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[Learner]

I like the much nicer view of the relating scriptures:

If we were to see them as 'co-managing'. That is 144,000 managing advisers (if you will) who would also be ruling with Christ the rest of us...
..."a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb".

Why would an omnipotent absolute monarch need "advisors"? Advising him on what? Seems a bit out of character for the Jesus of the Christian gospels at any rate, he mocked anyone who presumed to suggest a different course of action to him, even his closest friends.

Pardon me, I wasn't clear here. It wouldn't beJesus they'd be advising, or guiding, rather. The 144,000 would be assisting Jesus to guide everyone else.

 

[Learner]

I like the much nicer view of the relating scriptures:

If we were to see them as 'co-managing'. That is 144,000 managing advisers (if you will) who would also be ruling with Christ the rest of us...
..."a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb".

Interesting how some people take ancient poetry, hyperbole, and metaphor as literal fact.

I must be special then to get a response like that.

Do you mean to say some religious people don't do any of the above in your statement?

Maybe 3000 years from now there will be debate over whether or not there was an historical Captain Kirk or Luke Sky walker or Frodo.

Hmmm ok. I suspect 3000 years from now they will find 'along side' the stories of captain Kirk and Luke Skywalker, many written pages of critics who write about these movies, detailing the authors, the movie directors, and that they were all played by actors. They'd discover Captain Kirk was also a cop in a TV series.

That would be the evidence of research 3000 years from now.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Revelation isn't a text I can spend a lot of time with -- it's too much like conversing with a patient who is deep in dementia. But...Revelation 7 indicates that the 144,000 will be men, chosen from the 12 tribes of Israel (at least, most of the listed tribes coincide with the list of the tribes on google.) Rev. 14 states that these are the only followers of the Lamb who can learn his songs, possibly because they have only one thing on their mind, being holy. Verse 4: "It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste." I have nothing against virginal Jewish men; it just seems like a constricted demographic. Why not left-handed Levites? Essenes with Tourettes? I just have the suspicion that virginal Jewish men, as a welcoming committee to the New Jerusalem, would introduce a subtle nagging quality. "Welcome to the New Jerusalem, I see by your pass that you will be staying in Great Gold Lodge. Just saying, your mother has been staying at Esther's Microtel by Wyndham -- and she mentioned that you haven't called her since the End Times started. We all have mothers, right? Mama did her best for us, just a thought. You know, a simple call or a bunch of flowers would do wonders."

 

[Politesse]

Revelation isn't a text I can spend a lot of time with -- it's too much like conversing with a patient who is deep in dementia. But...Revelation 7 indicates that the 144,000 will be men, chosen from the 12 tribes of Israel (at least, most of the listed tribes coincide with the list of the tribes on google.) Rev. 14 states that these are the only followers of the Lamb who can learn his songs, possibly because they have only one thing on their mind, being holy. Verse 4: "It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste." I have nothing against virginal Jewish men; it just seems like a constricted demographic.

Or just gay. We're God's special children.

 

[unapologetic]

That would be the evidence 3000 years from now.

Would it?
Where is the early criticism of early chtistianity? Destroyed or locked up in the vatican, I'd guess.
Just 100 or 200 years from now, after the fall of the Romen American empire and the failed democrecy movement, The Holy Kirkist Church (combining Charlie and James T into one devine person), might be powerful enough to bury counter-evidence.

Yeah. Charlie gets reserected and blasts into the heavens to command a starship to bring Kirkism and the word of Trump to (illegal) aliens on other worlds. While back on earth the Trump dinasty and the official Trump library maintains (edits) the history tapes.

Remember, History is writen by the victors.
Rump has been busy rewriting the history displayed in the Smithzonian.

 

[steve_bank]

I like the much nicer view of the relating scriptures:

If we were to see them as 'co-managing'. That is 144,000 managing advisers (if you will) who would also be ruling with Christ the rest of us...
..."a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb".

Interesting how some people take ancient poetry, hyperbole, and metaphor as literal fact.

I must be special then to get a response like that.

Do you mean to say some religious people don't do any of the above in your statement?

Maybe 3000 years from now there will be debate over whether or not there was an historical Captain Kirk or Luke Sky walker or Frodo.

Hmmm ok. I suspect 3000 years from now they will find 'along side' the stories of captain Kirk and Luke Skywalker, many written pages of critics who write about these movies, detailing the authors, the movie directors, and that they were all played by actors. They'd discover Captain Kirk was also a cop in a TV series.

That would be the evidence of research 3000 years from now.

I would not say you are special, more like a typical run of the mill Christian. Over the years I have known Christina and been invited to homes, meetings, and services.

I do not know about where you are, over here there is a lot of Christian TV and radio. Literal interpretation of scripture.

As I said to you before Christians put on blinders and ignore all other mythology.

When I grew up there were the Greek mythology movies like Jason And The Argonauts. Gods interacting with humans. I do not take Greek mythology as literal.

I do not know much about it, Hindu mythology, it is extensive and predates Judaism. I believe Hinduism is considered the oldest tradition.

Star Wars is a mythology. The idea of the force brings Taoism to mind. You see it in the Hong Kong martial arts movies. More recently Forbidden Kingdom. Twp masters doing battle with chi, energy fro living humanss that can be used to heal or kill..

Lucas said part of his inspiration were the cowboy movie serials he watched as a kid.

Hans Solo was the grey gunslinger, part good part bad. In the end he becomes good and of course gets the girl.

Likewise the OT NT mythology has precedents and uis adted form oter mytholgies.

So as I sdaid 3000 yeras from now when current languages are dead therema y be heated debate over whteher or not there was an hisrcal Frodo and Gandalf.

BTW, I see Gandalf as a kind of Jesus figure. H starts out as Gandalf The Grey. After doing a great battle with an nunderground demon falls deep in the Earth. He emerges as Gandalf the White, purged and reborn.

Tolkien was Christian and converted CS Lewis.

Pint being mythology builds on precedents. All literature does.

 

[Learner]

That would be the evidence 3000 years from now.

Would it?
Where is the early criticism of early chtistianity? Destroyed or locked up in the vatican, I'd guess.

By your reasoning in consideration. Would the Vatican be the only source of early criticism on Christianity? And... how was this early criticism revealed to you?

You'd guess.

Just 100 or 200 years from now, after the fall of the Romen American empire and the failed democrecy movement, The Holy Kirkist Church (combining Charlie and James T into one devine person), might be powerful enough to bury counter-evidence.

An interesting thought, but..but will it happen though?

Yeah. Charlie gets reserected and blasts into the heavens to command a starship to bring Kirkism and the word of Trump to (illegal) aliens on other worlds. While back on earth the Trump dinasty and the official Trump library maintains (edits) the history tapes.

the same as the previous above.

Remember, History is writen by the victors.
Rump has been busy rewriting the history displayed in the Smithzonian.

I suppose to some degree, I would agree. Say for example: All types of people have been trying to destroy Christianity from every angle since it began. It's continued survival presents itself as being victorious.

 

[Learner]

Revelation isn't a text I can spend a lot of time with -- it's too much like conversing with a patient who is deep in dementia. But...Revelation 7 indicates that the 144,000 will be men, chosen from the 12 tribes of Israel (at least, most of the listed tribes coincide with the list of the tribes on google.) Rev. 14 states that these are the only followers of the Lamb who can learn his songs, possibly because they have only one thing on their mind, being holy. Verse 4: "It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste." I have nothing against virginal Jewish men; it just seems like a constricted demographic.

Or just gay. We're God's special children.

Ideology is right on it. They are supposed to be virgins..
...but no worries, they're not heterosexuals either. The mere sexual attraction or the sexual thoughts on another person, I would say, is NOT an element or criteria that defines them in terms of being holy.

 

[Politesse]

Ideology is right on it. They are supposed to be virgins..

Nothing gays can do with each other is sex or a marriage as the Bible defines them. You're just cranky because your God is going to save us and send you to the lake of fire.

 

[steve_bank]

That would be the evidence 3000 years from now.

Would it?
Where is the early criticism of early chtistianity? Destroyed or locked up in the vatican, I'd guess.

By your reasoning in consideration. Would the Vatican be the only source of early criticism on Christianity? And... how was this early criticism revealed to you?

You'd guess.

Just 100 or 200 years from now, after the fall of the Romen American empire and the failed democrecy movement, The Holy Kirkist Church (combining Charlie and James T into one devine person), might be powerful enough to bury counter-evidence.

An interesting thought, but..but will it happen though?

Yeah. Charlie gets reserected and blasts into the heavens to command a starship to bring Kirkism and the word of Trump to (illegal) aliens on other worlds. While back on earth the Trump dinasty and the official Trump library maintains (edits) the history tapes.

the same as the previous above.

Remember, History is writen by the victors.
Rump has been busy rewriting the history displayed in the Smithzonian.

I suppose to some degree, I would agree. Say for example: All types of people have been trying to destroy Christianity from every angle since it began. It's continued survival presents itself as being victorious.

That is absolute nonsense.

The major enemy of Christians throughout history have been other Christians.

It is Christians who are always trying ti impose Christianity on others, at times by force.

 

[unapologetic]

Would the Vatican be the only source of early criticism on Christianity?

Remember the 'Dark Ages'? When christian monks were the only ones keeping books alive in what is sometimes refered to as 'christianity' (Europe)?

And... how was this early criticism revealed to you?

By it's suspicious absence.

An interesting thought, but..but will it happen though?

Gawd, I hope not. But I'm a pesimist. I don't have your optimism for the 3000 year survival of today's books, tapes, disks, or the electronics to play them. Our story/history will be writen by the survivors of the fall of our civilazation. Not by us. (or maybe just totaly forgotten)
Even the babble you read was not writen by people of the time. It was rewriten by King James. Following a handwriten 'telephone game' of countless christian monk transcribers.

 

[Learner]

Ideology is right on it. They are supposed to be virgins..

Nothing gays can do with each other is sex or a marriage as the Bible defines them. You're just cranky because your God is going to save us and send you to the lake of fire.

I'm not at all cranky about gays, you not going get an argument there on me, nice try, although to the other part however,..
....I could still go to the lake of fire if I were willingly doing opposite to what Christ teaches.
"Many will walk through the wide gate to destruction.etc.& etc . meaning this applies to the religious false believers, preachers and prophets, If you didn't know.

 

[Politesse]

Ideology is right on it. They are supposed to be virgins..

Nothing gays can do with each other is sex or a marriage as the Bible defines them. You're just cranky because your God is going to save us and send you to the lake of fire.

I'm not at all cranky about gays, you not going get an argument there on me, nice try, although to the other part however,..
....I could still go to the lake of fire if I were willingly doing opposite to what Christ teaches.

Ah, one of those "salvation by works" types, I take it.

 

[bilby]

I could still go to the lake of fire if...

You couldn't, because it's just as much make believe as the starship Enterprise.

You do know that the starship Enterprise is pretend, right? Just like Hell, or Pokemon, or God, or Sherlock Holmes?

Humans love a good story. Sometimes they lose track of what is stories, and what is real. The actor who played Den Watts on the long running British soap opera Eastenders got death threats when his character cheated on his fictional wife on the show.

You are making similar threats (to yourself - threats are dumb, but threatening yourself is pathological), but those threats are of fictional punishments, which is even dumber.

Warnings about being cast into the lake of fire after death may seem scary to you, but to me it's like being warned that Darth Vader will behead me with his lightsabre.

 

[steve_bank]

There are homosexuals on the forum? Wow, I had no idea. I am shocked, shocked I tell you!!

Learner, please lead us in a prayer to bring this godless forum to Jesus.

 

[Learner]

Ideology is right on it. They are supposed to be virgins..

Nothing gays can do with each other is sex or a marriage as the Bible defines them. You're just cranky because your God is going to save us and send you to the lake of fire.

I'm not at all cranky about gays, you not going get an argument there on me, nice try, although to the other part however,..
....I could still go to the lake of fire if I were willingly doing opposite to what Christ teaches.

Ah, one of those "salvation by works" types, I take it.

Not really, no. The context of the 'wide gate' for example is in contrast to do with the condemnation of liars and hypocrites, especially 'religious' ones claiming to do the things that they do...is in Gods name.

Yeah so, you could consider the idea as to 'why' for example,"salvation by works" is not going to do much good to the individuals who suddenly become Christian on their death beds...without any works.

Another example: The thief that was crucified with Jesus had no 'works' to buy his ticket to paradise with. As the story goes: His belief in Christ got him there!

 

[ideologyhunter]

Homosexuals? Could be. No transgendered, though. We have Donald Trump as President.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I could still go to the lake of fire if...

You couldn't, because it's just as much make believe as the starship Enterprise.

You do know that the starship Enterprise is pretend, right? Just like Hell, or Pokemon, or God, or Sherlock Holmes?

Humans love a good story. Sometimes they lose track of what is stories, and what is real. The actor who played Den Watts on the long running British soap opera Eastenders got death threats when his character cheated on his fictional wife on the show.

You are making similar threats (to yourself - threats are dumb, but threatening yourself is pathological), but those threats are of fictional punishments, which is even dumber.

Warnings about being cast into the lake of fire after death may seem scary to you, but to me it's like being warned that Darth Vader will behead me with his lightsabre.

I looked for, but couldn't scare up, a quote I read some years ago about the strangeness of humanity: we invent gods and then live in fear of them.

 

[Elixir]

Some self righteous, pious summbich is driving around in the car I was gonna get if he wasn’t such a goddam liar!

 

[Learner]

That would be the evidence 3000 years from now.

Would it?
Where is the early criticism of early chtistianity? Destroyed or locked up in the vatican, I'd guess.

By your reasoning in consideration. Would the Vatican be the only source of early criticism on Christianity? And... how was this early criticism revealed to you?

You'd guess.

Just 100 or 200 years from now, after the fall of the Romen American empire and the failed democrecy movement, The Holy Kirkist Church (combining Charlie and James T into one devine person), might be powerful enough to bury counter-evidence.

An interesting thought, but..but will it happen though?

Yeah. Charlie gets reserected and blasts into the heavens to command a starship to bring Kirkism and the word of Trump to (illegal) aliens on other worlds. While back on earth the Trump dinasty and the official Trump library maintains (edits) the history tapes.

the same as the previous above.

Remember, History is writen by the victors.
Rump has been busy rewriting the history displayed in the Smithzonian.

I suppose to some degree, I would agree. Say for example: All types of people have been trying to destroy Christianity from every angle since it began. It's continued survival presents itself as being victorious.

That is absolute nonsense.

The major enemy of Christians throughout history have been other Christians.

Depends how you see it....
...I mean being anti-Christ i.e. being anti-Jesus by various attempted approaches, distortions and corruption of scriptures, denying people existed, to mislead, etc. & etc.just to name a few .. that's how his enemies work. Even under the guise of Christians, unfortunately.

The origins of this great teacher is unknown, but he coined a well known phrase, highlighting that devious agendas could reveal itself:
Follow da money!

Translated in Jesus speak:
You shall know them by their fruits!

Alas...through the wide gate they go.

It is Christians who are always trying ti impose Christianity on others, at times by force.

Christians as a whole have had various different approaches. Not all in agreement with each other of course. Some, may just be too attracted to going through the easy wide gate.