George Floyd murderer's trial

[Elixir]

Dershowitz has expressed the opinion that the prosecution's interpretation of the relevant provisions is wrong.

Dershowitz... long since, a right wing extremist shill.

a colossal fuck-up by the prosecution if it turns out to be the case.

... and the defense, and the judge and the jury.
But - ALAN DERSHOWITZ!

 

[laughing dog]

I believe that the interpretation of the third degree murder provision is to be considered shortly by the Minnesota Supreme Court.

The Minnesota Supreme Court refused an appeal by Mr. Chauvin's lawyers om the 3rd degree charge (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minnesota-supreme-court-won-t-intervene-third-degree-murder-charge-n1260531).

Alan Dershowitz is becoming a ludicrous as Rudy Guiliani as a legal expert.

 

[atrib]

I became convinced that Chauvin wanted to kill or severely harm Floyd the first time I saw the bystander video on YouTube. No reasonable policeman who takes the lives of people in their custody seriously would have acted the way Chauvin did.

Reasonableness is one thing and intent is another.

Chauvin continued his assault for over 3 minutes after he was made aware that Floyd had stopped breathing and had become non-responsive. Death is a predictable outcome of continuing to asphyxiate someone who has stopped breathing and lost consciousness. Chauvin was a professional with many hours of training in first aid and use of force, not that you need extensive EMT training to recognize this fact. Therefore, Chauvin must have been aware of the potential consequences of his actions, but he continued and even increased the level of force he was using to "restrain" the unresponsive body of Mr. Floyd. His intent to seriously harm or kill Floyd can easily and reasonably be inferred from his actions.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I really thought that a charge of murder required something of intent. But legally it doesn't, here.

The charge details have been posted several times in this thread. I suggest you read them because you are wrong.

CNN's website states the following:
"The second-degree unintentional murder charge alleged Chauvin caused Floyd's death "without intent" while committing or attempting to commit felony third-degree assault. In turn, third-degree assault is defined as the intentional infliction of substantial bodily harm.

The third-degree murder charge alleged Chauvin caused Floyd's death by "perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life."

Chauvin clearly had a depraved mind without regard for human life.

Also, Chauvin did not violently hurt Floyd accidentally.

His physical assault of Floyd was intentional.

If he tripped and fell on Floyd followed by a car falling on Chauvin that forced him to be there for almost 10 minutes, then the assault would be unintentional.

 

[Patooka]

Bail revoked. He's going to the pokey.

Prison abolition activists make an exception and still rejoice...

Derec, I know Justin King is the scariest thing in your mind (a white man willingly going to jail for smuggling brown refugees into America), but he makes some good points to your bad faith argument:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6gzAj1qm_s[/youtube]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What wasn't fair?

Holding the trial in the city held hostage by the threats of a repeat of Summer 2020 should Chauvin get acquitted.

In South Africa we don't have jury trials.

I get that jury trails can have certain benefits but in this instance I think it would have been better if a judge had made the determination - Judges have to write judgments - In the judgment the judge would have to justify why he thought that each element of each charge was present. This can to some degree provide a check against any tendency to decide a case on the basis of extra-legal considerations and can provide clarity to people who are sceptical of the result.

Hey, I like that idea, but how about applying a lesser version of it to the jury?

Prosecution and defense each make up a list of points for their position--claims only, no argument. Jury members must indicate what they think of each item on the list.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

During the trial, I actually became convinced he did want to kill Floyd. What made me change my mind on that was when the small crowd was pleading with him to get off and Chauvin actually lifted his foot off the ground to add even more weight and pressure to Floyd's neck. He knew what he was doing.

View attachment 33074

I don't believe there was any intent to kill. Rather, I think there was an intent to inflict pain. He wanted Floyd to suffer.

 

[untermensche]

Chauvin is a sadistic murderer.

And the cops that watched him do it are accessories.

You only change the system if you charge and convict them too.

 

[abaddon]

And the cops that watched him do it are accessories.

They are. They aided and abetted a murder. So I wonder if we'll see their trials?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Different Variants of Second Degree Murder

All...

Minnesota really isn't that different.

 

[laughing dog]

And the cops that watched him do it are accessories.

They are. They aided and abetted a murder. So I wonder if we'll see their trials?

I think now they’ll take a plea deal.

 

[Toni]

During the trial, I actually became convinced he did want to kill Floyd. What made me change my mind on that was when the small crowd was pleading with him to get off and Chauvin actually lifted his foot off the ground to add even more weight and pressure to Floyd's neck. He knew what he was doing.

View attachment 33074

I don't believe there was any intent to kill. Rather, I think there was an intent to inflict pain. He wanted Floyd to suffer.

I think he wanted to inflict pain, enjoyed Floyd's suffering and was indifferent to the chance of Floyd's death.

 

[Rhea]

I think he wanted to inflict pain, enjoyed Floyd's suffering and was indifferent to the chance of Floyd's death.

This

 

[Worldtraveller]

I watched FoxNews for about 5 minutes last night and it seemed that Tucker didn't quite knoew what to say. He's trying to appear hard line by frowning all the time but then he bursts out with a weirdly maniacal cackle after interviewing a NY prosecutor calling for police reform. Strange dude. I get the impression he's afraid to say anything that will conflict with Trump, and afaik Trump has been silent.

He was, at one time, capable of rational and well-spoken argumentation. I enjoyed watching him on Crossfire about 20 years back, even though I agreed with maybe 2% of his analysis. Now he's pure toxic waste, pandering to the grumpy/enraged Fox News audience, putting forth outrageous rumors and conspiracy theories, and his scowling face makes him a caricature of Right Wing demogogues.

He was pretty shit on Crossfire too. That's why Jon Stewart lambasted him so hard.

 

[abaddon]

I think he wanted to inflict pain, enjoyed Floyd's suffering and was indifferent to the chance of Floyd's death.

This

I agree too. And I think there was defiance of the bystanders on top of that. The defense twisted it into "they distracted him". And, no... their "emotionality" made him feel goaded so he wanted to show them who's boss.

 

[blastula]

Trump later said:

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

Marching to protest something is an extremely common political tactic. Asking people to do it 'peacefully' is a good sign you want them to do it peacefully.

Oof, here's your shoes.

 

[Deborah]

I believe that the interpretation of the third degree murder provision is to be considered shortly by the Minnesota Supreme Court.

The Minnesota Supreme Court refused an appeal by Mr. Chauvin's lawyers om the 3rd degree charge (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minnesota-supreme-court-won-t-intervene-third-degree-murder-charge-n1260531).

Alan Dershowitz is becoming a ludicrous as Rudy Guiliani as a legal expert.

The appeal that is pending in the Minnesota Supreme Court regarding the interpretation of the third degree murder provision is in the Mohamed Noor case.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/noor-legal-team-appeals-third-degree-murder-charge-to-minnesota-supreme-court/89-567efb3b-13e9-46ae-a63f-ad037fd777d7
I believe that the hearing will be in June.

The argument I heard in relation to the second degree murder provision that the felony must relate to an act other than the act which caused death is that it would be absurd if in a case of an unintentional killing by means of a firearm you could rely on the felony of firing a firearm.

It is more easy for me to see the rationale for the second degree murder provision if it, for example, related to a case where someone was shot by a burglar in the course of when a burglary was committed.

 

[laughing dog]

I believe that the interpretation of the third degree murder provision is to be considered shortly by the Minnesota Supreme Court.

The Minnesota Supreme Court refused an appeal by Mr. Chauvin's lawyers om the 3rd degree charge (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minnesota-supreme-court-won-t-intervene-third-degree-murder-charge-n1260531).

Alan Dershowitz is becoming a ludicrous as Rudy Guiliani as a legal expert.

The appeal that is pending in the Minnesota Supreme Court regarding the interpretation of the third degree murder provision is in the Mohamed Noor case.
https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/noor-legal-team-appeals-third-degree-murder-charge-to-minnesota-supreme-court/89-567efb3b-13e9-46ae-a63f-ad037fd777d7
I believe that the hearing will be in June.

That appeal is over a completely different case with a completely different set of facts that are in no way similar to the facts in the Floyd case. The fact the Minnesota Supreme Court denied an appeal about the 3rd degree manslaughter charge in the Chauvin case strongly suggests that a successful judgment in the Noor appeal will have no effect on the Chauvin conviction.

 

[Deborah]

Chauvin continued his assault for over 3 minutes after he was made aware that Floyd had stopped breathing and had become non-responsive. Death is a predictable outcome of continuing to asphyxiate someone who has stopped breathing and lost consciousness. Chauvin was a professional with many hours of training in first aid and use of force, not that you need extensive EMT training to recognize this fact. Therefore, Chauvin must have been aware of the potential consequences of his actions, but he continued and even increased the level of force he was using to "restrain" the unresponsive body of Mr. Floyd. His intent to seriously harm or kill Floyd can easily and reasonably be inferred from his actions.

From the dialogue between the officers it appears that it was believed that Floyd was breathing at least to timestamp 20:25:13 of Kueng's BWC footage and that's how it also appears to me looking at the footage.
https://lawofselfdefense.com/chauvin-trial-the-big-lie-of-the-3-minute-plus-restraint-while-pulseless/. I didn't see any footage of Chauvin increasing the amount of force after 20:25:13. The paramedic appears in Lane's BWC footage at 25:27:40. I didn't see any footage of any of the officers saying that they had determined that Floyd was not breathing.

 

[Toni]

Chauvin continued his assault for over 3 minutes after he was made aware that Floyd had stopped breathing and had become non-responsive. Death is a predictable outcome of continuing to asphyxiate someone who has stopped breathing and lost consciousness. Chauvin was a professional with many hours of training in first aid and use of force, not that you need extensive EMT training to recognize this fact. Therefore, Chauvin must have been aware of the potential consequences of his actions, but he continued and even increased the level of force he was using to "restrain" the unresponsive body of Mr. Floyd. His intent to seriously harm or kill Floyd can easily and reasonably be inferred from his actions.

From the dialogue between the officers it appears that it was believed that Floyd was breathing at least to timestamp 20:25:13 of Kueng's BWC footage and that's how it also appears to me looking at the footage.
https://lawofselfdefense.com/chauvin-trial-the-big-lie-of-the-3-minute-plus-restraint-while-pulseless/. I didn't see any footage of Chauvin increasing the amount of force after 20:25:13. The paramedic appears in Lane's BWC footage at 25:27:40. I didn't see any footage of any of the officers saying that they had determined that Floyd was not breathing.

The officers did not notice whether or not Floyd was 'resisting' or breathing because they did not check on his welfare in any way at all.

I'm not certain why you want to re-litigate a case that has been decided already.