Fundy pastor visits Scandinavia; head explodes

[Clivedurdle]

And interestingly the guy who did believe in god was from Africa. Maybe poverty is the main determinant of religion.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I found the pastor came across as surprisingly decent. I expected him to shout at people and tell them they are going to burn in hell, etc.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I found the pastor came across as surprisingly decent. I expected him to shout at people and tell them they are going to burn in hell, etc.

I think those guys were used on the wife-trading show, fundy women with pagan families, etc.

 

[Earl IV]

Fundy pastor visits Scandinavia; head explodes

Well, that was disappointing.

 

[rousseau]

You left out the need for hate and having enemies, and of course the need to make religion an end unto itself and not a means to something more valuable and productive.

Bolded: a simple yet brilliant summation of what exactly is the problem with religion.

Na, I don't think that's the problem with religion, I think that's the problem with those who follow religion.

At risk of being rude.. you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions, so in terms of social progress they're going to tend to be lacking and behind the times.

Most of the time when I hear people disavow Islam and point to how evil the religion itself is, I point them to how most of the Islamic world is underdeveloped, and undereducated. It's not the religion, it's ignorance.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

Bolded: a simple yet brilliant summation of what exactly is the problem with religion.

Na, I don't think that's the problem with religion, I think that's the problem with those who follow religion.

At risk of being rude.. you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions, so in terms of social progress they're going to tend to be lacking and behind the times.

Most of the time when I hear people disavow Islam and point to how evil the religion itself is, I point them to how most of the Islamic world is underdeveloped, and undereducated. It's not the religion, it's ignorance.

"you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions"
I beg to differ. I've known some very smart people who were nonetheless sincere believers in one or other religion. Usually they've been believers since it was pounded into them from childhood, it's true, but still, they show that high intelligence is no barrier to sincerely believing in bullshit.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Most of the time when I hear people disavow Islam and point to how evil the religion itself is, I point them to how most of the Islamic world is underdeveloped, and undereducated. It's not the religion, it's ignorance.

That's true about everything. It's true about the KKK. People make the rules and people follow the rules. We land spacecraft on comets after billions of miles of travel while we saw a man's head off because he doesn't accept your religious interpretation. If it wasn't true who would think it could be? But it defines us.

Generally speaking, a religious inclination is not a good thing in a person. Maybe this pastor will learn something. But based on my experience, I doubt it.

 

[rousseau]

Na, I don't think that's the problem with religion, I think that's the problem with those who follow religion.

At risk of being rude.. you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions, so in terms of social progress they're going to tend to be lacking and behind the times.

Most of the time when I hear people disavow Islam and point to how evil the religion itself is, I point them to how most of the Islamic world is underdeveloped, and undereducated. It's not the religion, it's ignorance.

"you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions"
I beg to differ. I've known some very smart people who were nonetheless sincere believers in one or other religion. Usually they've been believers since it was pounded into them from childhood, it's true, but still, they show that high intelligence is no barrier to sincerely believing in bullshit.

Maybe so, but for every intelligent religious person there's far more unintelligent ones, which still makes my point relevant: if the people who follow religion were thinking there wouldn't be religion in the first place, let alone social issues with it.

 

[Underseer]

Na, I don't think that's the problem with religion, I think that's the problem with those who follow religion.

At risk of being rude.. you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions, so in terms of social progress they're going to tend to be lacking and behind the times.

Most of the time when I hear people disavow Islam and point to how evil the religion itself is, I point them to how most of the Islamic world is underdeveloped, and undereducated. It's not the religion, it's ignorance.

"you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions"
I beg to differ. I've known some very smart people who were nonetheless sincere believers in one or other religion. Usually they've been believers since it was pounded into them from childhood, it's true, but still, they show that high intelligence is no barrier to sincerely believing in bullshit.

Human beings have a remarkable capacity for compartmentalization.

- - - Updated - - -

"you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions"
I beg to differ. I've known some very smart people who were nonetheless sincere believers in one or other religion. Usually they've been believers since it was pounded into them from childhood, it's true, but still, they show that high intelligence is no barrier to sincerely believing in bullshit.

Maybe so, but for every intelligent religious person there's far more unintelligent ones, which still makes my point relevant: if the people who follow religion were thinking there wouldn't be religion in the first place, let alone social issues with it.

Depending on which study you look at, their average IQ is only 4 to 6 points below our average IQ. While this is surely of interest to sociologists and neuroscientists, in practical terms that difference is simply too small to care about. Religious people aren't stupid, they're indoctrinated. How many stupid things would you believe if you thought it was the only way to avoid eternal torture?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I see religious people as more provincial. Their world is smaller than mine. I think it's impossible to grow up to become a devout christian or devout anything if during that upbringing and subsequently you were constantly brushing shoulders with people who had absolutely no interest in your strange beliefs, or had other strange beliefs of their own.

Your religion teaches you that you are better than those other people but your experience would have taught you otherwise.

 

[Malintent]

Wow, a new religion "Kopinism." Gustav Nipe was glad to share his new religion of copying. https://torrentfreak.com/pirate-kopimism-recognized-as-an-official-word-by-sweden-130102/

What does this have to do with the thread?

If you watched the video that is the basis of this thread, you would know.

 

[Keith&Co.]

if during that upbringing and subsequently you were constantly brushing shoulders with people who had absolutely no interest in your strange beliefs, or had other strange beliefs of their own.

It's not impossible.
When my cousins were little, they would see places of worship around Atlanta and ask: Who are they? and What do they believe?
And we would have an intelligent discussion about the beliefs of Eastern and Western religions, they would ask thoughtful questions, and at the end, nod and say, "Of course, they're wrong and going to burn in Hell.' A well-grounded indoctrination is quite useful when the inductee uses his own mental capabilities to reinforce his indoctrination.

 

[Rhea]

I see religious people as more provincial. Their world is smaller than mine. I think it's impossible to grow up to become a devout christian or devout anything if during that upbringing and subsequently you were constantly brushing shoulders with people who had absolutely no interest in your strange beliefs, or had other strange beliefs of their own.

Your religion teaches you that you are better than those other people but your experience would have taught you otherwise.

except - Mormon Missionaries.

 

[NobleSavage]

He had a learning experience. Good. Do we really need to use the words "freaks out", "mind blown", and "panic attack"? I'd say he was calm, inquisitive, and processing a bunch of new information. That is what I got from the video. I wonder if he will double down on stupidity or question his beliefs.

I don't like the idea of the government forcing a church to marry someone.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I'd say he was calm, inquisitive, and processing a bunch of new information.

I don't think that's quite true.
His summation at the end seems more like he's parroting a standard verbal talisman. There's no god, so 'anything goes.'

We see a lot of that on this board. Accusations that if we don't get morality from God we don't have any morality...

That's what i got, anyway.

I don't like the idea of the government forcing a church to marry someone.

What if it's a state church?
If it's the state's mascot religion, then it should be a church for all the state's citizens, no? So if a particular marriage is legal in, say, Denmark, then the Church of Denmark should perform all legal marriages, i'd think.
I don't believe the legislation he's talking about affects other churches in Denmark.

 

[Valjean]

He had a learning experience. Good. Do we really need to use the words "freaks out", "mind blown", and "panic attack"? I'd say he was calm, inquisitive, and processing a bunch of new information. That is what I got from the video. I wonder if he will double down on stupidity or question his beliefs.

I agree, but he also fails to perceive anything but hedonism and anarchy.

"To each his own, anything goes -- you know, there is no one solid, fundamental base; it's just kind of, whatever you'd like."

My money's on his 'doubling down' and retreating back into the familiar comfort of fundamentalism.

 

[rousseau]

"you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions"
I beg to differ. I've known some very smart people who were nonetheless sincere believers in one or other religion. Usually they've been believers since it was pounded into them from childhood, it's true, but still, they show that high intelligence is no barrier to sincerely believing in bullshit.

Human beings have a remarkable capacity for compartmentalization.

- - - Updated - - -

"you have to be a bit of an idiot to sincerely believe in most religions"
I beg to differ. I've known some very smart people who were nonetheless sincere believers in one or other religion. Usually they've been believers since it was pounded into them from childhood, it's true, but still, they show that high intelligence is no barrier to sincerely believing in bullshit.

Maybe so, but for every intelligent religious person there's far more unintelligent ones, which still makes my point relevant: if the people who follow religion were thinking there wouldn't be religion in the first place, let alone social issues with it.

Depending on which study you look at, their average IQ is only 4 to 6 points below our average IQ. While this is surely of interest to sociologists and neuroscientists, in practical terms that difference is simply too small to care about. Religious people aren't stupid, they're indoctrinated. How many stupid things would you believe if you thought it was the only way to avoid eternal torture?

That actually reinforces my original point, which is that the problem is ignorance, not religion itself. It stands to reason that religious people can still score almost as high as others on IQ tests, but the issue is that they're ignorant (which I defined as stupid). If you remove the ignorance you remove religion and therefore religious problems.

Of course that does put into question the definition of 'stupid'. Maybe it's not that the religious are as smart as the non-religious, but rather the non-religious are still just as dumb as the religious, but in other ways .

 

[Underseer]

You're defining ignorance in a way that is odd to me. Can we just say that the root cause is sloppy thinking?

 

[DrZoidberg]

American pastor travels to Scandinavia. Hilarity ensues

Here's a funny one. A fundamentalist American pastor travels around Scandinavia and interviews people on faith. The humour lies in the way the pastor thinks about faith and religion. Ie, you need some sort of "one solid fundamental base" in life. Which is just something he takes for granted. But which is an idea that everybody he meets thinks is silly. Scandinavians just don't operate on or think in those terms. Everybody here is (probably) comfortable with that there is no any one such fundamental basis in life. At least I've never met anybody here who reasons in that way.

https://richarddawkins.net/2014/11/...s-out-after-discovering-how-secular-they-are/

Well.. I laughed. Maybe it's extra funny for me since I can imagine how the rest of those conversations played out.

 

[Never]

Above post was from a new thread started in Secular Lifestyle. Merged with existing thread on same article.