Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

You are aware that even after being absolutely obliterated Hamas is still fighting. They're not a rational oponents. They're clearly willing to sacrifice every Palestinian life before they give up.

That is not a valid rational for Israel to help them achieve that goal.

So how do you suggest Israel removes Hamas from power? In your mind, what other options do you think Israel have? Assuming Isreal isn't disolved as a country?

 

[laughing dog]

The problem is you are proposing a fantasy solution.

The problem here is that this isn't my proposal, it's Israel's. I've explained that repeatedly, yet you keep arguing with me as though I personally drafted the policy. At some point, you're going to have to force that through your remarkably thick skull: I'm describing Israel's stated position, not presenting my own peace plan for your approval. Not a single living creature on earth is seeking your approval on anything.

I don't think Israel at any point since the 7/10 attacks have entertained the idea of Gazan self rule. I think that attack permanently removed that option from the table. So in Israeli parlance, removing Hamas, means Israel taking over.

Israel have tried their damndest to find a Muslim country they can give Gaza to. But they all keep saying no. Muslims are often also sick and tired of Muslim extremism. Which is a thing.

The Israeli overkill response tp 10/7 surely made a helluva a lot more potential Palestinian terrorists.

What could Israel have done that you would not consider to be overkill?

How about not dropping bombs that destroy entire neighborhoods. If you know where Hamas is, fire a missile right up their asses.

Yet Hamas has a distressing tendency to put missile launchers in streets between houses.
Israel fires a missiles, hits rocket launcher. Destroys, damages housing. Tragically locals are killed, hurt. You complain about Israel.
What should Israel do?

I already said it. You just repeated it. Yes, missiles are indiscriminate and will cause collateral damage. They don't destroy entire neighborhoods and bury 500 people under rubble to get one rocket laucher.

5000 lb bombs have a lethal radius of 650 feet and a severe structure damage of over 2600 feet, almost a half mile. They should not be used in urban settings at all, unless killing civilians is part of the plan.

So let's all be angry at Hamas for forcing Israels hand.

Given the circumstances Israel had no other option. And Hamas knew it.

The attack was to force Israel into an impossible situation where, no matter what they did, they'd look bad

So please blame the people responsible for the Palestinian suffering, Hamas

Hamas gave the gov't of Israel absolutely no choice on how to proceed in prosecuting the war. None whatsoever.

What utter hogwash.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The problem is you are proposing a fantasy solution.

The problem here is that this isn't my proposal, it's Israel's. I've explained that repeatedly, yet you keep arguing with me as though I personally drafted the policy. At some point, you're going to have to force that through your remarkably thick skull: I'm describing Israel's stated position, not presenting my own peace plan for your approval. Not a single living creature on earth is seeking your approval on anything.

I don't think Israel at any point since the 7/10 attacks have entertained the idea of Gazan self rule. I think that attack permanently removed that option from the table. So in Israeli parlance, removing Hamas, means Israel taking over.

Israel have tried their damndest to find a Muslim country they can give Gaza to. But they all keep saying no. Muslims are often also sick and tired of Muslim extremism. Which is a thing.

The Israeli overkill response tp 10/7 surely made a helluva a lot more potential Palestinian terrorists.

What could Israel have done that you would not consider to be overkill?

How about not dropping bombs that destroy entire neighborhoods. If you know where Hamas is, fire a missile right up their asses.

Yet Hamas has a distressing tendency to put missile launchers in streets between houses.
Israel fires a missiles, hits rocket launcher. Destroys, damages housing. Tragically locals are killed, hurt. You complain about Israel.
What should Israel do?

I already said it. You just repeated it. Yes, missiles are indiscriminate and will cause collateral damage. They don't destroy entire neighborhoods and bury 500 people under rubble to get one rocket laucher.

5000 lb bombs have a lethal radius of 650 feet and a severe structure damage of over 2600 feet, almost a half mile. They should not be used in urban settings at all, unless killing civilians is part of the plan.

So let's all be angry at Hamas for forcing Israels hand.

Given the circumstances Israel had no other option. And Hamas knew it.

The attack was to force Israel into an impossible situation where, no matter what they did, they'd look bad

So please blame the people responsible for the Palestinian suffering, Hamas

Hamas gave the gov't of Israel absolutely no choice on how to proceed in prosecuting the war. None whatsoever.

What utter hogwash.

Ok, let's hear it. What was the alternatives?

 

[laughing dog]

The problem is you are proposing a fantasy solution.

The problem here is that this isn't my proposal, it's Israel's. I've explained that repeatedly, yet you keep arguing with me as though I personally drafted the policy. At some point, you're going to have to force that through your remarkably thick skull: I'm describing Israel's stated position, not presenting my own peace plan for your approval. Not a single living creature on earth is seeking your approval on anything.

I don't think Israel at any point since the 7/10 attacks have entertained the idea of Gazan self rule. I think that attack permanently removed that option from the table. So in Israeli parlance, removing Hamas, means Israel taking over.

Israel have tried their damndest to find a Muslim country they can give Gaza to. But they all keep saying no. Muslims are often also sick and tired of Muslim extremism. Which is a thing.

The Israeli overkill response tp 10/7 surely made a helluva a lot more potential Palestinian terrorists.

What could Israel have done that you would not consider to be overkill?

How about not dropping bombs that destroy entire neighborhoods. If you know where Hamas is, fire a missile right up their asses.

Yet Hamas has a distressing tendency to put missile launchers in streets between houses.
Israel fires a missiles, hits rocket launcher. Destroys, damages housing. Tragically locals are killed, hurt. You complain about Israel.
What should Israel do?

I already said it. You just repeated it. Yes, missiles are indiscriminate and will cause collateral damage. They don't destroy entire neighborhoods and bury 500 people under rubble to get one rocket laucher.

5000 lb bombs have a lethal radius of 650 feet and a severe structure damage of over 2600 feet, almost a half mile. They should not be used in urban settings at all, unless killing civilians is part of the plan.

So let's all be angry at Hamas for forcing Israels hand.

Given the circumstances Israel had no other option. And Hamas knew it.

The attack was to force Israel into an impossible situation where, no matter what they did, they'd look bad

So please blame the people responsible for the Palestinian suffering, Hamas

Hamas gave the gov't of Israel absolutely no choice on how to proceed in prosecuting the war. None whatsoever.

What utter hogwash.

Ok, let's hear it. What was the alternatives?

Plenty of alternatives. Targeted assignations of leadership. Or not waiting until the target went home before dropping a bomb on the structure. Those are just two options.

And every possible course of options has its drawbacks and its benefits.

There was plenty of diverse opinion within Israel as to how to proceed.

The point is that the gov’t of Israel has and had agency. It made choices. And, it appears that some of the factors influencing the choices had nothing to do with taking Hamas out or keeping Israelis safe.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The problem is you are proposing a fantasy solution.

The problem here is that this isn't my proposal, it's Israel's. I've explained that repeatedly, yet you keep arguing with me as though I personally drafted the policy. At some point, you're going to have to force that through your remarkably thick skull: I'm describing Israel's stated position, not presenting my own peace plan for your approval. Not a single living creature on earth is seeking your approval on anything.

I don't think Israel at any point since the 7/10 attacks have entertained the idea of Gazan self rule. I think that attack permanently removed that option from the table. So in Israeli parlance, removing Hamas, means Israel taking over.

Israel have tried their damndest to find a Muslim country they can give Gaza to. But they all keep saying no. Muslims are often also sick and tired of Muslim extremism. Which is a thing.

The Israeli overkill response tp 10/7 surely made a helluva a lot more potential Palestinian terrorists.

What could Israel have done that you would not consider to be overkill?

How about not dropping bombs that destroy entire neighborhoods. If you know where Hamas is, fire a missile right up their asses.

Yet Hamas has a distressing tendency to put missile launchers in streets between houses.
Israel fires a missiles, hits rocket launcher. Destroys, damages housing. Tragically locals are killed, hurt. You complain about Israel.
What should Israel do?

I already said it. You just repeated it. Yes, missiles are indiscriminate and will cause collateral damage. They don't destroy entire neighborhoods and bury 500 people under rubble to get one rocket laucher.

5000 lb bombs have a lethal radius of 650 feet and a severe structure damage of over 2600 feet, almost a half mile. They should not be used in urban settings at all, unless killing civilians is part of the plan.

So let's all be angry at Hamas for forcing Israels hand.

Given the circumstances Israel had no other option. And Hamas knew it.

The attack was to force Israel into an impossible situation where, no matter what they did, they'd look bad

So please blame the people responsible for the Palestinian suffering, Hamas

Hamas gave the gov't of Israel absolutely no choice on how to proceed in prosecuting the war. None whatsoever.

What utter hogwash.

Ok, let's hear it. What was the alternatives?

Plenty of alternatives. Targeted assignations of leadership.

I guess it must have slipped your mind that they tried that?

And they got told off by Trump for trying. The Hamas leaders live in Qatar

Or not waiting until the target went home before dropping a bomb on the structure. Those are just two options.

I don't understand what this means?

And every possible course of options has its drawbacks and its benefits.

There was plenty of diverse opinion within Israel as to how to proceed.

The point is that the gov’t of Israel has and had agency. It made choices. And, it appears that some of the factors influencing the choices had nothing to do with taking Hamas out or keeping Israelis safe.

You make it sound like Israel is all powerful.

They had limited options and used their available tools well... I think

 

[laughing dog]

Plenty of alternatives. Targeted assignations of leadership.

I guess it must have slipped your mind that they tried that?

And they got told off by Trump for trying. The Hamas leaders live in Qatar

They didn’t try targeted killings in Gaza. And bombing the crap out of Gaza doesn’t affect Hamas in Qatar.

And every possible course of options has its drawbacks and its benefits.

There was plenty of diverse opinion within Israel as to how to proceed.

The point is that the gov’t of Israel has and had agency. It made choices. And, it appears that some of the factors influencing the choices had nothing to do with taking Hamas out or keeping Israelis safe.

You make it sound like Israel is all powerful.

They had limited options and used their available tools well... I think

Of course you feel that way. Those who don’t share such feelings are not necessarily antisemitic nor wrong.

 

[TomC]

They didn’t try targeted killings in Gaza. And bombing the crap out of Gaza doesn’t affect Hamas in Qatar.

I'm sure you are missing the real thing Israel is attempting. They know that the current Gazans leadership represents the large bulk of Gazans. Israel is attempting to destroy the huge military apparatus the Gazans built in and around the civilian infrastructure to prevent them from launching more attacks on Israeli civilians like they been doing for generations. But it won't matter much to trash Hamas since most Gazans support Hamas' mission, the ethnic cleansing of Israel.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

They didn’t try targeted killings in Gaza. And bombing the crap out of Gaza doesn’t affect Hamas in Qatar.

I'm sure you are missing the real thing Israel is attempting. They know that the current Gazans leadership represents the large bulk of Gazans. Israel is attempting to destroy the huge military apparatus the Gazans built in and around the civilian infrastructure to prevent them from launching more attacks on Israeli civilians like they been doing for generations. But it won't matter much to trash Hamas since most Gazans support Hamas' mission, the ethnic cleansing of Israel.
Tom

I didn't realize you were such an expert on Gaza and Gazans because you've hid your expertise so well in your responses.

 

[TomC]

I didn't realize you were such an expert on Gaza and Gazans because you've hid your expertise so well in your responses.

You don't have to be an expert to see the obvious. But I can't help but notice that you didn't suggest I was wrong, much less give a better explanation.
Just a stupid ad hom and a heaping helping of self righteousness.
Tom

 

[WAB]

I didn't realize you were such an expert on Gaza and Gazans because you've hid your expertise so well in your responses.

You don't have to be an expert to see the obvious. But I can't help but notice that you didn't suggest I was wrong, much less give a better explanation.
Just a stupid ad hom and a heaping helping of self righteousness.
Tom

What else is new?

 

[laughing dog]

I didn't realize you were such an expert on Gaza and Gazans because you've hid your expertise so well in your responses.

You don't have to be an expert to see the obvious. But I can't help but notice that you didn't suggest I was wrong, much less give a better explanation.
Just a stupid ad hom and a heaping helping of self righteousness.
Tom

Irony is your metier.

Contrary to your previous post, Israel stated it wants to eliminate Hamas.

 

[TomC]

Irony is your metier.

Contrary to your previous post, Israel stated it wants to eliminate Hamas.

And the US stated that the reason we attacked Iran was to eliminate the threat of nukes.
Do you believe everything that comes out of politicians mouths?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Irony is your metier.

Contrary to your previous post, Israel stated it wants to eliminate Hamas.

And the US stated that the reason we attacked Iran was to eliminate the threat of nukes.
Do you believe everything that comes out of politicians mouths?
Tom

I don't believe anything that comes out of Trump's mouth.

Israel stated that they wanted to eliminate Hamas and get back the hostages. They haven't eliminated Hamas or its control over all of Gaza after more than 2 years of fighting and massive destruction. They have managed to hurt Hamas for now, and to kill lots of noncombatants along the way. Some consider that a major win, others a win with vast tragic outcomes as well.

 

[ZiprHead]

I didn't realize you were such an expert on Gaza and Gazans because you've hid your expertise so well in your responses.

You don't have to be an expert to see the obvious. But I can't help but notice that you didn't suggest I was wrong, much less give a better explanation.
Just a stupid ad hom and a heaping helping of self righteousness.
Tom

You think Gazans like to be used as human shields by Hamas?

 

[TomC]

I didn't realize you were such an expert on Gaza and Gazans because you've hid your expertise so well in your responses.

You don't have to be an expert to see the obvious. But I can't help but notice that you didn't suggest I was wrong, much less give a better explanation.
Just a stupid ad hom and a heaping helping of self righteousness.
Tom

You think Gazans like to be used as human shields by Hamas?

Apparently they do, Hamas is in the 20th year of a 4 year term.
I don't pretend to understand why Gazans keep doing this, but they do. The military buildup to the Oct '23 attack was years in the making. Gazans built military installations under a bunch of civilian infrastructure. They put missle launching platforms all over the place, including the roofs of hospitals.

Don't tell me that the bulk of Gazans didn't know about that.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I didn't realize you were such an expert on Gaza and Gazans because you've hid your expertise so well in your responses.

You don't have to be an expert to see the obvious. But I can't help but notice that you didn't suggest I was wrong, much less give a better explanation.
Just a stupid ad hom and a heaping helping of self righteousness.
Tom

You think Gazans like to be used as human shields by Hamas?

Apparently they do, Hamas is in the 20th year of a 4 year term.
I don't pretend to understand why Gazans keep doing this, but they do. The military buildup to the Oct '23 attack was years in the making. Gazans built military installations under a bunch of civilian infrastructure. They put missle launching platforms all over the place, including the roofs of hospitals.

Don't tell me that the bulk of Gazans didn't know about that.
Tom

What were these Gazans ( 50% 18 or under, 43% under 14) who are unarmed supposed to do?

 

[Derec]

What were these Gazans ( 50% 18 or under, 43% under 14) who are unarmed supposed to do?

Maybe revolt?
Instead of joining Hamas and allied groups like Islamic Jihad. Because that's what a significant percentage of military age males, including older minors, are doing.

 

[laughing dog]

What were these Gazans ( 50% 18 or under, 43% under 14) who are unarmed supposed to do?

Maybe revolt?

How?

 

[Arctish]

I didn't realize you were such an expert on Gaza and Gazans because you've hid your expertise so well in your responses.

You don't have to be an expert to see the obvious. But I can't help but notice that you didn't suggest I was wrong, much less give a better explanation.
Just a stupid ad hom and a heaping helping of self righteousness.
Tom

You think Gazans like to be used as human shields by Hamas?

Apparently they do, Hamas is in the 20th year of a 4 year term.
I don't pretend to understand why Gazans keep doing this, but they do. The military buildup to the Oct '23 attack was years in the making. Gazans built military installations under a bunch of civilian infrastructure. They put missle launching platforms all over the place, including the roofs of hospitals.

Don't tell me that the bulk of Gazans didn't know about that.
Tom

What were these Gazans ( 50% 18 or under, 43% under 14) who are unarmed supposed to do?

Also, nearly all of the adult women were stay-at-home moms (until the homes were destroyed).

How were they supposed to do what Mossad couldn't?

 

[TomC]

Why do so many westerners think that Gazans are too stupid and God addled to take responsibility for their collective decisions?
I don't.
Tom