French talk show host to Trump: go fuck yourself

[bilby]

Lol don't travel much, do you?

Not internationally for 6-7 years, no. (Does six flights last week within the US count for "travel"?) And even if I had, I wouldn't be foolish enough to think I could personally gather a representative sample of opinions on how people "over there" view America and/or Trump. That's just the impression I get from media, foreign friends, anecdotes, posts like Jimmy's etc..
I am open to countervailing reports, surveys and opinions if you have some.

If you ask most English or Australian people "Who stands for 'liberty and justice for all'", they will likely say 'Superman' - a fictional character - not 'The USA'. People in those countries (as far as I can tell from living for over twenty years in both) think a lot of things about America, but few regard her as the bastion of liberty or justice. And most recognize that as an historically isolationist nation, most Americans think that 'for all' implies only 'for all Americans'. Americans barely recognize the existence of the rest of the world, and the rest of the world, as a result, do not look to America for moral leadership in anything. America has a lot of clout, both financial and military, but that demands cautious diplomacy, not respect or admiration.

Americans are often surprised by this, perhaps because they are raised with their 'pledge of allegiance' from a young age (by the way, having a 'pledge of allegiance' at all is rather like calling yourself the 'peoples democratic republic' - it really doesn't promote the idea that your nation understands what freedom even IS; Much less that she is some kind of exemplar of liberty and justice).

That your systems are manifestly unjust, with outcomes determined by wealth rather than merit, and with a huge underclass many of whom are incarcerated, and many of whom remain an underclass by virtue of being descended from slaves, does little to boost your 'justice' credentials.

People are, however, used to the POTUS being the representative of his nation, and to the tradition of the Presidency being a position of public service in which the President puts his country ahead of his personal benefit (even if what is good for the USA may not be what is best for the wider world). That tradition has occasionally been somewhat strained; But never before has it been so comprehensively smashed.

 

[Elixir]

Lol don't travel much, do you?

Not internationally for 6-7 years, no. (Does six flights last week within the US count for "travel"?) And even if I had, I wouldn't be foolish enough to think I could personally gather a representative sample of opinions on how people "over there" view America and/or Trump. That's just the impression I get from media, foreign friends, anecdotes, posts like Jimmy's etc..
I am open to countervailing reports, surveys and opinions if you have some.

If you ask most English or Australian people "Who stands for 'liberty and justice for all'", they will likely say 'Superman' - a fictional character - not 'The USA'. People in those countries (as far as I can tell from living for over twenty years in both) think a lot of things about America, but few regard her as the bastion of liberty or justice. And most recognize that as an historically isolationist nation, most Americans think that 'for all' implies only 'for all Americans'. Americans barely recognize the existence of the rest of the world, and the rest of the world, as a result, do not look to America for moral leadership in anything. America has a lot of clout, both financial and military, but that demands cautious diplomacy, not respect or admiration.

Americans are often surprised by this, perhaps because they are raised with their 'pledge of allegiance' from a young age (by the way, having a 'pledge of allegiance' at all is rather like calling yourself the 'peoples democratic republic' - it really doesn't promote the idea that your nation understands what freedom even IS; Much less that she is some kind of exemplar of liberty and justice).

That your systems are manifestly unjust, with outcomes determined by wealth rather than merit, and with a huge underclass many of whom are incarcerated, and many of whom remain an underclass by virtue of being descended from slaves, does little to boost your 'justice' credentials.

People are, however, used to the POTUS being the representative of his nation, and to the tradition of the Presidency being a position of public service in which the President puts his country ahead of his personal benefit (even if what is good for the USA may not be what is best for the wider world). That tradition has occasionally been somewhat strained; But never before has it been so comprehensively smashed.

Do most of them even think about it? Of those who do, I would assume that most would be aware that despite its actions on the ground, the US leadership (until now) has always espoused life liberty freedom justice and blah blah blah. Maybe that's what separates the image of America the from that of the Donald; he rarely evinces those - or any - principles.
I wonder about Chinese ... the few I know are all offspring of immigrants to the US. Their parents thought the US was great stuff, even after getting bashed around.

 

[bilby]

If you ask most English or Australian people "Who stands for 'liberty and justice for all'", they will likely say 'Superman' - a fictional character - not 'The USA'. People in those countries (as far as I can tell from living for over twenty years in both) think a lot of things about America, but few regard her as the bastion of liberty or justice. And most recognize that as an historically isolationist nation, most Americans think that 'for all' implies only 'for all Americans'. Americans barely recognize the existence of the rest of the world, and the rest of the world, as a result, do not look to America for moral leadership in anything. America has a lot of clout, both financial and military, but that demands cautious diplomacy, not respect or admiration.

Americans are often surprised by this, perhaps because they are raised with their 'pledge of allegiance' from a young age (by the way, having a 'pledge of allegiance' at all is rather like calling yourself the 'peoples democratic republic' - it really doesn't promote the idea that your nation understands what freedom even IS; Much less that she is some kind of exemplar of liberty and justice).

That your systems are manifestly unjust, with outcomes determined by wealth rather than merit, and with a huge underclass many of whom are incarcerated, and many of whom remain an underclass by virtue of being descended from slaves, does little to boost your 'justice' credentials.

People are, however, used to the POTUS being the representative of his nation, and to the tradition of the Presidency being a position of public service in which the President puts his country ahead of his personal benefit (even if what is good for the USA may not be what is best for the wider world). That tradition has occasionally been somewhat strained; But never before has it been so comprehensively smashed.

Do most of them even think about it? Of those who do, I would assume that most would be aware that despite its actions on the ground, the US leadership (until now) has always espoused life liberty freedom justice and blah blah blah. Maybe that's what separates the image of America the from that of the Donald; he rarely evinces those - or any - principles.
I wonder about Chinese ... the few I know are all offspring of immigrants to the US. Their parents thought the US was great stuff, even after getting bashed around.

Well 'better at liberty and justice than China' isn't exactly glowing praise; But it's true enough

 

[Elixir]

If you ask most English or Australian people "Who stands for 'liberty and justice for all'", they will likely say 'Superman' - a fictional character - not 'The USA'. People in those countries (as far as I can tell from living for over twenty years in both) think a lot of things about America, but few regard her as the bastion of liberty or justice. And most recognize that as an historically isolationist nation, most Americans think that 'for all' implies only 'for all Americans'. Americans barely recognize the existence of the rest of the world, and the rest of the world, as a result, do not look to America for moral leadership in anything. America has a lot of clout, both financial and military, but that demands cautious diplomacy, not respect or admiration.

Americans are often surprised by this, perhaps because they are raised with their 'pledge of allegiance' from a young age (by the way, having a 'pledge of allegiance' at all is rather like calling yourself the 'peoples democratic republic' - it really doesn't promote the idea that your nation understands what freedom even IS; Much less that she is some kind of exemplar of liberty and justice).

That your systems are manifestly unjust, with outcomes determined by wealth rather than merit, and with a huge underclass many of whom are incarcerated, and many of whom remain an underclass by virtue of being descended from slaves, does little to boost your 'justice' credentials.

People are, however, used to the POTUS being the representative of his nation, and to the tradition of the Presidency being a position of public service in which the President puts his country ahead of his personal benefit (even if what is good for the USA may not be what is best for the wider world). That tradition has occasionally been somewhat strained; But never before has it been so comprehensively smashed.

Do most of them even think about it? Of those who do, I would assume that most would be aware that despite its actions on the ground, the US leadership (until now) has always espoused life liberty freedom justice and blah blah blah. Maybe that's what separates the image of America the from that of the Donald; he rarely evinces those - or any - principles.
I wonder about Chinese ... the few I know are all offspring of immigrants to the US. Their parents thought the US was great stuff, even after getting bashed around.

Well 'better at liberty and justice than China' isn't exactly glowing praise; But it's true enough

Hey, there's a lot of them - like avogadro's number or something. So it should count for something.