God and time and space

[Juma]

Not all goals, once reached, are pleasant.

Attainment of knowledge can be slightly unpleasant at times.

Of course. I wouldn't attempt to claim otherwise.

But it's not without profit to realize a goal isn't always all it's cracked up to be. IOW, you are better off for knowing, even if it's disappointing or painful. I would say somebody in that position was in error regarding their vision of themselves. Better to be corrected than deluded.

Now you fell into this therapy/life coach role. Idont you have a point at all. You are just floating along the flow.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Of course. I wouldn't attempt to claim otherwise.

But it's not without profit to realize a goal isn't always all it's cracked up to be. IOW, you are better off for knowing, even if it's disappointing or painful. I would say somebody in that position was in error regarding their vision of themselves. Better to be corrected than deluded.

Now you fell into this therapy/life coach role. Idont you have a point at all. You are just floating along the flow.

Oh, there's a point all right but your petulance put an end to the dialog. There's more to it than the highest vision.

 

[Juma]

Now you fell into this therapy/life coach role. Idont you have a point at all. You are just floating along the flow.

Oh, there's a point all right but your petulance put an end to the dialog. There's more to it than the highest vision.

My petulance? You tried to enact some dialogue as if this is some fucking play of yours. I do not buy that. state your point and then argue for it.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Oh, there's a point all right but your petulance put an end to the dialog. There's more to it than the highest vision.

My petulance? You tried to enact some dialogue as if this is some fucking play of yours. I do not buy that. state your point and then argue for it.

Fine. Don't buy it. But I'm not going to argue in essay and then read another vague blanket negation which I then have to toil away at, pulling teeth to get any specifics out of you. I'm not doing that again. We'll do it a step at a time or not at all.

 

[Kharakov]

Back towards the point. Strawberries have a taste, sky has a color, there are various qualia that we experience depending on our attributes. If we become discerning, we can tell "good" experiences from "bad" experiences.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Back towards the point. Strawberries have a taste, sky has a color, there are various qualia that we experience depending on our attributes. If we become discerning, we can tell "good" experiences from "bad" experiences.

And we're drawn to the good experiences. The good experiences have qualities that nourish us, sustain us, so we seek them out.

 

[Juma]

Back towards the point. Strawberries have a taste, sky has a color, there are various qualia that we experience depending on our attributes. If we become discerning, we can tell "good" experiences from "bad" experiences.

And we're drawn to the good experiences. The good experiences have qualities that nourish us, sustain us, so we seek them out.

Yes. And by this circular reasoning we come no-where.
I do not require an essay from you. Just 5-10 sentences that states what your actual point is.

 

[Speakpigeon]

Horatio seems to be making sense to me. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Beauty is the feeling that something is attractive.
Eternal beauty is a reference to attractiveness that does not change with time, hence 'eternal'.

So in a social context, a man might refer to his wife as possessing 'eternal beauty'. This is because she looks beautiful to him irrespective of the passage of time. It's a reference to concepts of beauty and attractiveness that are partaking of an ideal of beauty that is not contingent on time and circumstance.

It's the same point I was making about mathematical concepts. Beauty is no more a fleeting emotion than E-MCsquared is. Both are abstractions, or as Horation puts it, universals. The content of a single person's head does not define or encompass the concept, because the concept is shared.

I'm really not following why this would be controvertial.

Philosophers have been in disagreement over the notion of Universal for something like ten centuries, possibly more. Some are still at it. It’s not just a controversy in philosophy, it’s very obviously a fundamental one. Don't you know that?
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

I think HP is trying to sell a recipee for how to live a happy life.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

Liike thiis Google saample for "highest vision" ... (72,000 hiits)

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.

 

[Horatio Parker]

And we're drawn to the good experiences. The good experiences have qualities that nourish us, sustain us, so we seek them out.

Yes. And by this circular reasoning we come no-where.
I do not require an essay from you. Just 5-10 sentences that states what your actual point is.

Seek the good, avoid the bad. What's circular about that?

 

[Horatio Parker]

Horatio seems to be making sense to me. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Beauty is the feeling that something is attractive.
Eternal beauty is a reference to attractiveness that does not change with time, hence 'eternal'.

So in a social context, a man might refer to his wife as possessing 'eternal beauty'. This is because she looks beautiful to him irrespective of the passage of time. It's a reference to concepts of beauty and attractiveness that are partaking of an ideal of beauty that is not contingent on time and circumstance.

It's the same point I was making about mathematical concepts. Beauty is no more a fleeting emotion than E-MCsquared is. Both are abstractions, or as Horation puts it, universals. The content of a single person's head does not define or encompass the concept, because the concept is shared.

I'm really not following why this would be controvertial.

Philosophers have been in disagreement over the notion of Universal for something like ten centuries, possibly more. Some are still at it. It’s not just a controversy in philosophy, it’s very obviously a fundamental one. Don't you know that?
EB

Sure he does. And so do I. The point is not that empirical proof of universals exists, but that people use them, constantly, in their lives. I can refer to "Germany" without referring to an individual, a location, a group, any instituion or law, in fact nothing specific at all and be understood. No one will say, "you can't say 'Germany' because there's no such thing as a universal".

 

[Juma]

Yes. And by this circular reasoning we come no-where.
I do not require an essay from you. Just 5-10 sentences that states what your actual point is.

Seek the good, avoid the bad. What's circular about that?

What the heck are you talking about? You answered a post by a silly circular remark and then post something about seeking good? What the fuck is your point! Make it now or never!

 

[Juma]

Philosophers have been in disagreement over the notion of Universal for something like ten centuries, possibly more. Some are still at it. It’s not just a controversy in philosophy, it’s very obviously a fundamental one. Don't you know that?
EB

Sure he does. And so do I. The point is not that empirical proof of universals exists, but that people use them, constantly, in their lives. I can refer to "Germany" without referring to an individual, a location, a group, any instituion or law, in fact nothing specific at all and be understood. No one will say, "you can't say 'Germany' because there's no such thing as a universal".

Germany is a social construct. Are universals nothing but social constructs?

 

[Horatio Parker]

Seek the good, avoid the bad. What's circular about that?

What the heck are you talking about? You answered a post by a silly circular remark and then post something about seeking good? What the fuck is your point! Make it now or never!

If there's circular reasoning, why continue? Because if so, the conclusion would have to be mistaken. Let's determine that validity of a premise before moving on.

Wherein lies the circularity? WTF are you talking about?

- - - Updated - - -

Sure he does. And so do I. The point is not that empirical proof of universals exists, but that people use them, constantly, in their lives. I can refer to "Germany" without referring to an individual, a location, a group, any instituion or law, in fact nothing specific at all and be understood. No one will say, "you can't say 'Germany' because there's no such thing as a universal".

Germany is a social construct. Are universals nothing but social constructs?

Could be, who knows. The point is that we use them daily in our lives. If you can't grasp Germany as an abstraction there many others. Mankind. Love. Honor. And so on.

 

[Kharakov]

At least the dressing is evenly distributed.

 

[Juma]

Wherein lies the circularity? WTF are you talking about?

Things are good because... they are good...

 

[Horatio Parker]

Wherein lies the circularity? WTF are you talking about?

Things are good because... they are good...

That's your construction, not mine. What I said was there are good things that we desire, and we act to obtain the good. Why they are good, or why there is any good at all, which is how your statement pertains, is a much bigger problem. It's similar to asking why is there beauty?

Why is there beauty or the good I don't know, but both present, among their other qualities, a challenge and a mystery that we feel impelled to explore. As Aristotle said, the purpose of all action is contemplation. So, from a human standpoint or ancient philosophy (as opposed to empirical academic philosophy), I would say that the purpose of the good is for us to explore and understand it.

 

[Juma]

Things are good because... they are good...

That's your construction, not mine. What I said was there are good things that we desire, and we act to obtain the good. Why they are good, or why there is any good at all, which is how your statement pertains, is a much bigger problem. It's similar to asking why is there beauty?

Why is there beauty or the good I don't know, but both present, among their other qualities, a challenge and a mystery that we feel impelled to explore. As Aristotle said, the purpose of all action is contemplation. So, from a human standpoint or ancient philosophy (as opposed to empirical academic philosophy), I would say that the purpose of the good is for us to explore and understand it.

Nothing interesting here. Bye.

 

[Underseer]

Philosophers have been in disagreement over the notion of Universal for something like ten centuries, possibly more. Some are still at it. It’s not just a controversy in philosophy, it’s very obviously a fundamental one. Don't you know that?
EB

Sure he does. And so do I. The point is not that empirical proof of universals exists, but that people use them, constantly, in their lives. I can refer to "Germany" without referring to an individual, a location, a group, any instituion or law, in fact nothing specific at all and be understood. No one will say, "you can't say 'Germany' because there's no such thing as a universal".

Wait, so one has to believe in 100% truth or else they can't say the word "Germany"?