Government shutdown

[Derec]

During past government shutdowns, which all could be laid at the feet of the GOP, Democrats were quick to point out that government shutdowns are a bad idea - they are disruptive, and they end up costing more in the end.

But it seems the Senate Democrats are perfectly fine with shutting down the government, apparently over the DACA illegals. Most (everybody except a few, but I can't find their names) voted against cloture, which dooms a continuing resolution and shuts down government at midnight.

My question is, do Dems WANT to lose 2018?
My second question is, how come you need 50 years to change the entire tax code, but 60 to pass a damn CR?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Repugs are in control of everything federal. Why are they blaming the Jews for repug failures?

 

[Ford]

I'm going to shut down my computer for the night, but I'm going to pretend that I'm not actually responsible for the shut down despite the fact that my fingers pushed the CTRL ALT DELETE keys.

 

[Philos]

Folks,

I'm smiling at Trump's tweets back in the Obama shutdown.

A.

 

[Bronzeage]

Has it occurred to anyone else, if Hillary had won the election, we would still have a shut down government at this point, thus showing how ineffective Trump is as a President.

 

[Harry Bosch]

During past government shutdowns, which all could be laid at the feet of the GOP, Democrats were quick to point out that government shutdowns are a bad idea - they are disruptive, and they end up costing more in the end.

But it seems the Senate Democrats are perfectly fine with shutting down the government, apparently over the DACA illegals. Most (everybody except a few, but I can't find their names) voted against cloture, which dooms a continuing resolution and shuts down government at midnight.

My question is, do Dems WANT to lose 2018?
My second question is, how come you need 50 years to change the entire tax code, but 60 to pass a damn CR?

Negative. It's your crazy party that controls our government. You control every segment of it. You own this. If your guys can't handle the pressure - they should resign. Whining about the minority party with minimal power is pathetic.

 

[laughing dog]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

BTW, since opinion polls show the American public overwhelmingly supports allowing the "DACA" children to remain in the US and that poor children should have ready access to medical care, and since Congress has had many months to fix both, it is disgrace that DACA and CHIPS issues have not been adequately addressed.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

BTW, since opinion polls show the American public overwhelmingly supports allowing the "DACA" children to remain in the US and that poor children should have ready access to medical care, and since Congress has had many months to fix both, it is disgrace that DACA and CHIPS issues have not been adequately addressed.

It's pretty obvious to me that this is a repug tactic to remove 700,000 potential votes from democratic tickets. That's a lot of votes.

 

[Horatio Parker]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

BTW, since opinion polls show the American public overwhelmingly supports allowing the "DACA" children to remain in the US and that poor children should have ready access to medical care, and since Congress has had many months to fix both, it is disgrace that DACA and CHIPS issues have not been adequately addressed.

It's pretty obvious to me that this is a repug tactic to remove 700,000 potential votes from democratic tickets. That's a lot of votes.

Yeah, but very short term. They're alienating a constituency.

 

[RavenSky]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

BTW, since opinion polls show the American public overwhelmingly supports allowing the "DACA" children to remain in the US and that poor children should have ready access to medical care, and since Congress has had many months to fix both, it is disgrace that DACA and CHIPS issues have not been adequately addressed.

That is because ONE party refused to address either.

 

[Harry Bosch]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

BTW, since opinion polls show the American public overwhelmingly supports allowing the "DACA" children to remain in the US and that poor children should have ready access to medical care, and since Congress has had many months to fix both, it is disgrace that DACA and CHIPS issues have not been adequately addressed.

That is because ONE party refused to address either.

The republicans know that they are in trouble. Most americans support the dreamers and want children to have health care. Rather than fix these issues, the republicans want to kick the can down the road.

 

[jonatha]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

Actually, the Democrats are saying "Address what we want and we'll give you the money you've requested for border security" and the Republicans are saying "No".

Those two statements really don't seem to be the same somehow...

- - - Updated - - -

It's pretty obvious to me that this is a repug tactic to remove 700,000 potential votes from democratic tickets. That's a lot of votes.

Inasmuch as DACA recipients are by definition noncitizens it seems like a strange tactic. (Long-term strategy, maybe.)

And I doubt many of them are in swing districts. (Practically nobody is in a swing district anymore...)

 

[Opoponax]

If only we had someone to help bridge the gap between the two parties. Some great... hmm, maybe someone with a reputation and record for... what's the word I'm looking for...

Ah yes: a dealmaker. Someone who truly knows the art of the deal. Someone who intimately knows what it is to negotiate and bring about a result that's a win-win for all. What America needs is a great businessman who can cut through all the partisan divides. Someone who's not of Washington, but from outside of it. One who can bring new insight, strategy, and tactics to fix what's wrong.

Oh, if only there were such a person at our disposal.

 

[laughing dog]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

Actually, the Democrats are saying "Address what we want and we'll give you the money you've requested for border security" and the Republicans are saying "No".

Those two statements really don't seem to be the same somehow...

The Republicans are saying "No, address what we want and only what we want".

These people have had plenty of time to come up with a compromise. There should be no need for a continuing resolution - the budget should have been passed in toto much earlier in this session. There should be no need for addressing the CHIPS or DACA situation now.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

BTW, since opinion polls show the American public overwhelmingly supports allowing the "DACA" children to remain in the US and that poor children should have ready access to medical care, and since Congress has had many months to fix both, it is disgrace that DACA and CHIPS issues have not been adequately addressed.

That is because ONE party refused to address either.

The republicans know that they are in trouble. Most americans support the dreamers and want children to have health care. Rather than fix these issues, the republicans want to kick the can down the road.

The dems are not going to abandon their base. I don't understand how the repugs don't recognize this. Well, yes I do, they're ideological idiots, not compromising legislators.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The republicans know that they are in trouble. Most americans support the dreamers and want children to have health care. Rather than fix these issues, the republicans want to kick the can down the road.

The dems are not going to abandon their base. I don't understand how the repugs don't recognize this. Well, yes I do, they're ideological idiots, not compromising legislators.

I believe that the republicans are in a difficult spot. They have a demographics problem. Their base (older white Christians) are a shrinking base.

 

[Elixir]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

BTW, since opinion polls show the American public overwhelmingly supports allowing the "DACA" children to remain in the US and that poor children should have ready access to medical care, and since Congress has had many months to fix both, it is disgrace that DACA and CHIPS issues have not been adequately addressed.

Well yeah - Congress is in paralysis. There is absolutely no question that Trump is at fault. His dishonest business tactics aren't working as well as he expected. It hasn't dawned upon him that you can't agree with (relatively honest) people, then change your mind like a fickle schoolgirl. To expect the majority party of both houses that you're supposed to be leading to follow his meandering lead is the height of hubris. Trump is so ignorant and shortsighted, he thinks his rethuglican lackeys should make a deal, agree to a bunch of concessions to get it voted in, then remove those provisions after it passes. He has probably assured them that no matter what concessions they make, even if they remain in the bill, he will strike them down them with his mighty executive order!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Interesting bit: The overall cost of CHIP is negative. (Without it they would spend more on ACA subsidies.)

 

[Opoponax]

In this situation, both parties are saying "Address what we want and only what we want or we don't have an agreement". So how can anyone rationally blame a particular party, especially the party in the minority in both chambers?

BTW, since opinion polls show the American public overwhelmingly supports allowing the "DACA" children to remain in the US and that poor children should have ready access to medical care, and since Congress has had many months to fix both, it is disgrace that DACA and CHIPS issues have not been adequately addressed.

Well yeah - Congress is in paralysis. There is absolutely no question that Trump is at fault. His dishonest business tactics aren't working as well as he expected. It hasn't dawned upon him that you can't agree with (relatively honest) people, then change your mind like a fickle schoolgirl. To expect the majority party of both houses that you're supposed to be leading to follow his meandering lead is the height of hubris. Trump is so ignorant and shortsighted, he thinks his rethuglican lackeys should make a deal, agree to a bunch of concessions to get it voted in, then remove those provisions after it passes. He has probably assured them that no matter what concessions they make, even if they remain in the bill, he will strike them down them with his mighty executive order!

That is what Trump does; he deals in bad faith.

For example, if he needs a project to get built for $1 million dollars, he'll agree to pay a total of $1.2 million, but then skieve his way out of the 20% by refusing to pay what he agreed to, or by hanging people out to dry for long enough, so that eventually he'll offer to pay them, but at a reduced rate. If they don't agree, then they can get fucked, which leaves the non-breaching party in the position of having to sue and hope for recovery of incidental damages, consequential damages (if any), expectation damages, and attorney's fees unless they expressly waived or didn't include legal fees in the contract. If the latter is the case (attorney's fees), then litigation is usually not worthwhile unless there's a statute providing for such fees in the given situation. Or, they can eschew legal remedies, cut their losses and move on, and hopefully find a way to deduct what they got screwed out of.

One way or another, the party that dealt with Trump takes a fucking.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I believe that the republicans are in a difficult spot. They have a demographics problem. Their base (older white Christians) are a shrinking base.

But the Russians make them seem so much larger.