Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Loren Pechtel]

And again, not one link was given that day.

If you want to be taken seriously, post links to your sources and stop making shit up.

Not one link was needed (although one was present) as I was showing that your link doesn't actually mean what you think it means.

Sources of information that support claims being made are always needed.

Links to those sources are always needed and should immediately be provided when other posters ask for them.

Back up your claims, Loren. Link to your sources.

Also, which link of mine "doesn't actually mean" what I think it means? Be specific.

Showing a problem with your link doesn't required adding a link.

And the repeated asking for links for what's already been linked doesn't warrant action.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

FFS, the initial ceasefire agreement had 3 stages. Both Israel and Hamas abided by the terms of stage 1. When it ended, Israel demanded the release of more hostages, Hamas rejected that demand and insisted the 2nd stage continue as planned. Then Israel started bombing. Like it or not, Israel violated the ceasefire first.

No. Hamas failed to shift to phase 2.

I'm not denying the baby is malnourished. I'm saying it has not been established that there's anything Israel could have done to change that. There isn't always an answer.

https://www.nestlenutritionstore.com/vivonexr-plus.html

Please note items #3 and #4 in the ingredients list. What of you are anaphylactic to either of these? #4 comes through unchanged from what's in nature.

We are not talking about a single infant. Of course you can deny that blockading food and medical supplies to a region for 3 months did not cause any malnutrition. You just cannot expect anyone to take you seriously.

Whenever we see these starving kids everyone else around looks fine. It's medical. And you aren't even addressing the fact that there simply aren't answers for some. By Hamas' own data there have only been 60 malnutrition deaths.

And the food is there:

2) Is there truly none in Gaza, or is it sitting in Hamas storage somewhere so she will starve for the cameras?

I have no idea what that word salad means.

Because you don't want to. Hamas was stealing much of the aid that came in. There very well might be formula somewhere but Hamas is not letting her have it.

You saying it is so doesn't make it so.

There is no doubt that Hamas is hoarding food. Neither of us is in a position to address exactly what food they have.

And Hamas really hates being bypassed:

WATCH: Masked gunmen shoot at Gazans seeking humanitarian aid

According to the IDF, the video, captured earlier in the day, shows men throwing rocks and firing weapons at fellow Palestinians trying to retrieve looted aid packages.

www.jpost.com

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Whatever Hamas would do (probably establish an Islamic theocratic dictatorship like their masters in Tehran have) if they were successful in destroying Israel does not change the fact that they are willing to sacrifice both their people's lives and their livelihoods to their desire to kill Jews. They are showing gross indifference to the lives of what is ostensibly their people.

True. But that does not mean they are against prosperity for their people. It simply means they are willing to trade prosperity now for other goals. You and I may think it is foolish, but that does not mean they are against prosperity for their people.

The people doing the trading are gaining both money (from Iran) and power (over the people.) It's win-win for them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You aren't addressing the point at all, merely regurgitating Hamas propaganda. If there really were that many in distress why are there no pictures? And why kids? Do the parents not care enough about their children?

You're denying there is malnutrition??? Where are people living in refugee camps supposed to get food from?

Pictures? Cameras and cell phones require power to charge. There is no power. No active cell phone towers even if they could charge their phones.

You ask questions that are so easy to answer but think you have a point.

We see lots of pictures. Just not of the supposed starvation.

Every case we've seen so far the others around don't look like the kid being paraded in front of the camera.

If there really was the lack of food that is being pretended we would be seeing mass deaths.

 

[laughing dog]

By Hamas' own data there have only been 60 malnutrition deaths.

. “Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

After all, to paraphrase the famous moral philosopher Jodi Ernst, “we all die”.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

SH, the problem is that there have been claims of "famine" ever since the war started. And people in recent photos do not look emaciated. Even in photos from that NY Times article that makes claims of "famine".

Also, from the article:

Mr. el-Halabi said his daughter, who recently gave birth, was unable to breastfeed because she has not been eating enough. No baby formula is available, he said.

Why are people still have children in a war? Especially if you believe their claims of "famine", why would you bring additional mouths to feed into the world if you can't adequately feed yourself?

Think they have adequate birth control?

But note that famine does provide fair birth control--if a woman's body fat drops too low the system shuts down and conception is unlikely. Yet the birth rate remains high.

Reminds me of this:
"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down".

It reminding you of that does not make it so. Nor I'm not saying it's reliable birth control. I am saying that someone who is starving is unlikely to conceive.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They've also consistently denied the existence of the tunnels and that they build their military based under hospitals and schools. They're not even honest about their mission statement. Ie, being a Iranian tool whose sole existence is about destabalising Israel. Not Palestinian prosperity.

The question we should rather be asking, when was Hamas honest about anything?

That doesn't address anything I said that you replied to. Are you okay?

The point is you're taking Hamas propaganda as truth.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Think they have adequate birth control?

"Adequate" from the point of view of developed countries, where properly used birth control has very low chance of failing? Of course not.

But even crude methods, such as pulling out or refraining from penetrative sex when the woman is likely to be ovulating would still greatly reduce pregnancy rates. That there are reportedly still almost as many pregnant women and women giving birth every day shows that most couples are still trying to get pregnant.

That wasn't even what I was talking about. Rather, that when a woman's body fat drops too low the system generally shuts down. Elite athletes often don't menstruate.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So, IDF targeted the new Hamas chief in Gaza, Mohammed Sinwar, in a tunnel underneath Khan Yunis.
The Rafah Brigade commander and the notorious Hamas spokesman are also thought to have been in the tunnel with Sinwar the Younger.

Hamas spokesman, Rafah Brigade commander also killed with Sinwar, IDF believes

Hopefully, this will be confirmed as true.

This clip shows the strike on the tunnel. You can see a number of bunker busters detonating.

Amazing how you can get a bunch of secondaries from hitting a tunnel that "doesn't exist".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But I do think there's hope. Many of these "perpetual" ethnic conflicts get resolved once they run out of steam. Ie, the people start telling themselves different stories. Ireland became a booming IT nation. Which disctracted the Northern Irish fanatics enough to kill the conflict. Something like that can fix Gaza. But that does require stability and responsible government. So Hamas has to go. Isreal is making that happen.

No. Follow the money. They end when they run out of sponsorship.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So it's okay the Gazans are slaughtered?

What does that have to do with ridiculing a group of people for being useful idiots for a terrorist organization that'd just as soon kill them as look at them?

As to your question: of course not! But Gaza started this war, and they have it in their power to end it.

Hamas (which is the de facto government of Gaza) and allied terror groups (Islamic Jihad, Popular Resistance Committees and such) should have capitulated unconditionally a year ago. Then much suffering would have been spared the Gazan people.

Gaza is being rendered into Dresden. How many more Gazans do you think need to die before Gazans overlook all the death and side with Israel... with Hamas guns to their heads of course.

The Gazans have no realistic choice the matter. They are victims. What you miss is that Iran is the oppressor.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So it's okay the Gazans are slaughtered?

What does that have to do with ridiculing a group of people for being useful idiots for a terrorist organization that'd just as soon kill them as look at them?

As to your question: of course not! But Gaza started this war, and they have it in their power to end it.
Hamas (which is the de facto government of Gaza) and allied terror groups (Islamic Jihad, Popular Resistance Committees and such) should have capitulated unconditionally a year ago. Then much suffering would have been spared the Gazan people.

Or at any point shift tactic and chose to live in peace with the Israelis. Israel is an inclusive modern western country. All the Muslims need to do is accept that they're not the master race anymore. They'll need to learn to live with being the equals of Jews. That is the entire problem in this conflict.

The entire problem with the conflict is that the madmen are in charge of both sides and that both armed factions think their violence is justified.

Gazan officials say 53k have died. Using the Loren rule, we'll slash that to 5,300 innocent civilians, and there is no end in sight.

The problem is you persist in looking for answers under the streetlight.

Yes, what's happening in Gaza is horrible. It's by Hamas' choice, though. They started it, they're continuing it. Blame them (and blame Iran.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You have a problem with facts. There are Israelis , including those in the current gov’t, who advocate for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from the region. Recognizing reality is a sign of rationality and sanity, not antisemitism.

You’ve made it abundantly clear you have mo problem flinging baseless accusations of antisemitism. Those slanders supplement your bigoted anti-Arab tirades to give a more rounded picture of your position.

Except you're not demonstrating anything wrong with his facts.

Yes, there are some in the Israeli government who have called for ethnic cleansing. That doesn't mean we see any ethnic cleansing going on. Instead we see a force in Gaza that intentionally maximizes civilian casualties to parade before the world's press. How can you not see the utter evil?

 

[TomC]

By Hamas' own data there have only been 60 malnutrition deaths.

. “Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

After all, to paraphrase the famous moral philosopher Jodi Ernst, “we all die”.

Hamas is holding over two million people hostage in a tiny warzone, and using them as human shields. They can only find sixty deaths that they can attribute to malnutrition.
I'm not minimizing the suffering. I'm pointing out the responsibility for the suffering.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

By Hamas' own data there have only been 60 malnutrition deaths.

. “Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

After all, to paraphrase the famous moral philosopher Jodi Ernst, “we all die”.

Hamas is holding over two million people hostage in a tiny warzone, and using them as human shields. They can only find sixty deaths that they can attribute to malnutrition.
I'm not minimizing the suffering. I'm pointing out the responsibility for the suffering.
Tom

You feel you ate, but you are only fooling yourself with that one.

 

[TomC]

By Hamas' own data there have only been 60 malnutrition deaths.

. “Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

After all, to paraphrase the famous moral philosopher Jodi Ernst, “we all die”.

Hamas is holding over two million people hostage in a tiny warzone, and using them as human shields. They can only find sixty deaths that they can attribute to malnutrition.
I'm not minimizing the suffering. I'm pointing out the responsibility for the suffering.
Tom

You feel you ate, but you aren’t when you point to only one party.

What the hell?
Tom
ETA "You feel you ate, but you aren't" is what I responded to

 

[laughing dog]

You have a problem with facts. There are Israelis , including those in the current gov’t, who advocate for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from the region. Recognizing reality is a sign of rationality and sanity, not antisemitism.

You’ve made it abundantly clear you have mo problem flinging baseless accusations of antisemitism. Those slanders supplement your bigoted anti-Arab tirades to give a more rounded picture of your position.

Except you're not demonstrating anything wrong with his facts….

You don’t think thete is anything wrong with expanding settlements in the West Bank, making Gaza more uninhabitable every day and killing civilians by the score is not evidence of ethnic cleansing?

 

[laughing dog]

By Hamas' own data there have only been 60 malnutrition deaths.

. “Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

After all, to paraphrase the famous moral philosopher Jodi Ernst, “we all die”.

Hamas is holding over two million people hostage in a tiny warzone, and using them as human shields. They can only find sixty deaths that they can attribute to malnutrition.
I'm not minimizing the suffering. I'm pointing out the responsibility for the suffering.
Tom

You feel you ate, but you aren’t when you point to only one party.

What the hell?
Tom
ETA "You feel you ate, but you aren't" is what I responded to

oops, substitute “are” ffor “ ate”, (sorry for that tupi) but if you think about it, either works.

 

[TomC]

By Hamas' own data there have only been 60 malnutrition deaths.

. “Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

After all, to paraphrase the famous moral philosopher Jodi Ernst, “we all die”.

Hamas is holding over two million people hostage in a tiny warzone, and using them as human shields. They can only find sixty deaths that they can attribute to malnutrition.
I'm not minimizing the suffering. I'm pointing out the responsibility for the suffering.
Tom

You feel you ate, but you aren’t when you point to only one party.

What the hell?
Tom
ETA "You feel you ate, but you aren't" is what I responded to

oops, substitute “are” ffor “ ate”, (sorry for that tupi) but if you think about it, either works.

No it doesn't and never did.
Adding "when you point to only one party" changes the meaning a great deal, but that wasn't in the post I responded to.

Here's the thing. I'm not only pointing to one party. I'm pointing to the party which is overwhelmingly responsible for the current debacle amongst a batch of posters who mostly handwave the reason for the suffering in Gaza. It's Hamas and their supporters.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

By Hamas' own data there have only been 60 malnutrition deaths.

. “Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

“Only” 60 malnutrition deaths.

After all, to paraphrase the famous moral philosopher Jodi Ernst, “we all die”.

Hamas is holding over two million people hostage in a tiny warzone, and using them as human shields. They can only find sixty deaths that they can attribute to malnutrition.
I'm not minimizing the suffering. I'm pointing out the responsibility for the suffering.
Tom

You feel you ate, but you aren’t when you point to only one party.

What the hell?
Tom
ETA "You feel you ate, but you aren't" is what I responded to

oops, substitute “are” ffor “ ate”, (sorry for that tupi) but if you think about it, either works.

No it doesn't and never did.
Adding "when you point to only one party" changes the meaning a great deal, but that wasn't in the post I responded to.

Here's the thing. I'm not only pointing to one party. I'm pointing to the party which is overwhelmingly responsible for the current debacle amongst a batch of posters who mostly handwave the reason for the suffering in Gaza. It's Hamas and their supporters.
Tom

“Overwhelming”. fortifies my point.

In English, when one writes “ the responsibility “ , literate readers take that to mean a dingle source.