Hillary Clinton Reemerges

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

...and next article says...

Clinton really, really doesn’t like Bernie Sanders

Clinton’s disdain for Bernie Sanders is well documented, and she didn’t hold back when addressing her Democratic primary opponent at length in Hillary.

“Honestly, Bernie just drove me crazy,” she said. “He was in Congress for years. Years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him. Nobody wants to work with him. He got nothing done. He was a career politician. He didn’t work until he was like 41, and then he got elected to something. It was all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.”

Hillary also threw shade at Sanders in outlining what she feels is her own more pragmatic approach to politics. “I suffer from the responsibility gene,” she said when discussing why she didn’t support Sanders’ plan for tuition-free college. “I don’t like to say something that I know is not true. I don’t like to say I’m going to do something that I know is not doable. That is just anathema to me.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ary-hulu-documentary-series-takeaways-963119/

I am kind of confused by this stuff about debt-free college.

Here's The Atlantic:

Bernie Sanders has called for tuition-free college. Julián Castro has signaled support for it as well. Elizabeth Warren has pushed, for years, for “debt-free” college. Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, and Kirsten Gillibrand have signed on to legislation that could make college debt-free. Even Amy Klobuchar, who notably shirked “free college for all” during a CNN town hall in February, signed on to a metered free-college proposal last year.

All together, the field seems to have converged on a consensus: A free-college proposal—or an answer about why they don’t have one—is something of a prerequisite for Democratic candidates hoping to challenge Donald Trump in the 2020 election.

The consensus is long in the making: In 2008, the last time there was a large field of Democratic hopefuls, the proposals were more piecemeal. Many candidates pushed tax credits to offset college costs and suggested expanding grants for low-income students. Hillary Clinton suggested a national service program that would allow students to earn up to $10,000, which could be used toward education.

Over time, the ideas grew in ambition. By 2015, in his State of the Union address, President Barack Obama was saying that he wanted two years of community college to be “as free and universal in America as high school is today.” And in the last presidential election, in 2016, Hillary Clinton, who had originally said she believed “in affordable college, but [not] in free college,” was pushed by her primary opponent, Bernie Sanders, to embrace tuition-free college. Her ultimate acceptance of a free-college model ensured that it would be a feature of future Democratic platforms.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/02/2020-democrats-free-college/583585/

I don't necessarily trust what The Atlantic says because they made up the term Bernie Bro and may exaggerate stuff, but on the other hand, Hillary has changed her positions on various issues. So, how did she refine her view and how is that different from then?

 

[Politesse]

...and next article says...

Clinton really, really doesn’t like Bernie Sanders

Clinton’s disdain for Bernie Sanders is well documented, and she didn’t hold back when addressing her Democratic primary opponent at length in Hillary.

“Honestly, Bernie just drove me crazy,” she said. “He was in Congress for years. Years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him. Nobody wants to work with him. He got nothing done. He was a career politician. He didn’t work until he was like 41, and then he got elected to something. It was all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.”

Hillary also threw shade at Sanders in outlining what she feels is her own more pragmatic approach to politics. “I suffer from the responsibility gene,” she said when discussing why she didn’t support Sanders’ plan for tuition-free college. “I don’t like to say something that I know is not true. I don’t like to say I’m going to do something that I know is not doable. That is just anathema to me.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ary-hulu-documentary-series-takeaways-963119/

I am kind of confused by this stuff about debt-free college.

Here's The Atlantic:

Bernie Sanders has called for tuition-free college. Julián Castro has signaled support for it as well. Elizabeth Warren has pushed, for years, for “debt-free” college. Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, and Kirsten Gillibrand have signed on to legislation that could make college debt-free. Even Amy Klobuchar, who notably shirked “free college for all” during a CNN town hall in February, signed on to a metered free-college proposal last year.

All together, the field seems to have converged on a consensus: A free-college proposal—or an answer about why they don’t have one—is something of a prerequisite for Democratic candidates hoping to challenge Donald Trump in the 2020 election.

The consensus is long in the making: In 2008, the last time there was a large field of Democratic hopefuls, the proposals were more piecemeal. Many candidates pushed tax credits to offset college costs and suggested expanding grants for low-income students. Hillary Clinton suggested a national service program that would allow students to earn up to $10,000, which could be used toward education.

Over time, the ideas grew in ambition. By 2015, in his State of the Union address, President Barack Obama was saying that he wanted two years of community college to be “as free and universal in America as high school is today.” And in the last presidential election, in 2016, Hillary Clinton, who had originally said she believed “in affordable college, but [not] in free college,” was pushed by her primary opponent, Bernie Sanders, to embrace tuition-free college. Her ultimate acceptance of a free-college model ensured that it would be a feature of future Democratic platforms.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/02/2020-democrats-free-college/583585/

I don't necessarily trust what The Atlantic says because they made up the term Bernie Bro and may exaggerate stuff, but on the other hand, Hillary has changed her positions on various issues. So, how did she refine her view and how is that different from then?

But people are so mean to Hillary, criticizing her when she slanders her colleagues.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I guess the other bit to look at is this part:

He was in Congress for years. Years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him. Nobody wants to work with him.

There's a lot packed in here. Yes, he was in Congress for years, but to be clear he was a representative for many of the years and later a senator.

He had quite a few congress people support his candidacy. He had only 1 active senator support him but also a couple of former senators. Taking a look at his vast support and choosing to only list 1 senator, while ignoring all the representatives and others, is cherry-picking. It might or might not be deliberate.

Bernie in 2016 was actually very popular. It isn't true that nobody liked him. His popularity was probably better than Hillary's because the right-wing media had been attacking her for decades.

Now, it should also be mentioned that whether or not he could work with others on legislation doesn't logically imply he failed a popularity contest. He had a clear ideological difference from the moderate/centrist wing of the DP. Bernie has been a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and they work together to get stuff passed. Hillary was a member of the DLC and Third Way. So it's naturally harder to get stuff passed on the outside of the distribution than it is as a centrist. It's an ideological artifact, not necessarily an artifact of a popularity contest. Likewise, it might not even make sense to create bills constantly you know are going to fail because some of your positions are outside the center. You may want to concentrate on less bills and making alliances, helping to get reform bills passed that centrists suggest when they are good, and make amendments to those as much as you can in your direction.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Missed this one:

On Wednesday's "Tonight Show" with host Jimmy Fallon, 2016 presidential candidate Hillary Clinton tossed a token with a 2020 Democratic presidential candidate's name on it in a bit called "Bag of Secrets." As the title implies, Clinton picked presidential candidate names, prior and present, out of a bag and shared something about them without actually revealing their name.

"Woah," a surprised Fallon said after Clinton threw the card behind her.

"Wow. What was -- these are all the candidates, including," Fallon continued before stopping himself.

"People who were in, still are in," Clinton said.

"People who are current," Clinton clarified.

After she described every other major candidate, it became clear that the card she threw was Bernie Sanders or Tulsi Gabbard, two people she has made clear she is not fond of.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...andidate_she_doesnt_like_on_tonight_show.html

 

[PyramidHead]

BREAKING: CLINTON ENDORSES BERNIE SANDERS FOR DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION

 

[Toni]

...and next article says...


https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ary-hulu-documentary-series-takeaways-963119/

I am kind of confused by this stuff about debt-free college.

Here's The Atlantic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/02/2020-democrats-free-college/583585/

I don't necessarily trust what The Atlantic says because they made up the term Bernie Bro and may exaggerate stuff, but on the other hand, Hillary has changed her positions on various issues. So, how did she refine her view and how is that different from then?

But people are so mean to Hillary, criticizing her when she slanders her colleagues.

It's not slander if it's true.

 

[Keith&Co.]

...and next article says...


https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ary-hulu-documentary-series-takeaways-963119/

I am kind of confused by this stuff about debt-free college.

Here's The Atlantic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/02/2020-democrats-free-college/583585/

I don't necessarily trust what The Atlantic says because they made up the term Bernie Bro and may exaggerate stuff, but on the other hand, Hillary has changed her positions on various issues. So, how did she refine her view and how is that different from then?

But people are so mean to Hillary, criticizing her when she slanders her colleagues.

It's not slander if it's true.

It's not slander if you can PROVE it's true.
But then, it's also not slander if she didn't actually say what her critics are accusing her of saying, so it may be a wash.

 

[Toni]

I guess the other bit to look at is this part:

He was in Congress for years. Years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him. Nobody wants to work with him.

There's a lot packed in here. Yes, he was in Congress for years, but to be clear he was a representative for many of the years and later a senator.

He had quite a few congress people support his candidacy. He had only 1 active senator support him but also a couple of former senators. Taking a look at his vast support and choosing to only list 1 senator, while ignoring all the representatives and others, is cherry-picking. It might or might not be deliberate.

Bernie in 2016 was actually very popular. It isn't true that nobody liked him. His popularity was probably better than Hillary's because the right-wing media had been attacking her for decades.

Now, it should also be mentioned that whether or not he could work with others on legislation doesn't logically imply he failed a popularity contest. He had a clear ideological difference from the moderate/centrist wing of the DP. Bernie has been a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and they work together to get stuff passed. Hillary was a member of the DLC and Third Way. So it's naturally harder to get stuff passed on the outside of the distribution than it is as a centrist. It's an ideological artifact, not necessarily an artifact of a popularity contest. Likewise, it might not even make sense to create bills constantly you know are going to fail because some of your positions are outside the center. You may want to concentrate on less bills and making alliances, helping to get reform bills passed that centrists suggest when they are good, and make amendments to those as much as you can in your direction.

Within Congress, Sanders was popular in 2016? Got some links?

I think that Clinton has some good points. Sanders has not actually accomplished much during his tenure as senator. Sure, he got the young folks all riled up for change--but not enough to actually....vote. Tweet? Sure.

I like how you are advocating for the pragmatism of the more centrist approach: incremental rather than burning the place down. That's what I liked about the more centrist candidates in the primaries. What I like about Warren is that she has a good record of accomplishments to go along with a progressive agenda.

 

[PyramidHead]

I guess the other bit to look at is this part:

He was in Congress for years. Years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him. Nobody wants to work with him.

There's a lot packed in here. Yes, he was in Congress for years, but to be clear he was a representative for many of the years and later a senator.

He had quite a few congress people support his candidacy. He had only 1 active senator support him but also a couple of former senators. Taking a look at his vast support and choosing to only list 1 senator, while ignoring all the representatives and others, is cherry-picking. It might or might not be deliberate.

Bernie in 2016 was actually very popular. It isn't true that nobody liked him. His popularity was probably better than Hillary's because the right-wing media had been attacking her for decades.

Now, it should also be mentioned that whether or not he could work with others on legislation doesn't logically imply he failed a popularity contest. He had a clear ideological difference from the moderate/centrist wing of the DP. Bernie has been a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and they work together to get stuff passed. Hillary was a member of the DLC and Third Way. So it's naturally harder to get stuff passed on the outside of the distribution than it is as a centrist. It's an ideological artifact, not necessarily an artifact of a popularity contest. Likewise, it might not even make sense to create bills constantly you know are going to fail because some of your positions are outside the center. You may want to concentrate on less bills and making alliances, helping to get reform bills passed that centrists suggest when they are good, and make amendments to those as much as you can in your direction.

Within Congress, Sanders was popular in 2016? Got some links?

I think that Clinton has some good points. Sanders has not actually accomplished much during his tenure as senator. Sure, he got the young folks all riled up for change--but not enough to actually....vote. Tweet? Sure.

I like how you are advocating for the pragmatism of the more centrist approach: incremental rather than burning the place down. That's what I liked about the more centrist candidates in the primaries. What I like about Warren is that she has a good record of accomplishments to go along with a progressive agenda.

Like voting for Trump's war budget?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I guess the other bit to look at is this part:

He was in Congress for years. Years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him. Nobody wants to work with him.

There's a lot packed in here. Yes, he was in Congress for years, but to be clear he was a representative for many of the years and later a senator.

He had quite a few congress people support his candidacy. He had only 1 active senator support him but also a couple of former senators. Taking a look at his vast support and choosing to only list 1 senator, while ignoring all the representatives and others, is cherry-picking. It might or might not be deliberate.

Bernie in 2016 was actually very popular. It isn't true that nobody liked him. His popularity was probably better than Hillary's because the right-wing media had been attacking her for decades.

Now, it should also be mentioned that whether or not he could work with others on legislation doesn't logically imply he failed a popularity contest. He had a clear ideological difference from the moderate/centrist wing of the DP. Bernie has been a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and they work together to get stuff passed. Hillary was a member of the DLC and Third Way. So it's naturally harder to get stuff passed on the outside of the distribution than it is as a centrist. It's an ideological artifact, not necessarily an artifact of a popularity contest. Likewise, it might not even make sense to create bills constantly you know are going to fail because some of your positions are outside the center. You may want to concentrate on less bills and making alliances, helping to get reform bills passed that centrists suggest when they are good, and make amendments to those as much as you can in your direction.

Within Congress, Sanders was popular in 2016? Got some links?

from my post:

He had quite a few congress people support his candidacy. He had only 1 active senator support him but also a couple of former senators. Taking a look at his vast support and choosing to only list 1 senator, while ignoring all the representatives and others, is cherry-picking. It might or might not be deliberate.

Current:
Jeff Merkley, OR

Former:
Mike Gravel, AK (1969–1981)
Paul G. Kirk, MA (2009–2010)
Don Riegle, MI (1976–1995)

U.S. Representatives:

Tulsi Gabbard

Keith Ellison, MN
Tulsi Gabbard, HI
Alan Grayson, FL
Raúl Grijalva, AZ
Marcy Kaptur, OH
Peter Welch, VT
Rick Nolan, MN

Brad Miller, NC (2003–2013)

So it is cherry-picking to just list the 1 current Senator. It is also fallacious reasoning to claim the reason why was because "nobody likes him." There are probably many factors. One would be that he registers as a Democrat for election purposes and then becomes an Independent. Party establishment is very afraid of splintering the party or people being led off somewhere else such as the Green Party.

Also, from my post:

Bernie in 2016 was actually very popular. It isn't true that nobody liked him. His popularity was probably better than Hillary's because the right-wing media had been attacking her for decades.

Bernie had a 57% favorability rating among people in 2017:
https://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/bernie-sanders-favorable-rating

Hillary was less than 50% in same time period which you can see from the graph at this link:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/224330/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating-new-low.aspx

 

[Elixir]

...and next article says...


https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ary-hulu-documentary-series-takeaways-963119/

I am kind of confused by this stuff about debt-free college.

Here's The Atlantic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/02/2020-democrats-free-college/583585/

I don't necessarily trust what The Atlantic says because they made up the term Bernie Bro and may exaggerate stuff, but on the other hand, Hillary has changed her positions on various issues. So, how did she refine her view and how is that different from then?

But people are so mean to Hillary, criticizing her when she slanders her colleagues.

Yeah! She waited patiently in line for when it was her rightful turn to slander her colleagues!