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Gay marriage in Australia

There may be extreme circumstances where a homosexual couple is the best option but it would be a last resort if it was my son and I think most fellas would feel that 2 homosexual men would be a last resort as preferred option for adopting their baby son.

All other things being equal which male posters would prefer a heterosexual couple over a pair of homosexual men to adopt their baby boy and which male posters would have no preference? (I am assuming we do not need a third option - which male posters would prefer a pair of homosexual men!)
 
There may be extreme circumstances where a homosexual couple is the best option but it would be a last resort if it was my son and I think most fellas would feel that 2 homosexual men would be a last resort as preferred option for adopting their baby son.
Sez you.
I don't believe you're correct on this.
All other things being equal which male posters would prefer a heterosexual couple over a pair of homosexual men to adopt their baby boy and which male posters would have no preference? (I am assuming we do not need a third option - which male posters would prefer a pair of homosexual men!)
I'd prefer family before strangers, mojo. Kids being raised by people that knew me. If my gay cousin was in the best position to raise them, keeping all three together, rather than my sister or sister-in-law, then that would be preferable to wards of the state. Once they're outside of the family, you might as well ask me if i'd prefer right handed or left handed parents.
 
There may be extreme circumstances where a homosexual couple is the best option but it would be a last resort if it was my son and I think most fellas would feel that 2 homosexual men would be a last resort as preferred option for adopting their baby son.

All other things being equal which male posters would prefer a heterosexual couple over a pair of homosexual men to adopt their baby boy and which male posters would have no preference? (I am assuming we do not need a third option - which male posters would prefer a pair of homosexual men!)

Can you explain why you believe homosexual couples make bad parents?
 
There may be extreme circumstances where a homosexual couple is the best option but it would be a last resort if it was my son and I think most fellas would feel that 2 homosexual men would be a last resort as preferred option for adopting their baby son.



Don't you get that your position on gay adoption means it CANNOT be a "last resort"? You want to ban it altogether, even when it's a last resort situation. Your ban legalizes that Ward of the State is better than a loving stable home with two man parents.

And you don't get to take that back just when it happens to YOU.

Also, you didn't answer my question - if YOUR son is gay, are you ready to look him in the eye and say you supported denying him a right to marry or to adopt his partner's kids? Are you ready to look YOUR son in the eye and tell him you hate the idea of him being able to marry the consenting adult of his heart? Are you going to tell him you think he's unnatural? "Son, you are a genetic aberration, and we don't understand you yet, so I've helped support laws that deny you marriage. Love ya son, hate your aberration. No marriage security for you!"

All other things being equal which male posters would prefer a heterosexual couple over a pair of homosexual men to adopt their baby boy and which male posters would have no preference? (I am assuming we do not need a third option - which male posters would prefer a pair of homosexual men!)

Why are you only asking men? I'm a parent. I have two children. I honestly could not care less whether the couple is hetero or homo. If they were stable, reliable and loving, they would be among those I'd pick.

If I'm writing laws to cover things like what can happen if my child is utterly orphaned, would I want a law that forces my children to be wards of the state rather than available for a gay couple to adopt, I'd say, hell no, not a ward of the state! Not if there is a loving couple ready to given them a home!

We parents go through this VERY seriously when we have kids. It's one of the documents that you do with great thought (and fear). Who will take your kids if you both go. You think about who knows your wishes well, who will follow them, who can follow them, who is a good match for the communication style your children understand, what kind of discipline do they use. What else is going on in their lives that would keep them from being able to give all the things that you picked them for being able to give. Who else in THEIR family provides additional comfort - or additional risk.

What you DON'T think about is how they like their sex.

I think you'll find that most guys - who are parents - will agree.
 
There may be extreme circumstances where a homosexual couple is the best option


Are we talking post apocalyptic shit here?


I mean it seems like you're arguing that the only scenario where your boy could be adopted by a couple of gay dudes is one where your son finds himself in the wasteland after the world has gone mad. A feral boy, looking to carve out his existence among the few remaining survivors.


Then along comes a fella...a clever fella...a quick fella...who manages to inspire your kid's protectors to make a break for it. Canning all the gasoline...the precious juice...into containers that they carry with them to the new promised land.
 
Meanwhile, all the OTHER kids waiting on adoption rolls NOW without any hetero couples in sight, have to just sit there as wards of the state because mojo's apocalypse hasn't happened and he doesn't actually care about THOSE kids. Ban teh gays!
 
Rhea said:
Don't you get that your position on gay adoption means it CANNOT be a "last resort"?

My position is that homosexuality is a tolerated sexual aberration. It is not a relationship type that should be promoted by presenting it in a fashion that equates homosexuality with heterosexuality in terms of cultural acceptability. Homosexuals may be decent people and capable of providing care for a child but they should be at the end of the pecking order when it comes to adoption due to the poor example that their aberrant sexuality sets to impressionable children.

Rhea said:
if YOUR son is gay, are you ready to look him in the eye and say you supported denying him a right to marry or to adopt his partner's kids? Are you ready to look YOUR son in the eye and tell him you hate the idea of him being able to marry the consenting adult of his heart?

If my son were a homosexual that would be unfortunate for me and for him but he would be my son so I would love him anyway. I would be happy for him to have a legally supported civil union with his chosen BF. If gay marriage were legal I would even attend his wedding as a concession to our relationship but it would not change my belief that marriage is a heterosexual cultural and legal institution and that the political hijacking of the institution for the furthering of a political agenda is an incongruous act of social vandalism.
 
My position is that homosexuality is a tolerated sexual aberration. It is not a relationship type that should be promoted by presenting it in a fashion that equates homosexuality with heterosexuality in terms of cultural acceptability. Homosexuals may be decent people and capable of providing care for a child but they should be at the end of the pecking order when it comes to adoption due to the poor example that their aberrant sexuality sets to impressionable children.

Do you envision the children watching their parents performing these aberrant sexual acts on each other? My girlfriend and I are into some crazy stuff. If we had kids, I'm fairly certain they wouldn't know anything about our sex life. We certainly wouldn't make the impressionable children watch. Is it just the sex acts that you find disturbing or is it the emotional connections as well?


mojorising said:
If my son were a homosexual that would be unfortunate for me and for him but he would be my son so I would love him anyway. I would be happy for him to have a legally supported civil union with his chosen BF. If gay marriage were legal I would even attend his wedding as a concession to our relationship but it would not change my belief that marriage is a heterosexual cultural and legal institution and that the political hijacking of the institution for the furthering of a political agenda is an incongruous act of social vandalism.

I haven't really participated in this thread but I have been following along. I notice that you keep saying it's just a political agenda or a political hijacking. Why do you not think it started as a cultural shift (which happens all the time) prior to it becoming a political agenda? In order for a political agenda to really take hold, a cultural shift needs to happen that allows that particular political viewpoint to gain momentum. The population as a whole (here in the US. I can't speak for Oz) is trending toward full acceptance so why wouldn't the politicians run with it?
 
It is not a relationship type that should be promoted by presenting it in a fashion that equates homosexuality with heterosexuality in terms of cultural acceptability.
Why not?
Homosexuals may be decent people and capable of providing care for a child but they should be at the end of the pecking order when it comes to adoption due to the poor example that their aberrant sexuality sets to impressionable children.
What makes it a poor example?
Do you believe homosexuality is contagious?
If gay marriage were legal I would even attend his wedding as a concession to our relationship
Fucking big of you.
but it would not change my belief that marriage is a heterosexual cultural and legal institution and that the political hijacking of the institution for the furthering of a political agenda is an incongruous act of social vandalism.
You keep claiming this, too. What would it take to convince you that it's true change, not a passing fad?
 
cycomiko said:
Do you envision the children watching their parents performing these aberrant sexual acts on each other? My girlfriend and I are into some crazy stuff. If we had kids, I'm fairly certain they wouldn't know anything about our sex life.

It is not the sexual act that is the problem (why would children be party to what goes on in the bedroom between their care-givers), it is the implicit sexual attraction being presented as normal that is the problem. It is not normal, it is a developmental defect in my opinion and there are no scientists who will knowledgably disagree since science does not yet know what causes homosexuality.

cycomiko said:
Why do you not think it started as a cultural shift (which happens all the time) prior to it becoming a political agenda? In order for a political agenda to really take hold, a cultural shift needs to happen that allows that particular political viewpoint to gain momentum. The population as a whole (here in the US. I can't speak for Oz) is trending toward full acceptance so why wouldn't the politicians run with it?

I think the current push for legislation is just a desperate grab before the pendulum swings back and a more objective view of homosexuality is reached.

Keith said:
You keep claiming this, too. What would it take to convince you that it's true change, not a passing fad?

If there were a truly convincing reason presented for why homosexuality exists and its evolutionary presence makes sense for the species then that would be a start.
 
Mojo, do you know what "causes" left handedness?
Is the fact that it's a genetic option that you don't understand a reason to deny them the right to use their left hand for stuff?

Please explain how EVERY OTHER genetic diversity is not an "aberration" that needs to be banned from expressing itself.
EXPLAIN THAT. Shall we make a list of them?

Blonde is an aberration.
Left Handed
Lack of wisdom teeth
Want to try sexually promiscuous?
How about the gene that allows people to consider cilantro tasty? Should cilantro be banned because this is not "normal"?
Male pattern baldness - should these people be forced to wear hats so that you don't have to see their "abnormality" and it can be properly condemned by law?
Obesity. Ban those folks from eating, right? Because it's an aberration?
Morton's toe. Do you have this? Is your middle toe longer than your big toe? An aberration - and you should not be allowed to wear sandals and pretend that you are normal.
How about men taller than 6'3" Who lets them out in public, anyway?

And, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY! What about blonde left-handed bald cilantro-loving obese tall men with Morton's Toe and no wisdom teeth!?!? LOCK THEM AWAY FROM YOUR CHILDREN!

Also:
http://www.livescience.com/50058-being-gay-not-a-choice.html
Humans aren't the only species that has same-sex pairings. For instance, female Japanese macaques may sometimes participate in energetic sexual stimulation. Lions, chimpanzees, bison and dolphins have also been spotted in same-sex pairings. And nearly 130 bird species have been observed engaging in sexual activities with same-sex partners.

While the evolutionary purpose of this behavior is not clear, the fact that animals routinely exhibit same-sex behavior belies the notion that gay sex is a modern human innovation.

No studies have found specific "gay genes" that reliably make someone gay. But some genes may make being gay likelier. For instance, a 2014 study in the journal Psychological Medicine showed that a gene on the X chromosome (one of the sex chromosomes) called Xq28 and a gene on chromosome 8 seem to be found in higher prevalence in men who are gay. That study, involving more than 400 pairs of gay brothers, followed the 1993 report by geneticist Dean Hamer suggesting the existence of a "gay gene." Other research has found that being gay or lesbian tends to run in families. It's also more likely for two identical twins, who shareall of their genes, to both be gay than it is for two fraternal twins, who share just half of their genes, to both be homosexual. Those studies also suggest that genes seemed to have a greater influence on the sexual orientation of male versus female identical twins.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...uality-how-our-genes-make-us-gay-or-straight/
The claim that homosexual men share a “gay gene” created a furor in the 1990s. But new research two decades on supports this claim – and adds another candidate gene.

To an evolutionary geneticist, the idea that a person’s genetic makeup affects their mating preference is unsurprising. We see it in the animal world all the time. There are probably many genes that affect human sexual orientation.

But rather than thinking of them as “gay genes,” perhaps we should consider them “male-loving genes.” They may be common because these variant genes, in a female, predispose her to mate earlier and more often and to have more children.

Likewise, it would be surprising if there were not “female-loving genes” in lesbian women that, in a male, predispose him to mate earlier and have more children.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/feb/14/genes-influence-male-sexual-orientation-study
A study of gay men in the US has found fresh evidence that male sexual orientation is influenced by genes. Scientists tested the DNA of 400 gay men and found that genes on at least two chromosomes affected whether a man was gay or straight.

A region of the X chromosome called Xq28 had some impact on men's sexual behaviour – though scientists have no idea which of the many genes in the region are involved, nor how many lie elsewhere in the genome.
 
So unless and until you are ready to ban ALL INSTANCES of a genetic "aberration" for which you "don't understand the cause," then you just sound like a bullying asshole about this one.

And I hope you never have a gay son that you will bully and be an asshole to, as you're saying you will. There are enough gay kids with asshole parents and I feel compassion for the pain they are put through from the people who are supposed to love them - all of them. If you have a kid with Down Syndrome, are you planning on reminding them all the time that they should not "act on it" where you can see? maybe you can get some surgeries so that you don't have to see their undesireable "aberration."
 
Keith said:
You keep claiming this, too. What would it take to convince you that it's true change, not a passing fad?

If there were a truly convincing reason presented for why homosexuality exists and its evolutionary presence makes sense for the species then that would be a start.

How the fuck is that an answer? It wouldn't be fad politics if we really understood what caused it to evolve? That's just bizarre.

The fact is, we haven't yet identified a species in which homosexuality NEVER happens. It is natural, mojo. It's all over the place. You haven't provided the slightest reason to treat it as an aberration, besides your personal opinion. And that's also the only support you have for it being a political fad, vice actual, reasonable change. And your basis for the phantom majority you think would agree with you.

So, wow, your legislation won't achieve the goals you desire, and you can't support your desires, either.
 
It is not the sexual act that is the problem (why would children be party to what goes on in the bedroom between their care-givers), it is the implicit sexual attraction being presented as normal that is the problem. It is not normal, it is a developmental defect in my opinion and there are no scientists who will knowledgably disagree since science does not yet know what causes homosexuality.

You have it exactly backwards. You sort of do have a point that marriage has traditionally overwhelmingly been between a man and a woman (though you failed to explain yourself how that's relevant to what ought be), and indeed many (though far not all) societies penalised homosexual acts, the whole concept that normal people are never attracted to someone of the same sex is a modern fad really. When you read Paul's letters and what he says about homosexual acts, it's pretty clear he isn't preaching to The Gays, he's preaching to everyone telling them to refrain from that kind of fun because it's a sin, obviously assuming that a whole bunch of "normal" people would be tempted to commit it. When reading Shakespeare's Sonnet 20, the modern reader is tempted to ask himself "was Shakespeare gay"? To his contemporaries, that wouldn't have been a meaningful question. "So he fell in love with a man? Bad luck for him, because he won't be able to live it out. I got lucky it never happened to me" - would be their predominant reaction.

In other words, marriage has indeed oftentimes been exclusively between men and women - but not because it was considered unnatural for a man to fall in love with a man (or a woman with a woman), but because marriage was mostly about pragmatics and love or even attraction often played a rather minor role.

cycomiko said:
Why do you not think it started as a cultural shift (which happens all the time) prior to it becoming a political agenda? In order for a political agenda to really take hold, a cultural shift needs to happen that allows that particular political viewpoint to gain momentum. The population as a whole (here in the US. I can't speak for Oz) is trending toward full acceptance so why wouldn't the politicians run with it?

I think the current push for legislation is just a desperate grab before the pendulum swings back and a more objective view of homosexuality is reached.

You've told us ad nauseam what you believe. The question was why.

Keith said:
You keep claiming this, too. What would it take to convince you that it's true change, not a passing fad?

If there were a truly convincing reason presented for why homosexuality exists and its evolutionary presence makes sense for the species then that would be a start.

If you presented a convincing reason for why that'd matter, that'd be very dandy too. We've been asking you for what, 80 pages of discussion for sure.
 
Rhea said:
Blonde is an aberration.
Left Handed
Lack of wisdom teeth
Want to try sexually promiscuous?
How about the gene that allows people to consider cilantro tasty? Should cilantro be banned because this is not "normal"?
Male pattern baldness - should these people be forced to wear hats so that you don't have to see their "abnormality" and it can be properly condemned by law?
Obesity. Ban those folks from eating, right? Because it's an aberration?
Morton's toe. Do you have this? Is your middle toe longer than your big toe? An aberration - and you should not be allowed to wear sandals and pretend that you are normal.
How about men taller than 6'3" Who lets them out in public, anyway?

These are trivial variances from the norm.

They cannot be compared with sexuality since sexuality is a primal feature of human nature. In some ways it is the defining feature, the big kahuna of features. It is the reason we are here. To reproduce. Sexuality is the emotional force behind the primal reason for each of us being here at the end of a line of evolution stretching back hundreds of millions of years.

So when it goes wrong it is not comparable to being left handed. It is a big deal.

Homosexuality appears to be human sexuality gone wrong for reasons we do not yet understand.

Nobody wants to victimise people who suffer from homosexuality but neither are we obliged to stage a pantomime where we all put on smiley faces and pretend that everything is fine and homosexuality is just exactly the same as heterosexuality and there is nothing to see here folks, just move along.

It is the fantasy world of political correctness. It is embarrassing to see such large numbers of the population taken in by this political gong show.

Homosexuality should be tolerated since it is not the homosexual's fault. A mature and inclusive society should even go out of its way to make room for these folk until we know more about the condition but please stop trying to tell us that it is 100% A-OK and that even thinking that homosexuals are 'different' (yes, in a way that matters) is an 'evil' thought-crime.
 
These are trivial variances from the norm.
Ah! And you're finally going to tell us how homosexuality is a significant difference from the norm! In ways that should lead to legal significance! Alright!
They cannot be compared with sexuality since sexuality is a primal feature of human nature. In some ways it is the defining feature, the big kahuna of features.
What ways?
It is the reason we are here. To reproduce.
You can show this to be true?
All humanity is for sex and sex is for reproduction?
It doesn't have any sort of bonding significance?
Sexuality is the emotional force behind the primal reason for each of us being here at the end of a line of evolution stretching back hundreds of millions of years.
Well, no. In addition to my parents fucking, they also had to raise me. The fucking was over fairly quickly. It is almost insignificant compared to sustained guidance to keep me alive for 18 years and teach me the skills to keep myself alive for another 35 years.
My parents could have flat out lost their sexual drives the day I was conceived and nothing much would have changed over the next 53 years. Well, except for the day I walked into their bedroom and caught them...
So when it goes wrong it is not comparable to being left handed. It is a big deal.
So, you've yet to actually show that homosexuality is WRONG.
Homosexuality appears to be human sexuality gone wrong for reasons we do not yet understand.
No, it doesn't appear to be wrong.
Not with so much homosexual behavior in the biosphere.
Nobody wants to victimise people who suffer from homosexuality but neither are we obliged to stage a pantomime where we all put on smiley faces and pretend that everything is fine and homosexuality is just exactly the same as heterosexuality and there is nothing to see here folks, just move along.
You're not obliged to do anything, mojo. But, if you've got nothing to show for your opinion than more opinion, none of the rest of us are obliged to give a shit about your sermon.
It is the fantasy world of political correctness.
Another unsupported opinion.
It is embarrassing to see such large numbers of the population taken in by this political gong show.
Your interpretation of the change going on in our culture is embarrassing, mojo.
Homosexuality should be tolerated since it is not the homosexual's fault.
Fault?
Fuck off.
A mature and inclusive society should even go out of its way to make room for these folk until we know more about the condition but please stop trying to tell us that it is 100% A-OK and that even thinking that homosexuals are 'different' (yes, in a way that matters) is an 'evil' thought-crime.
THINKING they're different isn't a hate crime.
TREATING them different, with no sound basis to do so, is a hate crime.

You want to legislate discrimination, mojo.
You SHOULD be ashamed of yourself.
 
These are trivial variances from the norm.
Oh?
You don't realize how ridiculous this position is?
Obesity is a trivial difference from the norm? Left handedness, which can result in such major differences as inability to perform certain tasks without accommodation tools?

You're just makign shit up, now.

Homosexuality has all the same parts. They just put them into people you don't approve of. There's no outward physical difference, it is EXACTLY like left-handedness. Same equipment, not be used the way you do.

It's ridiculous for you try to convince us - or yourself - that it is any less trivial than being a spacial thinker as opposed to a linear one, or an extrovert instead of an introvert or a pessimist (those freaks!) versus an optimist.

See, here's the thing that you (laughably) keep ignoring. ALL of the sexual things that homosexuals do, some heterosexuals do ALSO. They have sex just for fun with no desire for procreation. They stick penises into anuses, they stick fingers into vaginas, they stick vaginas into mouths. The list goes on and on.

There is NOTHING about homosexuality that is particularly out of any "norm."

I suspect you actually know this. That's why you won't actually enumerate or discuss any actual differences.

You mentioned that you are not married. I don't know if you're also a virgin, or if you are childless. Or even if you are past puberty. But you HAVE to realize that if you are past puberty and not sexually active that is NOT THE NORM, evolutionarily. And if you don't yet have children that is ABSOLUTELY a violation of your own claim of what should be legally pursued; "reproduction".

At least the homosexuals are trying. Following their evolutionary imperative.

It's like jailing drunk drivers but not those who fall asleep at the wheel. At least the drunks are TRYING.

You're not even doing as much as an earthworm (who will mate, it should be noted, with any earthworm it finds).
They cannot be compared with sexuality since sexuality is a primal feature of human nature.
What? No it's not. Sexuality is NOT what separates us from other animals.
In some ways it is the defining feature, the big kahuna of features.
It's the defining feature of _LIFE_, not humans. It's what separates us and the fungi from rocks, for instance.


It is the reason we are here. To reproduce.
Aaaaaaah. The old "we have a "reason" to be here Schtick. Sounds religious.
Doood. No reasons. We just are.
Reproduction is one of the ways we are still here.
Another is breathing. That keeps us around, too.
So does eating.
And competing for food.
There are lots of species that had the mating thing down, but lost the evolutionary battle. Ask the dinosaurs about that one, eh?


Sexuality is the emotional force behind the primal reason for each of us being here at the end of a line of evolution stretching back hundreds of millions of years.

So when it goes wrong it is not comparable to being left handed. It is a big deal.
Nah, it isn't.
Humans have had barren members of the population since we crawled out of the sea. It's just about the odds, dude. You just need to have ENOUGH of the population reproduce to maintain.

Wouldn't the joke totally be on YOU if the evolutionary benefit of homosexuality was in regulating the population in times of famine, overcrowding or stress such that reductions in growth rate take place without war? And that the existence of homosexual members of the population is the REASON we out-survived the dinosaurs?

And you can't dispute that possibility. So you should not be dissing the gays.
Homosexuality appears to be human sexuality gone wrong for reasons we do not yet understand.

Nobody wants to victimise people who suffer from homosexuality but neither are we obliged to stage a pantomime where we all put on smiley faces and pretend that everything is fine and homosexuality is just exactly the same as heterosexuality and there is nothing to see here folks, just move along.


Meh, it only appears that way to those of limited imagination.

And yes, you do want to victimize homosexuals by making DAMN SURE they know you think they aren't full members of society. That without whatever gene expression that makes vaginas desirable for their penises, they aren't full members of society.
It is the fantasy world of political correctness. It is embarrassing to see such large numbers of the population taken in by this political gong show.
Remember what lamenting "political correctness" means, mojo. It means, "goddamnit, why can't we just call them niggers anymore?" Politically Correct means the position that is held by the majority of the political voters. The position necessary for winning popular elections. To rail against political correctness is to rail against the overwhelming majority opinion. That's what it means.

You're the freak here.
Homosexuality should be tolerated since it is not the homosexual's fault. A mature and inclusive society should even go out of its way to make room for these folk until we know more about the condition but please stop trying to tell us that it is 100% A-OK and that even thinking that homosexuals are 'different' (yes, in a way that matters) is an 'evil' thought-crime.

Straw man, mojo. You can think they're different all you want. I do. What I DON'T think is that they should be denied any rights or equal protection under the law. And yes, it's evil that anyone would. "They" are your fellow humans. They might even be yourself.
 
Rhea said:
Blonde is an aberration.
Left Handed
Lack of wisdom teeth
Want to try sexually promiscuous?
How about the gene that allows people to consider cilantro tasty? Should cilantro be banned because this is not "normal"?
Male pattern baldness - should these people be forced to wear hats so that you don't have to see their "abnormality" and it can be properly condemned by law?
Obesity. Ban those folks from eating, right? Because it's an aberration?
Morton's toe. Do you have this? Is your middle toe longer than your big toe? An aberration - and you should not be allowed to wear sandals and pretend that you are normal.
How about men taller than 6'3" Who lets them out in public, anyway?

These are trivial variances from the norm.
No more or less trivial than homosexuality.

Left-handed people used to be forced into right-handedness because being left-handed was considered WRONG - just like you still claim homesexuality is.

They cannot be compared with sexuality since sexuality is a primal feature of human nature. In some ways it is the defining feature, the big kahuna of features. It is the reason we are here. To reproduce.
Which, even if that were true, has nothing to do with "marriage". If "to reproduce" was the defining feature of "marriage", you would have to also ban marriage for infertile couples. Is that what you advocate for?

So when it goes wrong it is not comparable to being left handed. It is a big deal.
No more or less a big deal than being left-handed was at various times in history.

Under the misguided aegis of the powerful Catholic Church, left-handedness was vigorously oppressed in medieval Europe, albeit not in any systematic way. Left-handers were routinely accused of consorting with the devil and, during the excesses of the Inquisition and the witch hunts of the 15th and 16th Century, left-handedness was sometimes considered sufficient to identify a woman as a witch, and to contribute to her subsequent condemnation and execution.

Despite the limited reforms of the Age of Reason and the Age of Enlightenment, the 18th and 19th Century were particularly hard on left-handers, and discrimination against them became engrained and institutionalized. Even in the relatively free societies of North America and Western Europe, deliberate and sometimes brutal attempts to suppress left-handedness and impose conformity in the education system were endemic during this time, including such practices as tying a child’s left hand behind his chair or corporal punishment for anyone caught writing with the left hand.

But discriminatory practices and attitudes against left-handers persisted well into the 20th Century. At mid-century, eminent American psychoanalyst Abram Blau was still suggesting that left-handedness was merely due to perversity and the result of emotional negativism, on a par with a child’s obstinate refusal to eat everything on its plate. As adults, Blau asserted, left-handers became stubborn, rebellious, rigid and (for some reason) obsessed with cleanliness. Around the same time, the influential British educational psychologist Cyril Burt was also describing left-handers as “stubborn and willful” as well as “awkward” and “clumsy”.
http://www.rightleftrightwrong.com/history_recent.html
 
RavenSky said:
No more or less trivial than homosexuality.

Left-handed people used to be forced into right-handedness because being left-handed was considered WRONG - just like you still claim homesexuality is.

It is a poor comparison.

Left handedness does not disable the individual in any objective way. It is just a minority trait.

Homosexuality disables the individual from engaging in natural reproduction. It is very likely to be a developmental defect rather than simply a minority difference.

Rhea said:
Remember what lamenting "political correctness" means, mojo. It means, "goddamnit, why can't we just call them niggers anymore?" Politically Correct means the position that is held by the majority of the political voters. The position necessary for winning popular elections. To rail against political correctness is to rail against the overwhelming majority opinion. That's what it means.

That is not what political correctness means. It means adopting a political position motivated primarily out of a precious fear of offending a minority which is precisely the charge I am aiming at you and the political attitudes of people who want to make a fabricated assertion that homosexuality is an equally valid form of human sexual expression as heterosexuality.

It is not equally valid. It is in all likelihood a developmental defect.

Extending tolerance for these activities and even creating legal structures to support them are as generous as society realistically needs to be w.r.t. homosexuality.

The motivation to redefine cultural institutions which were implicitly and explicitly heterosexual in nature just so that homosexuals can have a warm fuzzy feeling is 'political correctness'.
 
Left handedness does not disable the individual in any objective way.
it does if the culture discriminates against those that exhibit the trait.
Seems like quite a good comparison with homosexuality.
Homosexuality disables the individual from engaging in natural reproduction. It is very likely to be a developmental defect rather than simply a minority difference.
Once more, an IOU for scientific evidence to be provided at a later date...
And still no reason that connects this alleged fact to a reason to discriminate against the individuals.
That is not what political correctness means. It means adopting a political position motivated primarily out of a precious fear of offending a minority which is precisely the charge I am aiming at you and the political attitudes of people who want to make a fabricated assertion that homosexuality is an equally valid form of human sexual expression as heterosexuality.
Another insulting strawman, mojo.
That's not what we want to express. So your accusation is just fucking wrong.
It is not equally valid. It is in all likelihood a developmental defect.
And we care, why?
Extending tolerance for these activities and even creating legal structures to support them are as generous as society realistically needs to be w.r.t. homosexuality.
But not with respect to homoSEXUALS. THAT is our point, not the farce you're pretending we're presenting.
The motivation to redefine cultural institutions which were implicitly and explicitly heterosexual in nature just so that homosexuals can have a warm fuzzy feeling is 'political correctness'.
Might be.
But resisting equality for homosexuals is being politically correct to an attitude that's fallen out of favor in recent years. Your attachment to outmoded politics is making you something of a misfit, mojo. Once again, you stand in opposition to the majority. Whining about a mythical majority opinion isn't helping you any.
 
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