Government Shutdown Averted?

[SimpleDon]

Once again, a border wall is doomed to be a failure. Any kind of immigration is a matter of supply and demand and a border wall doesn't reduce either. Like regulation on an economic transaction, it doesn't reduce either the supply or the demand it only raises the price of the goods, in the case of illegal immigration that is the cost paid to coyotes to help enter the country.

This is because the demand for cheap labor in the US virtually unlimited and therefore is a horizontal line, insensitive to the wage level as long as it is lower than the wages paid for native workers.

And the supply is virtually unlimited making it a vertical line, insensitive to the wages paid because the wage for most in their home country varies from zero to a few dollars a day.

We must concentrate on those measures that will reduce both the supply and the demand for cheap labor. Reduce the demand by strengthening and enforcing the laws against hiring illegals, actually putting violators in jail rather than fining the company for example. Fining the company as a person reduces the impact of the fines for hiring illegals as no more than just a cost of doing business.

And reduce the supply by pursuing those measures to increase the wage levels in their home countries, reducing our trade with other countries like China and increasing our trade with Mexico and Central America, for example.

 

[J842P]

Once again, a border wall is doomed to be a failure. Any kind of immigration is a matter of supply and demand and a border wall doesn't reduce either. Like regulation on an economic transaction, it doesn't reduce either the supply or the demand it only raises the price of the goods, in the case of illegal immigration that is the cost paid to coyotes to help enter the country.

This is because the demand for cheap labor in the US virtually unlimited and therefore is a horizontal line, insensitive to the wage level as long as it is lower than the wages paid for native workers.

And the supply is virtually unlimited making it a vertical line, insensitive to the wages paid because the wage for most in their home country varies from zero to a few dollars a day.

We must concentrate on those measures that will reduce both the supply and the demand for cheap labor. Reduce the demand by strengthening and enforcing the laws against hiring illegals, actually putting violators in jail rather than fining the company for example. Fining the company as a person reduces the impact of the fines for hiring illegals as no more than just a cost of doing business.

And reduce the supply by pursuing those measures to increase the wage levels in their home countries, reducing our trade with other countries like China and increasing our trade with Mexico and Central America, for example.

But the wall would be so beautiful and grand.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

But the wall would be so beautiful and grand.

Hey, don't call it a wall. It's an edifice of interlinked steel slats.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

But the wall would be so beautiful and grand.

Hey, don't call it a wall. It's an edifice of interlinked steel slats.

Look at the photos of it. They look like jail bars.

He may not be building that wall to keep outsiders out....

 

[Copernicus]

Yup. He heard Steve doocy on Fox and friends claim that trump was betraying his base again. Fuck me. Stupid idiots.

But shut it down. For weeks. Nay for months. America deserves trump. They need to really experience his presidency. Hope the markets crash even more. Fuck 'em all.

Unfortunately, the markets crashing is mostly going to hurt the middle class. It's already having a significant impact on me.

I need to dip into some savings to pay for relocation and deal with a bunch of family stuff, and if I take out, say $10k to pay for things now, it's already the equivalent of having to take out almost $18k if it were just 6 weeks ago.

Really? What are you invested in that's lost over 40% of its value in the past 6 weeks? "Free Mike Flynn" T-shirts?

I can't speak for him, but let me tell you that I just lost thousands of dollars out of my 401K retirement fund. The reason is that I am over 70 1/2, which is the point at which one has to start drawing large sums out annually. Usually, I wait until the end of the year, since I can't really earn more interest on the money in a bank. A large portion of those funds are in the stock market, and the way it works is that the stocks are sold to create the payout. Because of things beyond my control (except in hindsight), those stocks are being sold today, just as the stock market is having its biggest meltdown since maybe the Great Depression. Those stocks are being sold at bargain rates, and I have no way to stop it. The penalty for not taking the money is to lose half of it.

My personal situation is directly related to the government shutdown, but the Syria debacle is playing a role, too. This mess will affect a great many retirees, because it is a common practice to wait until the end of the year to take a forced disbursement. Thankfully, Social Security has not yet been privatized, or I would suffer an even greater loss.

Oh, and I'll be travelling by air while the government is partially shut down. TSA screeners and air traffic controllers will not be being paid on those days, but they will hopefully believe that Trump will pay them retroactively for their service. Why wouldn't he? Not doing so would just be stupid, and why would he do something so stupid as to try to stiff government workers?

 

[Axulus]

Really? What are you invested in that's lost over 40% of its value in the past 6 weeks? "Free Mike Flynn" T-shirts?

I can't speak for him, but let me tell you that I just lost thousands of dollars out of my 401K retirement fund. The reason is that I am over 70 1/2, which is the point at which one has to start drawing large sums out annually. Usually, I wait until the end of the year, since I can't really earn more interest on the money in a bank. A large portion of those funds are in the stock market, and the way it works is that the stocks are sold to create the payout. Because of things beyond my control (except in hindsight), those stocks are being sold today, just as the stock market is having its biggest meltdown since maybe the Great Depression. Those stocks are being sold at bargain rates, and I have no way to stop it. The penalty for not taking the money is to lose half of it.

My personal situation is directly related to the government shutdown, but the Syria debacle is playing a role, too. This mess will affect a great many retirees, because it is a common practice to wait until the end of the year to take a forced disbursement. Thankfully, Social Security has not yet been privatized, or I would suffer an even greater loss.

Oh, and I'll be travelling by air while the government is partially shut down. TSA screeners and air traffic controllers will not be being paid on those days, but they will hopefully believe that Trump will pay them retroactively for their service. Why wouldn't he? Not doing so would just be stupid, and why would he do something so stupid as to try to stiff government workers?

You might want to get a different financial advisor. At your age, you shouldn't have more than about 40% of your retirement account in stocks (unless it is your plan and intent to pass a significant chunk of your account to heirs). You should have a large chunk in mid-term and long-term bonds which have increased in value the last two months. With that kind of allocation, your account would only be down about 6% from the peak of a 10 year bull market.

 

[J842P]

Really? What are you invested in that's lost over 40% of its value in the past 6 weeks? "Free Mike Flynn" T-shirts?

I can't speak for him, but let me tell you that I just lost thousands of dollars out of my 401K retirement fund. The reason is that I am over 70 1/2, which is the point at which one has to start drawing large sums out annually. Usually, I wait until the end of the year, since I can't really earn more interest on the money in a bank. A large portion of those funds are in the stock market, and the way it works is that the stocks are sold to create the payout. Because of things beyond my control (except in hindsight), those stocks are being sold today, just as the stock market is having its biggest meltdown since maybe the Great Depression. Those stocks are being sold at bargain rates, and I have no way to stop it. The penalty for not taking the money is to lose half of it.

My personal situation is directly related to the government shutdown, but the Syria debacle is playing a role, too. This mess will affect a great many retirees, because it is a common practice to wait until the end of the year to take a forced disbursement. Thankfully, Social Security has not yet been privatized, or I would suffer an even greater loss.

Oh, and I'll be travelling by air while the government is partially shut down. TSA screeners and air traffic controllers will not be being paid on those days, but they will hopefully believe that Trump will pay them retroactively for their service. Why wouldn't he? Not doing so would just be stupid, and why would he do something so stupid as to try to stiff government workers?

You might want to get a different financial advisor. At your age, you shouldn't have more than about 40% of your retirement account in stocks (unless it is your plan and intent to pass a significant chunk of your account to heirs). You should have a large chunk in mid-term and long-term bonds which have increased in value the last two months. With that kind of allocation, your account would only be down about 6% from the peak of a 10 year bull market.

Yeah, I mean, I guess hindsight is 20/20, but it's not like target-date funds don't exist.

 

[Copernicus]

Really? What are you invested in that's lost over 40% of its value in the past 6 weeks? "Free Mike Flynn" T-shirts?

I can't speak for him, but let me tell you that I just lost thousands of dollars out of my 401K retirement fund. The reason is that I am over 70 1/2, which is the point at which one has to start drawing large sums out annually. Usually, I wait until the end of the year, since I can't really earn more interest on the money in a bank. A large portion of those funds are in the stock market, and the way it works is that the stocks are sold to create the payout. Because of things beyond my control (except in hindsight), those stocks are being sold today, just as the stock market is having its biggest meltdown since maybe the Great Depression. Those stocks are being sold at bargain rates, and I have no way to stop it. The penalty for not taking the money is to lose half of it.

My personal situation is directly related to the government shutdown, but the Syria debacle is playing a role, too. This mess will affect a great many retirees, because it is a common practice to wait until the end of the year to take a forced disbursement. Thankfully, Social Security has not yet been privatized, or I would suffer an even greater loss.

Oh, and I'll be travelling by air while the government is partially shut down. TSA screeners and air traffic controllers will not be being paid on those days, but they will hopefully believe that Trump will pay them retroactively for their service. Why wouldn't he? Not doing so would just be stupid, and why would he do something so stupid as to try to stiff government workers?

You might want to get a different financial advisor. At your age, you shouldn't have more than about 40% of your retirement account in stocks (unless it is your plan and intent to pass a significant chunk of your account to heirs). You should have a large chunk in mid-term and long-term bonds which have increased in value the last two months. With that kind of allocation, your account would only be down about 6% from the peak of a 10 year bull market.

What happened in my case had more to do with the management and red tape associated with the way mandatory withdrawals are arranged. This gotcha caught me by surprise, but I know how to avoid it for next year. I personally can actually afford to lose a few thousand dollars, but that isn't the point. This crash has hurt a great many people in different ways. I was unlucky this year, but a lot of people will have been hurt much worse. The value of retirement plans will be affected adversely for a lot of people who aren't retired yet, and they won't have financial advice that is as good as yours or mine.

 

[RavenSky]

But the real point is that, if it weren't for the GOP yet again cowering in the face of the bigoted idiot that leads their party, a veto-proof spending resolution could be easily passed with veto-proof majorities, and Dolt 45 would just scream and cry from the WH or Mara-Lago or wherever. The GOP as a whole is failing the country by refusing to sideline him where appropriate - which, given his obvious idiocy, is almost everywhere.

^^^ This!

 

[RavenSky]

But the wall would be so beautiful and grand.

It's not the wall. It's just WALL

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Really? What are you invested in that's lost over 40% of its value in the past 6 weeks? "Free Mike Flynn" T-shirts?

Sears would be a good example.

If you think Sears stock dropped because the market dropped, you should keep your money under the mattress.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

"Government Shutdown" is nothing more than hyped up bullshit. If the government "shuts down" don't expect any parts of the enforcement apparatus to shut down. You'll still pay taxes as well. You just can't go to the federal park.

Actually, you can. You just can’t use the crapper.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

You might want to get a different financial advisor. At your age, you shouldn't have more than about 40% of your retirement account in stocks (unless it is your plan and intent to pass a significant chunk of your account to heirs). You should have a large chunk in mid-term and long-term bonds which have increased in value the last two months. With that kind of allocation, your account would only be down about 6% from the peak of a 10 year bull market.

What happened in my case had more to do with the management and red tape associated with the way mandatory withdrawals are arranged. This gotcha caught me by surprise, but I know how to avoid it for next year. I personally can actually afford to lose a few thousand dollars, but that isn't the point. This crash has hurt a great many people in different ways. I was unlucky this year, but a lot of people will have been hurt much worse. The value of retirement plans will be affected adversely for a lot of people who aren't retired yet, and they won't have financial advice that is as good as yours or mine.

For people who aren’t retired yet, their long-term investment will bounce back. And people who make regular contributions to their retirement accounts are getting stocks at a discount now.

 

[Copernicus]

You might want to get a different financial advisor. At your age, you shouldn't have more than about 40% of your retirement account in stocks (unless it is your plan and intent to pass a significant chunk of your account to heirs). You should have a large chunk in mid-term and long-term bonds which have increased in value the last two months. With that kind of allocation, your account would only be down about 6% from the peak of a 10 year bull market.

What happened in my case had more to do with the management and red tape associated with the way mandatory withdrawals are arranged. This gotcha caught me by surprise, but I know how to avoid it for next year. I personally can actually afford to lose a few thousand dollars, but that isn't the point. This crash has hurt a great many people in different ways. I was unlucky this year, but a lot of people will have been hurt much worse. The value of retirement plans will be affected adversely for a lot of people who aren't retired yet, and they won't have financial advice that is as good as yours or mine.

For people who aren’t retired yet, their long-term investment will bounce back. And people who make regular contributions to their retirement accounts are getting stocks at a discount now.

Actually, my experience has been that stocks do not always rebound so quickly. When I was contributing to my retirement fund, there were a number of times where the bottom fell out, including especially the end of GW Bush's administration. It took a long time for the portfolio to rebound. The problem here is that we've been experiencing something of a boom in the stock market because of the artificial stimulus of the tax cuts for corporations. That has been largely wiped out, and there is some reason to believe that the economy is going to be stagnant or shrinking for a while. The Fed just raised the interest rate, and Trump has been livid over this because of the likely impact it will have on growth in the next two years.

 

[laughing dog]

You might want to get a different financial advisor. At your age, you shouldn't have more than about 40% of your retirement account in stocks (unless it is your plan and intent to pass a significant chunk of your account to heirs). You should have a large chunk in mid-term and long-term bonds which have increased in value the last two months. With that kind of allocation, your account would only be down about 6% from the peak of a 10 year bull market.

What happened in my case had more to do with the management and red tape associated with the way mandatory withdrawals are arranged. This gotcha caught me by surprise, but I know how to avoid it for next year. I personally can actually afford to lose a few thousand dollars, but that isn't the point. This crash has hurt a great many people in different ways. I was unlucky this year, but a lot of people will have been hurt much worse. The value of retirement plans will be affected adversely for a lot of people who aren't retired yet, and they won't have financial advice that is as good as yours or mine.

For people who aren’t retired yet, their long-term investment will bounce back. And people who make regular contributions to their retirement accounts are getting stocks at a discount now.

My retirement account took a 10% hit this quarter. For people near retirement (within 5 years), that would require a miraculous rate of growth to make that up.

 

[lpetrich]

So that shutdown got started.

Government shutdown: Congress to convene in search of deal - CNNPolitics

Lawmakers convened Saturday on Capitol Hill to continue negotiations on a spending deal just hours after members of Congress and President Donald Trump failed to come to an agreement, resulting in the third government shutdown of the year.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell announced on the Senate floor Saturday that there would be no action on the floor until Trump and Senate Democrats come to an agreement.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Really? What are you invested in that's lost over 40% of its value in the past 6 weeks? "Free Mike Flynn" T-shirts?

I can't speak for him, but let me tell you that I just lost thousands of dollars out of my 401K retirement fund. The reason is that I am over 70 1/2, which is the point at which one has to start drawing large sums out annually. Usually, I wait until the end of the year, since I can't really earn more interest on the money in a bank. A large portion of those funds are in the stock market, and the way it works is that the stocks are sold to create the payout. Because of things beyond my control (except in hindsight), those stocks are being sold today, just as the stock market is having its biggest meltdown since maybe the Great Depression. Those stocks are being sold at bargain rates, and I have no way to stop it. The penalty for not taking the money is to lose half of it.

And you don't have a decent amount of your 401k in stuff that isn't going to be so volatile to avoid this situation?!?!

You sell stock in good times, you sell bonds in bad times.

 

[Copernicus]

Really? What are you invested in that's lost over 40% of its value in the past 6 weeks? "Free Mike Flynn" T-shirts?

I can't speak for him, but let me tell you that I just lost thousands of dollars out of my 401K retirement fund. The reason is that I am over 70 1/2, which is the point at which one has to start drawing large sums out annually. Usually, I wait until the end of the year, since I can't really earn more interest on the money in a bank. A large portion of those funds are in the stock market, and the way it works is that the stocks are sold to create the payout. Because of things beyond my control (except in hindsight), those stocks are being sold today, just as the stock market is having its biggest meltdown since maybe the Great Depression. Those stocks are being sold at bargain rates, and I have no way to stop it. The penalty for not taking the money is to lose half of it.

And you don't have a decent amount of your 401k in stuff that isn't going to be so volatile to avoid this situation?!?!

You sell stock in good times, you sell bonds in bad times.

IRAs and 401K funds aren't quite as flexible as that. Once you pass the age of 70, the government requires that you withdraw a certain percentage of the principal, and the fund managers may have quirky requirements about where the funds come from, unless you are acquainted with the details in the novella-length statements that they send out periodically. It helps to have experience with playing the stock market, but most people--myself included--don't. Financial advisers all give different advice and have different products that they are pushing. I would like to be able to brag about my financial prowess, but I have learned from experience that the best way to acquire wealth is to refrain from spending money (and especially from gambling with stocks) as much as possible. At least, that's how it works in my case.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Really? What are you invested in that's lost over 40% of its value in the past 6 weeks? "Free Mike Flynn" T-shirts?

I can't speak for him, but let me tell you that I just lost thousands of dollars out of my 401K retirement fund. The reason is that I am over 70 1/2, which is the point at which one has to start drawing large sums out annually. Usually, I wait until the end of the year, since I can't really earn more interest on the money in a bank. A large portion of those funds are in the stock market, and the way it works is that the stocks are sold to create the payout. Because of things beyond my control (except in hindsight), those stocks are being sold today, just as the stock market is having its biggest meltdown since maybe the Great Depression. Those stocks are being sold at bargain rates, and I have no way to stop it. The penalty for not taking the money is to lose half of it.

And you don't have a decent amount of your 401k in stuff that isn't going to be so volatile to avoid this situation?!?!

You sell stock in good times, you sell bonds in bad times.

It is all the victim’s fault. Trump talking down the market isn’t a matter here.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

"Government Shutdown" is nothing more than hyped up bullshit. If the government "shuts down" don't expect any parts of the enforcement apparatus to shut down. You'll still pay taxes as well. You just can't go to the federal park.

Yawn.

People actually believe this "shutdown" is a big thing.

Some people depend on their paycheck.

It is playing with people's lives.

For an unneeded wall to protect us from Mexico.

Yawn.

Government employees get job security, at the expense of occasional budget disputes. Private sector employees don't have these disputes but have a higher chance of being laid off. It's a trade off and they knew what they'd get when they took the job. Plus for some (but not all) shutdowns you get back pay for the time of the shutdown.

Even then, most government employees don't actually contribute to the economy, government employment being a drain on the economy. They individually benefit, but at a cost to everyone else.