Hate begets Hate: "Scholar" says Palestinian civilians are legimate targets because they voted in Hamas

[Loren Pechtel]

I wouldn't say it's unreliable, just very biased...

I tend to not believe that heavily biased news sources are reliable. It is inevitable that the bias affects the choice in what information is given and what interpretation can be made from the information, making the message unreliable.

No. A site can be selective in what it reports and yet report truthfully. You have to use such sources with care but that doesn't make them false.

In this case it's simply posting somebody else's work, the credibility or lack thereof of the site is irrelevant unless you're saying the material is faked. (And since they posted a followup on their own site I think this is very unlikely.)

 

[Shadowy Man]

No. A site can be selective in what it reports and yet report truthfully.

You are correct that it can. But from what I have seen they typically don't. (And certain "news" agencies have even justified in a court of law -- and won! -- the firing of certain members of their staff who refused to lie in a story on the basis that it is only a guideline that they report truthfully.)

And then you get into a situation where it's a "boy who cried wolf" kind of thing when you can never be sure which story is truthful reporting or not.

In this case it's simply posting somebody else's work, the credibility or lack thereof of the site is irrelevant unless you're saying the material is faked. (And since they posted a followup on their own site I think this is very unlikely.)

I have no comment about whether the material is faked, just that I didn't have the internet attention span to get past the first sentence of your link because it immediately demonstrated a significant bias. But I will admit that I am making no comment about the Indian news reporting, so I will lurk back into the shadows.

 

[Togo]

No. A site can be selective in what it reports and yet report truthfully. You have to use such sources with care but that doesn't make them false.

Weren't you saying that 99% of reporting in Gaza comes direct from Hamas?

 

[untermensche]

No. A site can be selective in what it reports and yet report truthfully. You have to use such sources with care but that doesn't make them false.

Weren't you saying that 99% of reporting in Gaza comes direct from Hamas?

His posts are valuable though.

They ape Israeli propaganda word for word.

One doesn't have to waste their time reading a lot of American media. It is simply an ape for Israeli propaganda as well.

 

[Togo]

Weren't you saying that 99% of reporting in Gaza comes direct from Hamas?

His posts are valuable though.

They ape Israeli propaganda word for word.

One doesn't have to waste their time reading a lot of American media. It is simply an ape for Israeli propaganda as well.

More to the point, he keeps the threads going. Without his contributions, the threads about Israel would get very dull, and people wouldn't be lining up to criticise Israel any more.

 

[untermensche]

His posts are valuable though.

They ape Israeli propaganda word for word.

One doesn't have to waste their time reading a lot of American media. It is simply an ape for Israeli propaganda as well.

More to the point, he keeps the threads going. Without his contributions, the threads about Israel would get very dull, and people wouldn't be lining up to criticise Israel any more.

This situation infuriates people. It's like watching some big bully beat up a child. And worse, kill the child.

Hard to watch.

And criticism lets off a little steam.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No. A site can be selective in what it reports and yet report truthfully. You have to use such sources with care but that doesn't make them false.

Weren't you saying that 99% of reporting in Gaza comes direct from Hamas?

Yeah--note that this news team waited until they were no longer in Gaza before reporting this.

- - - Updated - - -

More to the point, he keeps the threads going. Without his contributions, the threads about Israel would get very dull, and people wouldn't be lining up to criticise Israel any more.

This situation infuriates people. It's like watching some big bully beat up a child. And worse, kill the child.

Hard to watch.

And criticism lets off a little steam.

And sometimes it's the child attacking the older person.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Because of the very thing you see--when the IDF sends warning to get out they pack the roof with civilians instead. And this isn't a major HQ--those are in hospitals.

And the main manufacturing plants for rocket fuel are hidden in 1st grade classrooms. Their main strategic air defense center is in the playground out back, and their naval operations command post is in the bedroom closet of Ismail Abdullah's eight-year-old daughter (Abdullah himself is their chief of naval operations, hence the plastic toy boat in his bathtub). Damn you Hamas and your human shields!

If it didn't work they wouldn't do it.

According to the report, it didn't work.

Remember, 99% of reporting out of Gaza is basically straight from Hamas.

Unlikely, considering that even American journalists have documented the IDF's casual massacres. Even relatively balanced sources can't ignore them now.

Try again, you're not reading it right.

You're mixing up what the Israeli site added (including that "Hamasholes") with what the Indian report said.

Still waiting for someone to explain to me how it the Indian journalists managed to identify the militants as Hamas members. The report has other problems, of course (like why does a rocket launch on the western shore of Gaza leave a smoke trail pointing to the west?) but i prefer to start with the basics.

And sometimes it's the child attacking the older person.

And then the older person looses his temper and brutally murders that child in a fit of racial hatred.

And YOU will line up to defend that murder every single time.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If it didn't work they wouldn't do it.

According to the report, it didn't work.

The problem is you are defining "work" as "bring peace". Israel knows that's not going to happen, their goal is to stop the rockets. Smack Hamas around enough and the rockets stop for a while.

Remember, 99% of reporting out of Gaza is basically straight from Hamas.

Unlikely, considering that even American journalists have documented the IDF's casual massacres. Even relatively balanced sources can't ignore them now.

It doesn't matter that they are American. Reporters in Gaza who say things Hamas doesn't like might die.

Still waiting for someone to explain to me how it the Indian journalists managed to identify the militants as Hamas members. The report has other problems, of course (like why does a rocket launch on the western shore of Gaza leave a smoke trail pointing to the west?) but i prefer to start with the basics.

What makes you think the trail is heading west? All we see is smoke in the sky, you can't tell exactly where the rocket went.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

According to the report, it didn't work.

The problem is you are defining "work" as "bring peace".

No, I'm defining work exactly the way you did when you said "If it didn't work [by preventing the Israelis from bombing those targets] they wouldn't do it."

But Israel bombed them anyway. So obviously, it didn't work. What's also telling from this report is that Hamas didn't actually order those people onto the rooftops with the intention of hiding behind them. The people went up there on their own, hoping to dissuade the IDF from bombing them.

I don't suppose the IDF were expected to be greeted as liberators?

It doesn't matter that they are American. Reporters in Gaza who say things Hamas doesn't like might die.

I again point out that your imagination and bigotry are your sole sources for such claims and are not, at this point, particularly reputable.

What makes you think the trail is heading west?

Because a) that's the direction the fainter smoke trail is pointing and b) it sure as hell didn't go EAST, seeing how there's an eight-story building directly east of the launch site. Ashkelon is northwest (along the main street to the left of the frame) but that's not where the rocket is headed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem is you are defining "work" as "bring peace".

No, I'm defining work exactly the way you did when you said "If it didn't work [by preventing the Israelis from bombing those targets] they wouldn't do it."

But Israel bombed them anyway. So obviously, it didn't work. What's also telling from this report is that Hamas didn't actually order those people onto the rooftops with the intention of hiding behind them. The people went up there on their own, hoping to dissuade the IDF from bombing them.

It does work if they do it fast enough. Sometimes they don't.

It doesn't matter that they are American. Reporters in Gaza who say things Hamas doesn't like might die.

I again point out that your imagination and bigotry are your sole sources for such claims and are not, at this point, particularly reputable.

Check that Indian guy's report.

What makes you think the trail is heading west?

Because a) that's the direction the fainter smoke trail is pointing and b) it sure as hell didn't go EAST, seeing how there's an eight-story building directly east of the launch site. Ashkelon is northwest (along the main street to the left of the frame) but that's not where the rocket is headed.

Many rockets head north.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

It does work if they do it fast enough.

What are they supposed do, leap fifty feet into the air and divert the missiles with airbending???

Read the report again. The Palestinians gathered on the roof to protect their homes. Israel bombed them anyway. That has been Israel's stated policy from the outset of this conflict: they will ignore human shields and they will ignore any environmental or humanitarian considerations. The only thing the Palestinians can do to avoid being killed by the IDF is to Leave Gaza Entirely.

That is Israel's actual military policy now. If you are a Palestinian living in Gaza, are you a legitimate military target. Period.

 

[Jayjay]

It does work if they do it fast enough.

What are they supposed do, leap fifty feet into the air and divert the missiles with airbending???

Read the report again. The Palestinians gathered on the roof to protect their homes. Israel bombed them anyway. That has been Israel's stated policy from the outset of this conflict: they will ignore human shields and they will ignore any environmental or humanitarian considerations. The only thing the Palestinians can do to avoid being killed by the IDF is to Leave Gaza Entirely.

That is Israel's actual military policy now. If you are a Palestinian living in Gaza, are you a legitimate military target. Period.

Not everyone is a Wall Street Journal subscriber. We cannot "read the report again", if we have not read it the first time. The critical details are, when was this attack, did IDF comment on it in any way, how quickly did the people get to the roof, and so on.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It does work if they do it fast enough.

What are they supposed do, leap fifty feet into the air and divert the missiles with airbending???

Read the report again. The Palestinians gathered on the roof to protect their homes. Israel bombed them anyway. That has been Israel's stated policy from the outset of this conflict: they will ignore human shields and they will ignore any environmental or humanitarian considerations. The only thing the Palestinians can do to avoid being killed by the IDF is to Leave Gaza Entirely.

That is Israel's actual military policy now. If you are a Palestinian living in Gaza, are you a legitimate military target. Period.

Houses have been hit while people were heading for the roof. Where is a case of a house being hit after they got to the roof?

And the fighting hasn't involved all of Gaza.

 

[Arctish]

Houses have been hit while people were heading for the roof. Where is a case of a house being hit after they got to the roof?

And the fighting hasn't involved all of Gaza.

You didn't see the picture of people on a Gaza rooftop shortly before the IDF destroyed the house they were standing on? You're the one who posted it.

 

[Jayjay]

Houses have been hit while people were heading for the roof. Where is a case of a house being hit after they got to the roof?

And the fighting hasn't involved all of Gaza.

You didn't see the picture of people on a Gaza rooftop shortly before the IDF destroyed the house they were standing on? You're the one who posted it.

Where does it say that IDF destroyed the house in this particular picture?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

And the fighting hasn't involved all of Gaza.

Considering they hit gaza's only power plant, YES IT HAS.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Houses have been hit while people were heading for the roof. Where is a case of a house being hit after they got to the roof?

And the fighting hasn't involved all of Gaza.

You didn't see the picture of people on a Gaza rooftop shortly before the IDF destroyed the house they were standing on? You're the one who posted it.

Where's the evidence it was destroyed while full of people?

Remember, just because they abort one strike doesn't mean they won't try again later.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And the fighting hasn't involved all of Gaza.

Considering they hit gaza's only power plant, YES IT HAS.

Hamas fired from the power plant. The link where power comes in from Israel has also been down for a while because it was hit by Hamas fire and understandably the linemen don't want to fix it under fire.

Looks like Hamas doesn't want power in Gaza.

 

[untermensche]

Considering they hit gaza's only power plant, YES IT HAS.

Hamas fired from the power plant. The link where power comes in from Israel has also been down for a while because it was hit by Hamas fire and understandably the linemen don't want to fix it under fire.

Looks like Hamas doesn't want power in Gaza.

I suppose it is no wonder Israel tacitly supported Hamas and allowed Hamas to grow for all those years.

What a nice scapegoat it makes.