GOP Chaos

[Jimmy Higgins]

What part of opening a sham impeachment inquiry to calm the tantrumming toddlers has "better choice" strapped to it?

I understand your perspective. However, wasn't it the sentiment of 'Why would anyone choose Trump when we have Hillary, who might not be endearing but is clearly the better option?' that initially led to the rise of the extreme right within the Republican Party?

That didn't lead to any rise. That rise happened on its own and is part of a slowly moving train wreck that started with the Southern Strategy.

The issue with Clinton/Trump was that polling was being misunderstood (partially for bias and this idea that evangelicals actually had some foundation in religion) and Hillary Clinton took one chance in her entire political career by venturing to Arizona and Georgia to blow Trump out... instead of defending the wall which we had no idea was weaker than advertised. That was the error, the idea that

How would revisiting such an approach be beneficial now?

We aren't. Gaetz had McCarthy fired. The Dems saw zero benefit in saving McCarthy from his own party.

Clearly, removing McCarthy was the prudent decision right now. But let's await the subsequent developments to see if it was later.

McCarthy did almost nothing on a bipartisan basis and when Jeffries sought an understanding with this looking like it'd happen, McCarthy apparently said no. I think the Dems should support a moderate Republican, but they can't do it alone.

 

[Gospel]

That didn't lead to any rise. That rise happened on its own and is part of a slowly moving train wreck that started with the Southern Strategy.

You seem to have misunderstood. I wasn't implying that it was the sole reason for the rise. While the rise was evident, it doesn't excuse the need for proactive measures to curb its progression.

We aren't. Gaetz had McCarthy fired. The Dems saw zero benefit in saving McCarthy from his own party.

The Democrats seeing no benefit is precisely why individuals like myself face severe risks. There's an alarming trust among some Democrats that the Republican party will self-correct. It's vital to recognize when the dynamics have shifted and adjust one's perspective accordingly. We shouldn't wait until they've dominated the SCOTUS, Executive Branch, and tainted the House before we make moves against the extreme right. Every move counts, and to think that whomever they replace McCarthy with will be better is ridiculous.

McCarthy did almost nothing on a bipartisan basis and when Jeffries sought an understanding with this looking like it'd happen, McCarthy apparently said no. I think the Dems should support a moderate Republican, but they can't do it alone.

They had McCarthy by the balls and blew it (pun intended). Now, all we can do is wait and hope for the conservative party to improve this time around.

 

[Elixir]

They either all go with a fascist, or some of them work with the Democrats. I view the latter as unlikely (but not impossible).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That didn't lead to any rise. That rise happened on its own and is part of a slowly moving train wreck that started with the Southern Strategy.

You seem to have misunderstood. I wasn't implying that it was the sole reason for the rise. While the rise was evident, it doesn't excuse the need for proactive measures to curb its progression.

What, the part about electing that black guy or nominating a woman? The Tea Party movement was some stupid Ron Paul fan club until Fox News and the like hijacked it around 2008 and then fostered this anti-Obama movement starting in February 2009, so they could hold protests that summer. Or are you talking about passing ACA which cost the Democrats dearly... for a program that is near impossible to repeal now.

This right-wing to far right-wing to hyperbole right-wing movement has been marching on with the compassionate conservatism/neocon let's kill Hussein and call any liberal against it a traitor to the US. The big steps were Nixon's impeachment, Reagan economics and anti-government regulation, Gingrich's contract killer against Democrat leaders, the Neocon rebirth, which led to the 2012 primaries which was the pre-Trump anyone but Romney Primary. Then Trump... and then McCarthy who couldn't get elected Speaker by his own party because they are out of their minds.

The Democrats aren't exactly pushing the GOP on, as the Democrats have been shifting towards the center since Clinton!

We aren't. Gaetz had McCarthy fired. The Dems saw zero benefit in saving McCarthy from his own party.

The Democrats seeing no benefit is precisely why individuals like myself face severe risks. There's an alarming trust among some Democrats that the Republican party will self-correct.

I'm not seeing anyone suggest that.

It's vital to recognize when the dynamics have shifted and adjust one's perspective accordingly. We shouldn't wait until they've dominated the SCOTUS, Executive Branch, and tainted the House before we make moves against the extreme right.

We were already there under Trump. They won already. This is kind of like climate change. We are kind of trying to lessen the future increase of sucking. SCOTUS is done for a while. Voting Rights Bill, Roe v Wade, Campaign Finance... that is in the past.

Every move counts, and to think that whomever they replace McCarthy with will be better is ridiculous.

It would be doubtful that it could be that much worse. McCarthy is a radical... just one that can raise money well.

McCarthy did almost nothing on a bipartisan basis and when Jeffries sought an understanding with this looking like it'd happen, McCarthy apparently said no. I think the Dems should support a moderate Republican, but they can't do it alone.

They had McCarthy by the balls and blew it (pun intended).

Matt Gaetz had McCarthy by the balls and he figured he probably can make more money in the free market. He doesn't give a fuck about the United States.

McCarthy backed out in his deal with Biden, opened a BS inquiry to impeach Biden... fuck McCarthy. Backing him made no sense. What, so he could continue not holding to his agreements and continue a fake impeachment?

I have already selected the Republican to be named speaker with the help of the Dems.

 

[Gospel]

My point is that the political spectrum is shifting. What was once considered right-wing (Gingrich) is now potentially viewed as moderate or even center-left by some standards. As a result, progressives should be cautious in dismissing certain figures who, although appearing too conservative now (McCarthy), might be the moderating force in the future as the spectrum continues to evolve. By rejecting such figures, there's a risk of inadvertently empowering even more extreme voices. It's evident when noting that several of Trump's staunchest supporters from the extreme right currently have reservations about McCarthy.

 

[Elixir]

We gotta start calling it like it is.
McCarthy is not right wing, he is a fucking opportunistic liar. So is Jordan. And their boss.
Dems should nominate an honest Republican if they can find one, and vote for that person en masse. Send the message - you can’t install another Trumpsucking liar, but the solution is obvious. Purple district Republicans should give it some thought if they’re rational, and it would be obvious to everyone that failure to avail themselves of this easy
solution, will have negative consequences.

 

[bilby]

McCarthy is not right wing, he is a fucking opportunistic liar.

These are very much not mutually exclusive states.

 

[ZiprHead]

We gotta start calling it like it is.
McCarthy is not right wing, he is a fucking opportunistic liar. So is Jordan. And their boss.
Dems should nominate an honest Republican if they can find one, and vote for that person en masse. Send the message - you can’t install another Trumpsucking liar, but the solution is obvious. Purple district Republicans should give it some thought if they’re rational, and it would be obvious to everyone that failure to avail themselves of this easy
solution, will have negative consequences.

John Kasich was mentioned this morning.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

My point is that the political spectrum is shifting. What was once considered right-wing (Gingrich) is now potentially viewed as moderate or even center-left by some standards. As a result, progressives should be cautious in dismissing certain figures who, although appearing too conservative now (McCarthy), might be the moderating force in the future as the spectrum continues to evolve. By rejecting such figures, there's a risk of inadvertently empowering even more extreme voices. It's evident when noting that several of Trump's staunchest supporters from the extreme right currently have reservations about McCarthy.

Appeasement doesn't work.

 

[Gospel]

Who TF said anything about appeasement?

 

[Gospel]

I'll reiterate for the last fucking time: McCarthy had his flaws, understood. If you're hopeful for a significantly better replacement, I'd say manage your expectations. I'm willing to wait and see, but I will remind you of my skepticism later. Do you truly believe we'll find a superior successor to McCarthy? Observe the current landscape: it's largely the same or perhaps even deteriorating. It might have been wiser to negotiate with McCarthy when he was in a vulnerable position. Instead, it seems progressives sided with the extreme right and gained absolutely nothing. While the right got what they wanted. Call it something else if you need that lullaby to sleep at night.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The hope is to get a member of the Problem Solvers Caucus who knows full well that shutting down the government to force cutting Social Security et al will destroy the GOP in 2024. The idea is not to give the Freedumb Caca a free hand that will cost the GOP dearly in the future. To begin the move away from GOP crazy. Some of us remember we have been here already. Berry Goldwater adopted the GOP crazies' destroy Social Security platform and it cost Goldwater a massive loss. Messing with Social Security became the deadly third rail of politics. It will be an issue for 2024.

 

[Politesse]

With no Speaker nothing gets done.

Is that really a problem, from a Republican perspective? Their whole goal is to cripple if not dismantle the federal government, while lining their own pockets. No Republican legislator on the national level has "gotten something done" (other than tax kickbacks to their buddies) in over a decade.

It is when November comes and the majority party failed to do something as simple as select a leader, plunging the nation into a depression. So I don't see that happening. McConnell will walk over with a cattle prod to get things moving before that happens.

That would really hurt a Democratic candidate, but Republicans don't usually campaign on the basis of their policy and legislation successes. They run on the strength of their convictions and values.

 

[Politesse]

I'll reiterate for the last fucking time: McCarthy had his flaws, understood. If you're hopeful for a significantly better replacement, I'd say manage your expectations. I'm willing to wait and see, but I will remind you of my skepticism later. Do you truly believe we'll find a superior successor to McCarthy? Observe the current landscape: it's largely the same or perhaps even deteriorating. It might have been wiser to negotiate with McCarthy when he was in a vulnerable position. Instead, it seems progressives sided with the extreme right and gained absolutely nothing. While the right got what they wanted. Call it something else if you need that lullaby to sleep at night.

If it was just "progressives", the vote would still have landed 2 to 1 in McCarthy's favor. But he had managed to piss off everyone, not just the extremists to either side.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Goodbye Kevie! Now we won't have Kevin McCarthy to kick around anymore.

........
Kevin McCarthy is considering resigning from the House before the end of his term, two people familiar with the matter told POLITICO.

The deposed former speaker has made clear he plans to stay at least through the speakership election that begins next week before ending his House career, these people said, in order to help the party steady itself after a seismic shakeup.
.....

Kevin McCarthy considers resigning from the House before the end of his term

The deposed former speaker has made clear he plans to stay at least through the speakership election before ending his House career, two people familiar with the matter tell POLITICO.

www.politico.com

 

[Elixir]

it seems progressives sided with the extreme right

Where “progressives” means Democrats.
They VOTED with the freedumb cockus, but “sided with” implies an ideological alignment that goes not exist.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'll reiterate for the last fucking time: McCarthy had his flaws, understood.

Flaws?! We nearly shutdown government because of said flaws.

If you're hopeful for a significantly better replacement, I'd say manage your expectations. I'm willing to wait and see, but I will remind you of my skepticism later. Do you truly believe we'll find a superior successor to McCarthy?

That depends of the majority party. They are free to put forth an adult for the role. I doubt the Dems wouldn't support a Chris Smith.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Well, McCarthy minced out of his office to announe, no, he his not quitting Congress. Yet.