Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest

[Loren Pechtel]

We know he was raising a ruckus in back for no reason. He very well might have done something stupid to try to continue to raise a ruckus despite being shackled.

How do we know that? The guy that was also prisoner that allegedly said that, recanted his statements as I recall. As for the police report: I wouldn't put too much money down on that being impartial, and not biased toward the police department.

Timeline!!

The guy was raising enough ruckus after being loaded into the van that the police stopped and shackled him. He wasn't hurt at that point, it wasn't about an injury. The other guy wasn't even in the van at that point, he couldn't testify about the situation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If I failed to follow safety procedures at my job, i would be responsible for that death. Why is this different?

Failed to follow not-yet-announced safety procedures, though?

 

[atrib]

Freddie Gray was killed while in police custody, very likely because he was not appropriately secured to his seat, the driver chose to give him a "rough ride", and because the police who were responsible for his safety chose to ignore his pleas for medical assistance. The PD in this city has a documented history of similar behavior resulting in severe injury to other people in their custody. These are the facts of the case as we know them. Rote denial indeed.

Freddie Gray was killed, most likely in an accidental fall in the back of a police van.

The police are responsible for the safety of the people they take into custody. Yes or No?
The police failed to secure Freddie Grey to his seat with suitable restraints that are designed to prevent injuries, in direct violation of the Department's policies. Yes or No?
While serious or fatal injuries may be rare for people being transported in police vans while in handcuffs and shackles, they are not unheard of or even unforeseen. In fact, there are documented instances of such injuries that have been caused by this very same PD. Yes or No?
The police failed to provide medical assistance to Freddie Grey when he requested it. Yes or No?

Which of these facts do you dispute?

If the police had done their job, Freddie Grey would likely have been alive today. At the very minimum, they were delinquent in carrying out their responsibility of keeping Freddie Grey safe. Moreover, the PD has a history of subjecting some of their prisoners to "rough rides", which potentially aggravates their level of culpability in the death of Freddie Grey.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Freddie Gray was killed, most likely in an accidental fall in the back of a police van.

Do you have a statistic that will back this up? Simply tumbling over does not produce crushed spine.

 

[ksen]

There have been two documented deaths in the last two decades that might have been from intentional rough rides and falls. However, as there is no evidence (or even unsupported claim) of a rough ride in this instance (and certainly not by Porter, who did not drive) then those cases are irrelevant.

And yet when you flip that around and there are some documented criminal things in a killed-by-cop-guy's past it is highly relevant to some posters.

Weird.

 

[ksen]

You did not show that my factual statement on Gray's choice, or the followup deductive reasoning, was in error.

Your "factual statement" that Gray stood up on his own and caused his own injury is unproven garbage. Therefore I can infer that any deductions made from that not factually proven premise are also garbage.

yw

 

[Derec]

Freddie Gray and his cash-for-crash scheme:
Obstruction of Justice: More Evidence Withheld by Marilyn Mosby

 

[Derec]

This gentleman

He is hardly a gentleman.

attended Morehouse and Morgan State - both historically black institutions of higher learning.

In other words, the entire colleges are "affirmative action" institutions.

So your derailing swipe at AA is truly ignorance-based.

I do not see how it makes it any better. Colleges that pride themselves on racial purity and which produce and hire professors of his caliber (racial grievance peddlers) are truly an anachronism that is best left in the dustbin of history.

More importantly, wtf does your response have to do with Freddie Gray?

He is from Baltimore and made these racist comments in the wake of Freddie Gray riots. Also, this tweet was reposted recently with #freddiegray hashtag.

In any case, when are you going to give this "gentleman" all of your money?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Freddie Gray and his cash-for-crash scheme:
Obstruction of Justice: More Evidence Withheld by Marilyn Mosby

The PC Graveyard? Really?

 

[Derec]

Freddie Grey judge apparently has never heard of the 5th Amendment.
Baltimore judge orders officer to testify in second Gray death trial
The issue is that Porter will stand trial again and thus saying anything about the case can damage his own defense. That is why Porter was tried in the first place. Now Judge Williams comes and says that 5th amendment doesn't matter? Bullshit! This judge is gung-ho for the prosecution when he should be an impartial arbiter.

 

[Nexus]

Judge Barry Williams said Porter, whose own trial ended in a hung jury last month, could be compelled to take the stand since state prosecutors had offered him immunity in exchange for testifying.

The 5th only applies to self-incrimination. You can be compelled to testify against others without violating the constitution. This is basic high school level American government knowledge.

 

[Derec]

The 5th only applies to self-incrimination.

Captain Obvious is obvious.

You can be compelled to testify against others without violating the constitution. This is basic high school level American government knowledge.

The problem is that the Porter (who was tried first deliberately in view of having him testify in later trials) trial ended in a mistrial and he is going to get retried. Which means his testimony can be used against him which means it is self-incrimination. Legal commentators have pointed to that as one of the problems Mosby is facing in prosecuting upcoming trials without Porter's testimony. Of course that doesn't matter as long as she has a sympathetic judge who is acting more and more like a second prosecutor.

 

[KeepTalking]

Captain Obvious is obvious.

You can be compelled to testify against others without violating the constitution. This is basic high school level American government knowledge.

The problem is that the Porter trial ended in a mistrial and he is going to get retried.

What part of "immunity from prosecution" don't you understand?

 

[Derec]

What part of "immunity from prosecution" don't you understand?

Since Mosby is gung ho on reprosecuting him I guess it would be all parts. The whole thing is a mess though. From overzealous prosecution to making Grey's family millionaires for no good reason.

 

[KeepTalking]

What part of "immunity from prosecution" don't you understand?

Since Mosby is gung ho on reprosecuting him I guess it would be all parts. The whole thing is a mess though. From overzealous prosecution to making Grey's family millionaires for no good reason.

Mosby cannot prosecute him if he is given immunity.

 

[Derec]

Mosby cannot prosecute him if he is given immunity.

Exactly. And since he is getting retried in June that means he is not being given immunity. Otherwise there'd be no 5th amendment problem here.

 

[KeepTalking]

Mosby cannot prosecute him if he is given immunity.

Sine he is getting retried in June that means he is not being given immunity. Otherwise there'd be no 5th amendment problem here.

He won't be getting retried in June if he testifies. You do realize that prosecutions can be dropped before they go to trial, right?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What part of "immunity from prosecution" don't you understand?

Since Mosby is gung ho on reprosecuting him I guess it would be all parts. The whole thing is a mess though. From overzealous prosecution to making Grey's family millionaires for no good reason.

Yeah, it has gotten to the point you can't even have someone die in your custody and not get put on trial these days!

 

[Derec]

He won't be getting retried in June if he testifies. You do realize that prosecutions can be dropped before they go to trial, right?

I have seen no indication that Mosby is planning to drop charges. What Williams is getting at is not immunity from prosecution but that Mosby will kindly disregard his testimony when she retries him. But just like you can't unring a bell you can't unknow what you know which is why this move by Williams is so unprecedented.
.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

He won't be getting retried in June if he testifies. You do realize that prosecutions can be dropped before they go to trial, right?

I have seen no indication that Mosby is planning to drop charges. What Williams is getting at is not immunity from prosecution but that Mosby will kindly disregard his testimony when she retries him. But just like you can't unring a bell you can't unknow what you know which is why this move by Williams is so unprecedented.
.

You shouldn't see any indication. You are not a party to any negotiations or offers being made.