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Harriet Tubman on the $20 bill

 
 
 
DrZoidberg said:
But Harriet Tubman has played no part in shaping American democracy. If she goes on the money she'll stick out like a sore thumb. No, it's not because she's black or a woman.

The founding fathers of Sweden were terrible people. Gustavus Vasa, who created the nation, was a psychopath on level with Hitler or Stalin. It makes sense not to have him on our money and longer.
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Associating Tubman with Hitler and Stalin makes me think that you are uninformed at best and that your judgement is impaired at the very least. If I were teaching a class I would thank you for your participation.
 
I don't care if they put MC Hammer on the $20.00. I've been looking at faces on money that most likely had a family member somewhere down my blood line killed for eating a goddamn cookie. Anyone not on the enforcement side of slavery would be nice. Oh and sorry to sound like an ass, but I don't think the choice of what black person to put on US Currency should be made or debated by white people. Yall enjoy this thread now buh bye.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
DrZoidberg said:
But Harriet Tubman has played no part in shaping American democracy. If she goes on the money she'll stick out like a sore thumb. No, it's not because she's black or a woman.

The founding fathers of Sweden were terrible people. Gustavus Vasa, who created the nation, was a psychopath on level with Hitler or Stalin. It makes sense not to have him on our money and longer.
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Associating Tubman with Hitler and Stalin makes me think that you are uninformed at best and that your judgement is impaired at the very least. If I were teaching a class I would thank you for your participation.
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Please explain to me in what way I associated Tubman and Hitler? Please help me follow your bizarre and twisted logic.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
What other black women prospective candidates would you choose merely for analysis?
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None. That's what I mean with throwing the black community a bone. Harriet Tubman was undoubtedly a hero, but what was her political impact? What power did she have? She was active in the suffragette movement in later years. But it's unclear whether anybody outside the black community gave a shit about her, or she was just treated like a celebrity. Frederick Douglass is a similar character. While admirable and awesome his one thing was the fight for black rights. Not for something general that impacts all Americans.
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Wow!
 
Bomb#20 said:
DrZoidberg said:
If Americans put a black person on American money it's got to be a black person of the same political weight and dignity as the rest of them. Otherwise, isn't it an insult to blacks? The other guys on the money are pretty damn amazing.
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She's got more dignity than the rest of those guys put together. Amazing? They're a bunch of bloody politicians. They made speeches. I say get rid of the lot of them and put people on our money who did something useful themselves. Barton. Tubman. Tesla. Yeager. Salk.
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What did Yeager ever do? It isn't like he helped the entire nation break the sound barrier. ;)

Barton only sought to heel the wounded.

Tesla, if given enough resources would have blown up the planet by accident.

And Salk? Talk about one trick pony. Created a vaccine for a disease that only some people got.
 
DrZoidberg said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
DrZoidberg said:
But Harriet Tubman has played no part in shaping American democracy. If she goes on the money she'll stick out like a sore thumb. No, it's not because she's black or a woman.

The founding fathers of Sweden were terrible people. Gustavus Vasa, who created the nation, was a psychopath on level with Hitler or Stalin. It makes sense not to have him on our money and longer.
Click to expand...
Associating Tubman with Hitler and Stalin makes me think that you are uninformed at best and that your judgement is impaired at the very least. If I were teaching a class I would thank you for your participation.
Click to expand...

Please explain to me in what way I associated Tubman and Hitler? Please help me follow your bizarre and twisted logic.
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Juxtaposition, look it up.
 
Poland once had Chopin on a banknote. Israel did the same with Einstein. I like that approach -- celebrating all sorts of human achievement. Why restrict the list to bigwigs in governance?
There's a side of me that likes the choice of Harriet because, on a Firing Line show from the 70s, when her name came up, it was a surprise to William F. Buckley -- he had never heard of her! So, by all means, let's celebrate an audacious woman who brought people to freedom. Teachable moment.
And it's time to signal the sea change that James Baldwin noted in 1955: "The world is white no longer, and it will never be white again." Recognition for Harriet Tubman is a celebratory, as opposed to vindictive, way to echo that.
 
ideologyhunter said:
Poland once had Chopin on a banknote. Israel did the same with Einstein. I like that approach -- celebrating all sorts of human achievement. Why restrict the list to bigwigs in governance?
There's a side of me that likes the choice of Harriet because, on a Firing Line show from the 70s, when her name came up, it was a surprise to William F. Buckley -- he had never heard of her! So, by all means, let's celebrate an audacious woman who brought people to freedom. Teachable moment.
And it's time to signal the sea change that James Baldwin noted in 1955: "The world is white no longer, and it will never be white again." Recognition for Harriet Tubman is a celebratory, as opposed to vindictive, way to echo that.
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If it's people who fought for American freedoms it makes sense. But I suspect that there's American presidents presently on the banknotes who didn't expand American freedom in any major way.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
DrZoidberg said:
No, I didn't.
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That's right, you didn't look up juxtaposition. Because if you had, you'd realize you juxtapositioned Harriet Tubman with some pretty nasty people. If that honestly wasn't your intent, you need a refresher on communication.
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If you have no interest in honestly discussing the topic, then why are you pressing the keys on your keyboard? Do you really need me to clarify that I don't think Harriet Tubman was just as bad as Hitler? I also mentioned Tubman together with American presidents. That didn't make you react, did it? So I guess that's not the your problem.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
DrZoidberg said:
No, I didn't.
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That's right, you didn't look up juxtaposition. Because if you had, you'd realize you juxtapositioned Harriet Tubman with some pretty nasty people. If that honestly wasn't your intent, you need a refresher on communication.
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Do you really need me to clarify that I don't think Harriet Tubman was just as bad as Hitler?
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If you don't want people to think you equate Tubman with Hitler and Stalin, it is best not to mention them at all, especially in consecutive paragraphs regarding why people shouldn't be on currency. You needlessly brought them into the conversation.

You've already stated Tubman is a notable American. Unlike politicians, she directly made a massive difference in the lives of many people, at the risk of being murdered if caught. As an American, she fought way over her weight. She wasn't the brightest or have much in the way of resources, but that didn't matter. She is a symbol of what you can accomplish with raw grit and determination (and faith). Tubman lacked any power of authority, but managed to provide dozens of people their freedom, in a time before faster than horse travel and GPS.
 
If you don't want people to think you equate Tubman with Hitler and Stalin, it is best not to mention them at all, especially in consecutive paragraphs regarding why people shouldn't be on currency. You needlessly brought them into the conversation.
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I didn't think [MENTION=65]DrZoidberg[/MENTION]; was unclear. He was comparing the U.S. founders usually found on currency to a Swedish king who founded Sweden and used to be on the currency. That king is who he compared to Stalin and Hitler.
He wasn't comparing Tubman to those guys at all.
Tom
 
There's a side of me that likes the choice of Harriet because, on a Firing Line show from the 70s, when her name came up, it was a surprise to William F. Buckley -- he had never heard of her! So, by all means, let's celebrate an audacious woman who brought people to freedom. Teachable moment.
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This is a huge part of the reason I like Tubman.

Not only does it help strip some of the whitewash off our history, but it celebrates someone who isn't well known. Tubman is better known now than quite recently. But still nothing like Franklin etc. Her story is inspiring to all Americans trying to improve the fundamental morality of this country, black white or other

Tom
 
She's like Daniel Boone. You'll read about her exploits, but they usually sound like embellished folk tales, because no serious scholarly historians got the facts in her lifetime (as far as I know.) But the bounty on her head was real, and the fact that she repeatedly went back into slave country to rescue people is real.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
You've already stated Tubman is a notable American. Unlike politicians, she directly made a massive difference in the lives of many people, at the risk of being murdered if caught. As an American, she fought way over her weight. She wasn't the brightest or have much in the way of resources, but that didn't matter. She is a symbol of what you can accomplish with raw grit and determination (and faith). Tubman lacked any power of authority, but managed to provide dozens of people their freedom, in a time before faster than horse travel and GPS.
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Sure. But the list of illustrious Americans that would fit the above description is very long. Once you open it up to the greatest Americans overall isn't it hard to justify keeping the presidents on the money? But sure, you don't need a unifying theme for who goes on the money. But you are communicating something by who you chose to include. Or leave off the money.

So what does it say to have Harriet Tubman on the bills but not somebody like Neil Armstrong, Albert Einstein or Jonas Salk? Edison, Ford? MLK? Or even the IT industry greats. Even people like Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos through their innovations significantly shaped the lives of all people on the planet. Also social innovators breaking taboos and making the world freer for all humans. Craig Rodwell, one of the founders of Gay Pride, which led to gay rights for everybody. There's a lot of figures in the American sexual revolution movement that permanently shifted our views on sex and relationships in a way the rest of the world should be grateful for. It all started in USA. There's a lot of amazing Americans that have made both USA and the whole world a better place. So looking from the outside it comes across as odd that the first non-president or non-founding father to stick on the bill was an abolitionist. I'm not saying it's not worthy of merit. But it's crowded at the top in USA.

In Europe we go on an on about our nationals who have made any impact on the world stage. We hold them up as a matter of pride and stick them on our money. Americans are very singular in their focus on presidents and founding fathers. It was a Danish guy who figured out how to use electricity, Ørsted. He's on the money. Neil's Bohr figured out how quantum mechanics works. He's on the money.

Russia's historical leaders and notables were so controversial that Putin opted for not having people on the bills at all. That's also a way to do it.
 
So now the argument is, because other people deserve to be on the bill too, no to Tubman.
 
DrZoidberg said:
... Bill Gates ...
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But Bill Gates is trying to kill more than half the planet with vaccines. Haven't you heard of The Great Reset? Or this just shows how corrupt and in with Big Tech the Democrats are!!111! No, seriously, you seem to be leaving out a lot of the political practicality of Democrats and Republicans arguing over putting someone new on money. You seem to think there is generally earnest argument and then identity politics perverts it, instead of realizing that there are multiple dimensions to politics and a dialogue in democracy with spin and so forth. Democrats as a consensus are powerless to choose someone like Craig Rodwell or Gloria Steinem. They could choose Harriet Tubman or Albert Einstein and then when Republicans argue back, they can claim "Look Republicans are being racist again!" It's pretty much the only card that Democrats have left up our sleeves before our next fascist coup which will be within 2 months when Trump is re-installed as the The Chosenator.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
So now the argument is, because other people deserve to be on the bill too, no to Tubman.
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I'm not making any other argument than pointing out that there is a theme of the people on the American money. Tubman breaks that theme. It comes across as odd. In all the countries I've ever been to there's typically a theme of who is on the money.

I'm trying to figure out the theme, if there is one, where Tubman fits on the American bills.
 
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