Gwyneth Paltrow bee sting therapy kills woman

[Underseer]

https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ng-therapy-healed-her-it-just-killed-a-woman/

Can we please go back to prosecuting people for practicing medicine without a license? Please?

 

[Underseer]

A 55-year-old Spanish woman has died following repeated exposures to an acupuncture method that uses live, stinging bees instead of traditional needles, according to a recent case report in the Journal of Investigational Allergology and Clinical Immunology.

So acupuncture hasn't been shown to work by valid research, so of course doing acupuncture with bees instead of needles is also not going to cure anyone of anything. That woman died doing something that couldn't possibly cure whatever she was trying to cure. Worse, research has shown that this particular procedure can have dangerous side effects, including death.

 

[bilby]

https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ng-therapy-healed-her-it-just-killed-a-woman/

Can we please go back to prosecuting people for practicing medicine without a license? Please?

It would also help if we were to recognize that celebrity and renown are not scientific or medical qualifications.

 

[Underseer]

https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ng-therapy-healed-her-it-just-killed-a-woman/

Can we please go back to prosecuting people for practicing medicine without a license? Please?

It would also help if we were to recognize that celebrity and renown are not scientific or medical qualifications.

Back in the 1980s or 1990s, two Democratic senators in America passed a deregulation bill that opened up a loophole for alternative medicine. Paltrow's GOOP is living in that loophole. If we close the loophole, we can go back to prosecuting such people for practicing medicine without a license.

 

[thebeave]

https://pagesix.com/2018/01/27/health-nuts-spend-hundreds-at-goops-wild-health-summit/

Gwyneth Paltrow’s Goop health summit came to town Saturday, with the actress hawking potions, lotions and arguably dangerous medical notions.

The one-day event, priced at $650-$2,000 a ticket, attracted about 600 yoga pants-wearing women to the South Street Seaport for 10 hours of meditations, “non-toxic” spa remedies, tarot card readings, anti-aging LED face mask treatments, shopping and other activities centered around Paltrow’s cult-like Goop philosophy. The actress was on hand, along with celebrity pals Drew Barrymore, Chelsea Handler and Laura Linney.

“Our mission is to really open doors and help ourselves and others really get close to what their purpose might be,” Paltrow told hordes of her true believers. “We’re brave, we’re not afraid to ask questions. We like to shine light on things.”

Yeah, you're shining some light on things all right. Like how big of a fucking moron and/or scam artist you are. And speaking of shining a light on things, how about that LED face mask beauty treatment? You could wear this on your face while wearing those waist slimming plastic pants from the 70's that you connect to your vacuum cleaner? Get good looking AND slim at the same time with no effort at all!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is incredible how certain things like this can be promoted and practiced.

It seems not too far a jump from, we must be cautious about medications we take because of side effects and risks to sting me with bees to cure my ills!

A 55-year-old Spanish woman has died following repeated exposures to an acupuncture method that uses live, stinging bees instead of traditional needles, according to a recent case report in the Journal of Investigational Allergology and Clinical Immunology.

So acupuncture hasn't been shown to work by valid research, so of course doing acupuncture with bees instead of needles is also not going to cure anyone of anything. That woman died doing something that couldn't possibly cure whatever she was trying to cure. Worse, research has shown that this particular procedure can have dangerous side effects, including death.

I thought I saw some studies a while ago indicating acupuncture worked about as well as drugs for arthritis, but it needed to be done often. Of course, that research might have been debunked.

 

[Underseer]

It is incredible how certain things like this can be promoted and practiced.

It seems not too far a jump from, we must be cautious about medications we take because of side effects and risks to sting me with bees to cure my ills!

A 55-year-old Spanish woman has died following repeated exposures to an acupuncture method that uses live, stinging bees instead of traditional needles, according to a recent case report in the Journal of Investigational Allergology and Clinical Immunology.

So acupuncture hasn't been shown to work by valid research, so of course doing acupuncture with bees instead of needles is also not going to cure anyone of anything. That woman died doing something that couldn't possibly cure whatever she was trying to cure. Worse, research has shown that this particular procedure can have dangerous side effects, including death.

I thought I saw some studies a while ago indicating acupuncture worked about as well as drugs for arthritis, but it needed to be done often. Of course, that research might have been debunked.

https://nccih.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/introduction

More study needed. It might help manage pain, but so can a placebo. Other studies show that more expensive placebos work better than cheap placebos.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It is incredible how certain things like this can be promoted and practiced.

It seems not too far a jump from, we must be cautious about medications we take because of side effects and risks to sting me with bees to cure my ills!

I thought I saw some studies a while ago indicating acupuncture worked about as well as drugs for arthritis, but it needed to be done often. Of course, that research might have been debunked.

https://nccih.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/introduction

More study needed. It might help manage pain, but so can a placebo. Other studies show that more expensive placebos work better than cheap placebos.

Given the nature of the placebo effect, wouldn't it also be the case that placebos endorsed by celebrities are more effective than placebos without celebrity endorsement? I mean, if Iron Man tells me that shoving some moss from the slopes of an Indonesian volcano up my ass will cure my genital warts, that would seem to be more valid than just reading it from the side of a box on a shelf in the pharmacy.

 

[Underseer]

It is incredible how certain things like this can be promoted and practiced.

It seems not too far a jump from, we must be cautious about medications we take because of side effects and risks to sting me with bees to cure my ills!

I thought I saw some studies a while ago indicating acupuncture worked about as well as drugs for arthritis, but it needed to be done often. Of course, that research might have been debunked.

https://nccih.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/introduction

More study needed. It might help manage pain, but so can a placebo. Other studies show that more expensive placebos work better than cheap placebos.

Given the nature of the placebo effect, wouldn't it also be the case that placebos endorsed by celebrities are more effective than placebos without celebrity endorsement? I mean, if Iron Man tells me that shoving some moss from the slopes of an Indonesian volcano up my ass will cure my genital warts, that would seem to be more valid than just reading it from the side of a box on a shelf in the pharmacy.

I don't doubt that at all.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ng-therapy-healed-her-it-just-killed-a-woman/

Can we please go back to prosecuting people for practicing medicine without a license? Please?

It would also help if we were to recognize that celebrity and renown are not scientific or medical qualifications.

Back in the 1980s or 1990s, two Democratic senators in America passed a deregulation bill that opened up a loophole for alternative medicine. Paltrow's GOOP is living in that loophole. If we close the loophole, we can go back to prosecuting such people for practicing medicine without a license.

It's not so much a loophole for alternative medicine as a lack of enforcement of the laws that do exist.

Here we have I believe 68 licensees (I'm looking at a scan of a printout of an Excel sheet, I think I counted the lines correctly) paying $700/yr. That means they have a budget of $47,600/yr not counting any fees from new applicants (and I doubt the application fee is enough to pay the costs.) That seriously limits the amount of enforcement action they can take against unlicensed operations and the last time I heard of someone getting caught the result was a $2000 fine.

We also have physical therapists trying to butt in. They're calling it "dry needling"--acupuncture in all but name. Sorry, but a few days or weeks of training isn't going to turn a physical therapist (who has the anatomy knowledge but nothing else) into a competent acupuncturist. Unfortunately, they have a lot bigger licensing board and said board is more interested in helping the physical therapists than in the patients.

 

[bilby]

Back in the 1980s or 1990s, two Democratic senators in America passed a deregulation bill that opened up a loophole for alternative medicine. Paltrow's GOOP is living in that loophole. If we close the loophole, we can go back to prosecuting such people for practicing medicine without a license.

It's not so much a loophole for alternative medicine as a lack of enforcement of the laws that do exist.

Here we have I believe 68 licensees (I'm looking at a scan of a printout of an Excel sheet, I think I counted the lines correctly) paying $700/yr. That means they have a budget of $47,600/yr not counting any fees from new applicants (and I doubt the application fee is enough to pay the costs.) That seriously limits the amount of enforcement action they can take against unlicensed operations and the last time I heard of someone getting caught the result was a $2000 fine.

We also have physical therapists trying to butt in. They're calling it "dry needling"--acupuncture in all but name. Sorry, but a few days or weeks of training isn't going to turn a physical therapist (who has the anatomy knowledge but nothing else) into a competent acupuncturist. Unfortunately, they have a lot bigger licensing board and said board is more interested in helping the physical therapists than in the patients.

"Competent acupuncturist" is oxymoronic. Acupuncture is at best a placebo; Competence at it requires only that the patient believes that it might work. Literally anyone who practices acupuncture without accidentally saying 'of course, this treatment cannot possibly be effective' is as "competent" as it is possible to be.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Back in the 1980s or 1990s, two Democratic senators in America passed a deregulation bill that opened up a loophole for alternative medicine. Paltrow's GOOP is living in that loophole. If we close the loophole, we can go back to prosecuting such people for practicing medicine without a license.

It's not so much a loophole for alternative medicine as a lack of enforcement of the laws that do exist.

Here we have I believe 68 licensees (I'm looking at a scan of a printout of an Excel sheet, I think I counted the lines correctly) paying $700/yr. That means they have a budget of $47,600/yr not counting any fees from new applicants (and I doubt the application fee is enough to pay the costs.) That seriously limits the amount of enforcement action they can take against unlicensed operations and the last time I heard of someone getting caught the result was a $2000 fine.

We also have physical therapists trying to butt in. They're calling it "dry needling"--acupuncture in all but name. Sorry, but a few days or weeks of training isn't going to turn a physical therapist (who has the anatomy knowledge but nothing else) into a competent acupuncturist. Unfortunately, they have a lot bigger licensing board and said board is more interested in helping the physical therapists than in the patients.

"Competent acupuncturist" is oxymoronic. Acupuncture is at best a placebo; Competence at it requires only that the patient believes that it might work. Literally anyone who practices acupuncture without accidentally saying 'of course, this treatment cannot possibly be effective' is as "competent" as it is possible to be.

There's no doubt that there is a placebo effect in at least some cases. However, that doesn't explain results better than placebo.

 

[Underseer]

Back in the 1980s or 1990s, two Democratic senators in America passed a deregulation bill that opened up a loophole for alternative medicine. Paltrow's GOOP is living in that loophole. If we close the loophole, we can go back to prosecuting such people for practicing medicine without a license.

It's not so much a loophole for alternative medicine as a lack of enforcement of the laws that do exist.

Here we have I believe 68 licensees (I'm looking at a scan of a printout of an Excel sheet, I think I counted the lines correctly) paying $700/yr. That means they have a budget of $47,600/yr not counting any fees from new applicants (and I doubt the application fee is enough to pay the costs.) That seriously limits the amount of enforcement action they can take against unlicensed operations and the last time I heard of someone getting caught the result was a $2000 fine.

We also have physical therapists trying to butt in. They're calling it "dry needling"--acupuncture in all but name. Sorry, but a few days or weeks of training isn't going to turn a physical therapist (who has the anatomy knowledge but nothing else) into a competent acupuncturist. Unfortunately, they have a lot bigger licensing board and said board is more interested in helping the physical therapists than in the patients.

You speak as though acupuncture is legitimate.

Very well.

For ten thousand dollars, I will perform acupuncture on you with bee stings. It will cure your bunions, make you immune to cancer, and lengthen your life span. Isn't that worth ten thousand dollars?

 

[Underseer]

"Competent acupuncturist" is oxymoronic. Acupuncture is at best a placebo; Competence at it requires only that the patient believes that it might work. Literally anyone who practices acupuncture without accidentally saying 'of course, this treatment cannot possibly be effective' is as "competent" as it is possible to be.

There's no doubt that there is a placebo effect in at least some cases. However, that doesn't explain results better than placebo.

Show me the scientific evidence for your health claims.

Do you also use ground up rhino horns as an aphrodisiac? Yeesh.

 

[Angry Floof]

 

[bilby]

"Competent acupuncturist" is oxymoronic. Acupuncture is at best a placebo; Competence at it requires only that the patient believes that it might work. Literally anyone who practices acupuncture without accidentally saying 'of course, this treatment cannot possibly be effective' is as "competent" as it is possible to be.

There's no doubt that there is a placebo effect in at least some cases. However, that doesn't explain results better than placebo.

Do you have a single shred of actual evidence of any such results?

NB - Not anecdotes not testimonials; Evidence.

 

[Peez]

"Competent acupuncturist" is oxymoronic. Acupuncture is at best a placebo; Competence at it requires only that the patient believes that it might work. Literally anyone who practices acupuncture without accidentally saying 'of course, this treatment cannot possibly be effective' is as "competent" as it is possible to be.

There's no doubt that there is a placebo effect in at least some cases. However, that doesn't explain results better than placebo.

Do you have a single shred of actual evidence of any such results?

NB - Not anecdotes not testimonials; Evidence.

Failing that, perhaps an explanation of how acupuncture might, hypothetically, work (with at least a nod to physics, chemistry, and biology).

Peez

 

[JohnG]

I believe acupuncture is to align ones chi (energy).

As far as I can see the only plausible mechanism is magic.