was arrived at).
And state law caps such payouts at $219,000 so there was zero reason to rush into paying them six and a half million.

Oh...I forgot. You think that whatever figure you arrived at in your head is the appropriate one, and anything beyond that is excessive. Furthermore, you think the mayor pushed the city's lawyers to recommend the amount because she likes rioters. And she's black.

I wonder where she pulled the figure 6.5 million out from.

 

[Ford]

She has shown affinity to the rioters. And with the payout to Grey's family, she has shown she cares more about them than the taxpayers of her city.

We've been over this. The city was seeking to save money. But you just wanna keep going on about how you don't like blacks.

Well that's where Grey was from ...

Where all black people are from in Derec-world!

You never made any sort of explanation how they arrived at 6.5 million.

Look, if you refuse to read the explanation, me posting it again would be a waste of time.

 

[Bronzeage]

I wonder if Freddie Gray's mother feels lucky?

So why do they want the millions then?

I have to suppose you do not have any children, because you certainly have no ability to empathize with someone who does.

Let's imagine there is a world where your question makes some kind of sense. In this world, you actually have a child, and this child is killed by negligent government officials. Under the law, you are entitled to compensation. Do you consider this to be your good fortune? Will you forego the compensation, because all the money in the world will not replace your child?

What exactly do you believe is the luck this mother has experienced?

 

[Derec]

We've been over this. The city was seeking to save money.

Right. Instead of paying the state law capped amount of $219,000 they volunteered to pay $6.5 million even before any lawsuit was filed. Brilliant way to save money. No wonder Baltimore has such problems given the intellectual capacity of people running it.

But you just wanna keep going on about how you don't like blacks.

Your false accusations of racism are getting tiresome. I don't like grifters. I don't like corrupt city officials who disregard their fiduciary duty.

Where all black people are from in Derec-world!

Not all black people and not only black people. But Grey certainly was, and that's what I wrote. Learn to fucking read.

Look, if you refuse to read the explanation, me posting it again would be a waste of time.

You keep saying they did it to save money but you never explained how they arrived at that amount.
So let me ask you again. How did the mayor and her cronies at the city council come up with 6.5 million as the amount?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have run into a reasonable argument for paying him--they're trying to defuse the eventual riots.

Which is basically extortion.

Extortion requires an indicated threat to do harm if they don't get what they want, a pre-emptive payment to defuse hatred doesn't show extortion.

 

[Derec]

Which is basically extortion.

Extortion requires an indicated threat to do harm if they don't get what they want, a pre-emptive payment to defuse hatred doesn't show extortion.

Unless rioters know they can get what they want by rioting.

 

[Bronzeage]

Which is basically extortion.

Extortion requires an indicated threat to do harm if they don't get what they want, a pre-emptive payment to defuse hatred doesn't show extortion.

We have created an extensive and complicated system which allows a person who has been harmed by another to take their complaint to an impartial authority, so they will not seek personal revenge. This keeps peace within the community. We maintain our legal system because of the threat of the alternative, which is violent retribution. This could be seen as a form of extortion, but it's actually a form of civilization.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

She has shown affinity to the rioters. And with the payout to Grey's family, she has shown she cares more about them than the taxpayers of her city.

Which is why you keep using "ghetto" to describe it?

Well that's where Grey was from ...

Do you need it explained again?

Again? You never made any sort of explanation how they arrived at 6.5 million. Not based on projected future earnings (which he had none given that he lived off an old lawsuit and selling drugs). Not based on any sort of formula that I was shown (weird given your claim that you explained to me how the amount was arrived at).
And state law caps such payouts at $219,000 so there was zero reason to rush into paying them six and a half million.

Oh...I forgot. You think that whatever figure you arrived at in your head is the appropriate one, and anything beyond that is excessive. Furthermore, you think the mayor pushed the city's lawyers to recommend the amount because she likes rioters. And she's black.

I wonder where she pulled the figure 6.5 million out from.

Why do you hate this woman so? or do you even notice anymore? Is your hate on autopilot now?

 

[Derec]

Why do you hate this woman so? or do you even notice anymore? Is your hate on autopilot now?

Who, the mayor? I do not hate her, but I do dislike her for her handling of the riots (giving rioters space) and the handling of the Grey family payout.

- - - Updated - - -

We have created an extensive and complicated system which allows a person who has been harmed by another to take their complaint to an impartial authority,

But this was not taken by an impartial authority. It was handled by a very partial authority instead.

 

[RavenSky]

Do you love anyone Derec? If so, how much money would it take for you to feel "lucky" that they were killed by the police?

 

[Derec]

Do you love anyone Derec? If so, how much money would it take for you to feel "lucky" that they were killed by the police?

If they were victim of an unjustified killing I would want to see those responsible punished criminally and/or professionally but unless my loved one had dependents I would not seek money. I would certainly not seek to become a millionaire over that tragedy and I view anybody who does with suspicion.

 

[Ford]

Right. Instead of paying the state law capped amount of $219,000 they volunteered to pay $6.5 million even before any lawsuit was filed. Brilliant way to save money.

I'm just gonna take a wild guess and say that your "state law capped" amount doesn't apply in this case. If it did, then why would...


Oh, that's right. The mayor is black. And loves rioters. And wants the Grey family to win a ghetto lottery.

 

[Bacillus anthracis]

I have run into a reasonable argument for paying him--they're trying to defuse the eventual riots.

Which is basically extortion.

Punitive damages are just that--punishment for wrongdoing. That the plaintiff financially gains is incidental. Punitive damages are also there as an example--a deterrent for others who may commit similar acts.

Also, what is a human life worth? The law presumes that the lives of loved ones are priceless and that the award of money damages is a mere token in exchange. But since one cannot be brought back from the dead, money is the only practical renumeration.

 

[arkirk]

Extortion requires an indicated threat to do harm if they don't get what they want, a pre-emptive payment to defuse hatred doesn't show extortion.

We have created an extensive and complicated system which allows a person who has been harmed by another to take their complaint to an impartial authority, so they will not seek personal revenge. This keeps peace within the community. We maintain our legal system because of the threat of the alternative, which is violent retribution. This could be seen as a form of extortion, but it's actually a form of civilization.

Again we get from Loren the suggestion that hatred can be pre-emptively bought out of existence. He regards compensation for loss as buying reduced damage. It was largely a matter of under whose auspices the killing occurred should be held responsible for the loss the crime caused. It does not pre-empt seeking justice in the sense of criminal law. You get to think like that when you regard all payments for the sake of buying off violence. Good capitalists do not have a problem with violence so their money goes to sponsor the police violence and pay the extortion they feel they have to. No threat is needed....just a lawsuit. Actually Bronzeage has it right. The compensation for the murder is evidence of the city trying to act civilized.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Right. Instead of paying the state law capped amount of $219,000 they volunteered to pay $6.5 million even before any lawsuit was filed. Brilliant way to save money.

I'm just gonna take a wild guess and say that your "state law capped" amount doesn't apply in this case. If it did, then why would...


Oh, that's right. The mayor is black. And loves rioters. And wants the Grey family to win a ghetto lottery.

Caps like this are usually for employees, but if someone can find this law...